Building rods for popping and jigging.

[Earl Hamilton]

Hi Guys.
I figured this should be the place to ask some questions in regards to making our weapons the acme of our armory. My question is this-what are the best components and fittings for each blank type in their respective fields for given cicumstances and requirements-Your thoughts please !!!

I have recently bought a one piece Jigging Master 400g Terminator blank, a 2 piece Seed GT-F76P, 7'6" PE 3-6 popping rod blank, and a  1 piece Calstar GF700H, 7' 30-80lbs.

Why this choice ? Partly because of whats available, and partly because of the demands of the local waters. I'll present each  blank  as a case independently.
The constant in each case is that I am 6' 5" tall and 290 lbs in weight- yup, I played the number eight position prop in rugby for a few years.

The Situations and cicumstances
For jigging I go for an overhead configuration with Avets loaded with 50-80lbs Suffix Performance braid  . We generally use 200-500g jigs in 120-250 meters depth of water, AJs, Dogtooth, oil fish and scabbard fish, are the more usual hookups, along with sharks spanierds and wahoo. We dont know how big these get here as most of the waters are unexplored at these depths.
Popping is standard spinning set up for smaller GT up to about 20kg as thats usually fairly big for the Philippines, but this is really an unexplored situation, and the biggest gt reported here that I have reliably heard of was one of 191lbs or 86.7kg to a spear fisherman. It does happen that fish are hooked and the angler gets spooled, and it happened to me with a seen GT that looked the size of a barn door in the water-I was trolling at the time.
Then we have the yellowfin here, and I chose the Calstar primarily for that, but I haven't really decided if for jigging or popping, but I think the bias leads more to general and jigging at the moment. Yellowfin here can get over 500lbs if the photo of a commercially caught fish was correct , but more usually 40-150lbs, and a few places get the 200lb+ cows.

The Line of Set Ups
So for jigging with the Jigging Master Terminator 400g PE4-8, I have opted for a Split butt using the JM rod balancer (a pretty spacer), matching JM gimble, Fuji palm trigger reel seat 16" from gimble, matching JM aluminium spacer ramp, 7" foregrip of tapered hypalon, and a JM aluminium winding check. Thats the grip set up. Choice of guides are the Fuji MNSG Sic's, 20, 16, 12, 12, 10, 10, 10, 10, tip Sic MNST10/4mm tube. Diamond wraps and weaves add cosmetics and a bit of weight, but the guides will be underwrapped and double overwrapped. An option for guides would be the Alps 316 stainless zirconia's as these may be a bit stronger, but I have never handled them, only seen them in pics.
I have not metioned the spacing for the guides, because I have not worked that out yet, and someone may come out with some imformation that would throw a spanner in the works, so I will wait and see, but I would normally follow the Fuji "Concept arrangement with adjustment according to the blanks bending curve in action and line touching the blank or foregrip !
The JM bling bits ( matching aluminium gimble, balancer, spacer reel seat ramp, and winding check) are for decoration more than anything and to my mind may have some disadvatages, especially the ramp and winding check-that these could slice up your hands during battle in a hard grip.

For the Seed 7'6" PE3-6 Popper, I've gone for the split grip again with a Fuji graphite gimble. Standard Fuji De Lux 22mm ID spinning reel seat, and an 8" tapered foregrip.  The grips are Hypalon-There's no more room as the handle is only 31 inches long. The guides are the Fuji ICMNSG Sic's, 40, 25, 20, 16, 12, 12, and an ICMNST12/3.2mm tube for the tip. Guides again will be underwrapped and double overwrapped-same here, I have not worked out the spacing, but the "concept thing would follow. Here too I will embellish with Diamond wraps and weaves.

The Calstar GF700H 30-80lbs I figure will be more usefull as a general yoyo/casting jig stick for overhead with the Avets JX6.4. Ali gimble, full length 12" tapered rear grip, Alps 22mm Channel Lock reel seat, 14" trianglular foregrip, and the guides Fuji silicon nitride II CHBNG 25, 20, 16, 12, 12, 10, 10, 10, tip CHNNT10/3.2mm tube. Here too, all the embelishment of diamond wraps and weaves. The guides underwrapped and double overwrapped.

I also have a 5'6" Sabre GT5080. This is a beastly poker that appears to have the grunt to handle the big yellowfins if they turn up when I'm out on the water. Butt set up as the Calstar. I'll be using a TLD30 2speed loaded with 80lb braid on it. The guides I have opted for are the Fuji RSG three legged Sics, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 10, and probably Aftco roller tip. All the wrapping bells and whistles again, with the guides underwrapped and triple overwrapped

All rods finished in size "A" NCP Gudebrod throughout, no colour preserver, and varnished with Flexcoat.

The purpose of this thread is to bring out the opinions of the members here for us to expose shortcommings in rod designs (and mine) and to scrutinise their components in the diferrent fields of application so that we can all benefit from each others views and experience.
I will add that I do have these blanks and the components here just waiting to be put together. They represent my chice for the variouse applications I have mentioned. The diamond wraps and weaves, I do because I can, and are only for me to enjoy the work I do on them. Then I saw this opportunity to learn from the experience of others here and to give us all the benefit of learning from this project that I'm doing.
Go ahead give us your thoughts, experience, constructive scrutiny and critisism here. I'm sure this will help us all in our future choice of purchases, as I think there is a lot to expose here in each discipline that we practise in the fields of exteme popping and jigging.

Cheers guys.
Earl.

[Luke Wyrsta]

[Earl Hamilton]

Hi Luke,
There we go, already some interesting thoughts that differ. The popping rod has got the ICMNSG, but down to a 12, which I feel is adequate for the knots- I will elaborate more when my computor is back. The JM jig stick also has the Sic guides same pattern as the ICMNSG, but gunsmoke finnish, and the guide set up is for overhead configuration, so would not need a 40 stripper.
 I have computer problems so difficult to keep up for a few days untill I get the thing repaired. Once its back I will be able to elaborate more to give posts full attention.

[Earl Hamilton]

[Luke Wyrsta]

Earl,

Thanks for the info.

I didn't make the guide spacing suggestion for the popping rod - i did for a jigging rod.

I wasn't aware that your setup was going to be overhead - sorry.

As for knots - have you done popping before and seen how big a knot with a 200lb shock leader can be? These bulky knots have been known to destroy guide inserts completely. 10 is too small in my opinion.

Good luck Earl

[Brandon Khoo]

Earl - I finally went and pulled out all my jigging rods to check what size guides I had on them. I'm with Luke on this - 10 is too small. I only have one jigging rod with guides this small on them and I've had problems with this rod in the past from knots etc. Conversely, the Smiths have big guides all the way through and this is very convenient. I also have a new JM Monster and the smallest guide on this is a 16 - which looks about the right size. It just gives you more flexibility in terms of what you can reel through.

I appreciate that the SEED is a thin blank but if you can get away with the 12, I'd suggest you do it. the 10 is simply too small. Provided the blanks is of a diameter where it can support the guide, I can see nothing but advanatges in opting for a bigger guide.

[Cam Foley]

Hey Brandon hoe does your JM monster go they are on special here in NZ at the moment thinking of getting one,is it true they will lift a 30kg dead wait.

[Brandon Khoo]

Cam, you might have read a previous post of mine where I questioned the ability of some of the Japanese jigging rods to handle their stated line classes. To me, I doubted whether you could really load up on some of these. I've got a beautiful rod which will remain unnamed and which si supposed the be good for PE8 but i doubt I would ever fish more than PE6 on it.

What I wanted was a jigging rod for monster classes of fish where I could simply grit my teeth and load it up to the absolute max of my ability (which is probably still pretty wimpy)

I haven't used the rod yet but i got one on the recommendation of a friend who is one of the best jiggers I know. He has fished them extensively and reserves the monster for when he is really after monster class fish.

[Cam Foley]

Im sold must ring Mr Wong pronto

[Earl Hamilton]

Hi, Brandon, Cam, Luke, and all,
Thanks for the input here. I am still having problems with the computer, so the thing is in and out of the shop on warranty, otherwise I would get the repair done elsewhere.
I was out on a 3 day jaunt last weekend with a buch of guys who had just about the whole gamut from Smiths and Carpenters down to Tica. Gave them all the once over. We actually hooked a small marlin on an orange jig !!!~the lucky guy was using his Smith, cant remember the model, but it had a low rider stripper-the end rings on that where 12's, as were the majority of the overhead jig rods. This bunch of guys are very into Japanese tackle, and to be honest they are pretty well informed by their Japanese freinds. The Japanese tackle is fine, light, cutting edge and beautiful, but it appears there is some space for utility and practicality. Also, this stuff is for the smaller Asian stature to be more comfortable with in use.
So, for my JM 400g I've already got the 10s-I think I will be ok as for here there is not much need for heavy duty and most of my jigging is done with 3-5 PE, and our leaders are 100-150Fc. I use the bimini double in the braid with an Albright to the leader so my Knots are relatively small-I'm very used to these knots, and have confidence in them. I do look forward to getting some action this stick though !
The Seed popping rod however is a different case-I'm willing at this stage to back the theory of line control assisting in the elimination of knot entaglement and smoother knot passage, thus allowing me to use a 12 on the end, despite the big knot in the leader, and here again I tend to use the Bimini/Albright combo (familiarity), but I do twist the double in the bimini. the really big knot is the leader to bite tippet-I try to keep that out of the rings altogether.
In use, my only experience is with an 8'3" Pioneer popping rod, and this rod finishes with a 16. The guide set up is bloody aweful giving me plenty "wind knots" to deal with, and these only happen when I open up and wind in some power to the cast. It has 6 guides plus tip, starting with a 40-but it lobs ok and will handle average bread and butter fish ok.
Whatever happens with these rods I,m building, I will be sure to let you know how they get on in use.

[Brandon Khoo]

There is no real right or wrong in this, Earl. People offer their comments based on their experiences. The Japanese jiggign rods are beautifully made but i agree with your comments.

About the only other suggestion I would have for you would be to reconsider the PE to leader knot you use for popping. You'll find few experienced popper fishermen who use a bimimi/albright combination. The reason for this is the knot is not regarded as the best for casting as it just gets bulky especially with a heavy leader. It is a not a particualrly smooth knot either and will have a higher incidence of catching in the guides which is not something you want when you are heaving a 150 to 200g lure. You may find that the reason why you're getting a lot of wind knots may be because of the knot you'e using and is little to do with the rod.

Most of us use either a twisted leader/bimimi attachment via a catspaw or a single strand of P to leader knot like a FG or a midknot.

[Cam Foley]

Hi Earl do the jigging dudes you went out with really have a TICA we had a coupple over here and they were rated 37kg and as thin as a pencil we broke one clean in half before the drag even went,with the drag set at 8kg, just curious on what they thought of them.I must say TICA came to the party and gave us our money back the other rod we gave away and said to the bloke not to put to much drag on it ,5kg max.

[Earl Hamilton]

 Hi Guys,
Brandon, I could not agree more with you for my knot. I suppose I'm lazey with it really and comfortable with the bimini/albright combo as I use it so much in fly fishing-but true the Albright has a nasty step going the rong way that can catch in rings-with the Pioneer it usually catches at the stripper, or the 4th ring up. I really must get round to using the FG !!!
Cam-Ticas ? Ticas here are the mainstay of rods and reels, mostly due to their freindly price and are considered by most locals as top end (?????)  It should also be understood that a $500 rod could put your life in danger as it could be considered worth killing you for ! A good set up would cost almost as much as a house in some areas here. So there is an element of personal security that does not normally enter the equasion in ones choice of tackle for local fishing. Dont get me wrong your normally perfectly safe most of the time and harm would only come in extreme cases, however it is a real possibility here. Apart from that the average fish is probably less than a kilo so it does not really tax equipment and force them upscale-Local anglers have to progress from the local market once they've got the bug, and if they have the money, then they will move up the scale in terms of tackle only if they get serious-so there are few of them. The Ticas on our trip were infact glass 20-30lb rubber band type bottom rods that are made for the local market and cost about $30 US. They really rate the Tica 458 reels though, and even the Japs and Taiwanese are happy enough with them, they also rate the Tica Taurus too. Some certainly have the enthusiasm-One poor guy with us was using a tica set up loaded with nylon fishing 400g jigs in 700feet of water. He lasted a few hours before putting bait on the bottom. A 600m spool of  braid here is more than a weeks salary for a young professional.
On the upside, things are improving here for fishing, and the market is slowly moving in the right direction-this last trip would have been impossible here five years ago !!

[Cam Foley]

I see where do you live? sounds like west Aukland

[Earl Hamilton]

Philippines-a beautiful place in parts. Its paradise with a flip side !