Hammerhead stickbaits

[Andrew Poulos]

Hammerhead have some nice looking stickbaits out now. Anyone seen them in the flesh ? I dont need any more , but they look ok. If only I could get kings on them off the stones 

[Angus Hulme]

Haven't seen them in the flesh, but from those pics, they look superficially similar in terms of design and finish to Nomad Dogtooth stickbaits. I suspect they will be a bit more costly than the Nomad lures though.  Probably the same (IMO - excessive) price tag as Hammerhead poppers? 

[Brock Arifovic]

Angus,

If you have a look at the link below you will find that Australian Angling has opened an on-line store & the prices are considerably cheaper than in the shops, making them more affordable for everyone. The new Hammerhead stickbaits should be with Australian Angling very soon for everyone to buy, apart from the stickbaits "ALL" Hammerhead lures are now cheaper via Australia Angling.

Take a look.

http://australianangling.ezimerchant.biz/category10_1.htm

[Angus Hulme]

G'day Brock,

Thanks for that.....certainly some lovely looking lures on there.

While Hammerheads are obviously very well made, beautifully finished, and have a proven reputation for catching fish, I still think they are overpriced, even at the prices listed on the Australian Angling site you linked to.

Throwing $100+ lures at a species of fish that is known to be one of the dirtiest fighters swimming is, to me, a little crazy. Additionally, I have seen 1st hand how cheaper and less refined products can be equally effective in terms of attracting fish. Of course, this is just my opinion, and I understand that if money is no object for an angler, then that's fine too....use whatever effective lures available, regardless of price. 

Having said that, it doesn't address why I think Hammerhead (and some others) lures are overpriced. I'll attempt to explain that now (based on lots of assumptions on my part ):

I should start by saying I don't have in-depth knowledge about how lure manufacturers set their prices, but I'm assuming the justification of high-end lure makers to price their products highly is based on whether the products are said to be 'handcrafted' and hand finished. This "handcrafted" idea is a grey area open to debate, I reckon. Can a lure be classed as 'handcrafted' if it's mass produced? If so, how? If a lure is said to be "handcrafted", this gives the impression that the effort put into producing each unit is high. But if the item was mass produced, then the effort-per-unit would be low and this would render the "handcrafted" claim somewhat misleading. Making any sense here? 

I am (again!) assuming that Hammerheads are manufactured in the same way as (for eg.) Nomad/Heru lures are, so why then are Hammerheads double the price? If they are manufactured differently, then I'd love to hear how the Hammerheads are actually made and finished, so I can get a better appreciation for the effort-per-unit cost. It seems to me that if lure manufacturers tell us their products are hand made in Japan, they automatically have the right to jack the prices up through the roof.

Of course it could just boil down to what anglers are prepared to pay, and there's obviously plenty of anglers who ARE prepared to pay $100 for one lure. No dramas there.....I just aint one of 'em!

But if anyone has got any comments on the various issues raised, like lure pricing, manufacturing techniques, or simply ones' own justifications for purchasing lures, then please do contribute.

Cheers
Angus

[Colin P]

I suspect that the price of "high end" lures is a reflection of the R&D that goes into their design as much as the quality of finish. Of course, once somebody else has done the R&D, it's pretty easy to produce lookalike products that resemble "the real thing" and, given access to cheap labour, also pretty easy to keep the price down.

That said, from a consumer viewpoint, the two driving factors are -

- does it work (which equals do I need it)

- does it look great (which equals do I want it).

We fishermen are notorious for paying as much attention to the second criteria as to the first - I am no exception to this rule!!

And that's why there will always be a market for things that work and look good - as well as things that simply work.

[Hon-Su Chin]

dont forget these lures are imported....meaning once landed, there's import duty, GST, customs processing fees and so forth. It is endless. Shipping fees are fairly high from places as far as Japan. All those "extras" amalgamated in the wholesale price, then the retailers' margins. Hence the high costs. That will include anything, from reels, rods, braid to many other imported accessories.

[Brandon Khoo]

One very simple reason is the level of design work and testing that goes into an OEM. A lot of the cheaper lures you see around the shops have barely been tested before being released to the market and are simply copies of someone else's hard work. I've seen models that sink when they are supposed to float and vice versa. I can't speak for Hammerhead (although they have one of the best GT anglers in the sport as their tester) as I don't know the company well but I can with regard to Carpenter where I have seen Konishi's commitment first hand and of course, Fullscale where I'm the lure tester.

Fullscales haven't become the popper of choice for big fish in New Caledonia today by chance. It's come from a lure manufacturer who has been prepared to work his arse off in getting the lure right. We went though so many prototypes including testing the lures with different weight at the back with different hooks. The prototype was changed and changed and then changed again and I am sure there were times when he wanted to punch me out after I gave him my feedback. I lost count of the number of prototypes before we got the lure to what we were really happy with.

Two days ago, I was astounded to see a copy of the Fullscale in Singapore under the White Rabbit label. It really is quite galling to see this.

When you buy one of these or a Hammerhead or a Carpenter or a Craftbait, you're paying for the effort that has gone into getting the lure to what it is. It's a lure that has been proven time and time again before release.

[Peter Morris]

 .....Doesnt take long..!!!.....Chris's Lures have been copied already...

Jesus....thats very ordinary...

Pete

[Jon Li]

If the product is trully Made In Japan then we can accept it's going to be expensive but if the product is genuine Japanese brand but made elsewhere outside Japan then we should expect more reasonable price , the worst are brands with Japanese name but in reality made elsewhere to trick the buyers into thinking they are buying Japanese products >

Jon . 

[Chris Young]

Two days ago, I was astounded to see a copy of the Fullscale in Singapore under the White Rabbit label. It really is quite galling to see this.

When you buy one of these or a Hammerhead or a Carpenter or a Craftbait, you're paying for the effort that has gone into getting the lure to what it is. It's a lure that has been proven time and time again before release.

Well I suppose it was going to happen sooner or later, I see it more as a sign of the lures success. You can be assured that the copies will not perform or last the same as original Full Scales.

As Brandon pointed out so well, there were times during the development stages that I was allmost ready to throw the towell in.

Now as for the costing, I was very fortunate that Brandon offered to be tester for my lures, could you imagine the cost involved in testing in all the locations needed only to find they needed to be changed  (yet again) This process went on for 2 years I am also sure this process will be ongoing, eg : my lures are now fitted with belly swivels rated at 540kg, not because one has ever failed, rather because I want to make them the best I can with the best materials available

I make all of my lures myself, each lure has about 2 hours work plus materials and overhead cost (machinery etc). Then you have to source and grade materials, I use only the very best available. Now allow for waste and general stuff ups and rejects (rejects are what I get to fish with ). Even basic things like setting up and maintaining the website need to be factored in.   After all of those costs the retailers need to get a % to make it worthwhile for them.

I am willing to bet my "sporting nut" that most of you who fish for GT would not work for the hourly rate I am on! Sure I could go down the same road and mass produce for a quick buck, but, in the end I value my integrity, and I take pride in knowing I make Full Scales as good as they can be.

In the end I think if there is no-one willing to lead the way in designs etc (original manufacturers) then there will be no copies, no market and no innovation.................go back to fishing with bait and hand line, or a spear

Speaking of spears, Brandon, where do I find the White Rabbit

[AustralianAngling]

Just returned from China Fish Show myself. There was at least 4 companies selling the copies we see here in Australia, even a Japanese based company buying the timber cutouts from China and taking back to Japan to paint better they told me.
If you take any notice none of these lures that you can currently buy from one of Australia's larger tackle store groups have any tail weight or internal weight system they just have a alloy cap on the rear, they are not balanced so sit incorrectly in the water, work poorly and cast like crap.
Also material used is much lighter, softer and cheaper, swivels cheaper, wire cheaper, quality cheaper. Sure they will catch a few so will anything you chuck out there but I prefer to use something proven so I am not waisting my time and getting sore arms for nothing.

[Brandon Khoo]

the White Rabbit is not at all well constructed. While the lure is not identical, it is very clear what they have tried to copy and they haven't done it well. The worst part is the wiring where they seem to have wanted to copy the characteristics of the Full Scales but it is not good! I don't think they are going to be a problem as I can't see anyone who buys your lures for what they are being interested in looking at these.

[Chris Young]

Back to the original question about HammerHead Stickbait, I was given one of the larger ones, 85g. It looks to be the right thing for Kingies etc. It also has a very similar shape to the one I have been working on for the last couple of months, I would call it uncanny actually that we were both thinking on the same lines. I know for sure that they never saw my shape and I was unaware of they're one. They just beat me to the finish line.
For me this means back to the drawing board to come up with an original design, just to add another dimension to the costing

[Andrew Poulos]

Chris, look forward to seeing some of your stickbaits that could be used on kings ! Not much luck on sticks yet for them but matter of time....

[Peter Morris]

Surprising you cant nail one on a stick Andrew.

Considering there have been some substantial captures around Sydney on poppers, you would think they would love a stickbait.

You had any follows..?

Pete