FG and PR Knots

[Gareth Branicki]

Thanks for all the previous help on twisted leaders grabbed some black magic for practicing using 2 methods one with powerdrill when my wife is in a good mood and the other by looping it around a metal post in the backyard and and tying to the bail of a spinning reel doing  alright also thanks for the photos somewhere on the forum in regards to the braid join and making sure the braid doesn't bunch up at the top of the loop.   One coment i got in my twisted leaders post was to learn single knot connections.
I am fine with the pr knot but i am wondring how short i can realistically get away with in terms of lenght of the wrapped part and the overall length as i would like to cast this through the guides without fear that it will take a guide out.  Can it be used inside the guides or only outside .

I have tried repeatedly to tie the fg knot watched heaps of utube etc till nearly going insane,  i have small hands and they are not very dextrous as for the vids that show the wrist twising method i am hopless. considered getting the ezy knotter but tend to only  trust knots ive tied by hand myself wether a bimini improved allbright uni  double uni etc can do all of these on the rocks without even thinking but the fg knot has got me stumped if anybody lives in brisbane or knows where i can get a good demonstation of this knot would be great as i'm so close to throwing the towel in after over a year of playing wth this particular knot 
cheers
gareth

[Peter Childs]

Gareth, have a chat to Doug Lindsay, he can show you the basic technique.  Then open a bottle wine and practice, practice, practice - you'll have it nailed before you know it. 

They still take a little time to tie (a bit longer than a double uni - and youl need to carry a lighter) but the results are well worth the effort.

And yes, you are doing all this, so they can go through the guides.

[Chris Young]

An easy way to make twisted leaders on your own:
1.  Big overhand loop in 100lb mono to put over trailer hitch or similar anchor point
2.  pull out about 6m of line and cut, put this end in the drill chuck.
3.  Twist single strand of mono until you feel it shorten by about a foot, usually takes about 30-40 sec on high speed. Make sure you keep the line under reasonable tension so it doesn't twist yet.
4.  Now with the drill in hand still connected to the line double it around another anchor point, I use a screw driver in a rod holder on the boat. Keep the tension on not twisting yet.
5.  Grab the loop off the trailer hitch and put it on the handle of the power drill so you now have the line doubled over the screwdriver and both ends on the drill but appart by about 6 inches.
6.  Put the drill on the floor, make sure the line doesn't twist yet until you can take the loop end off the screwdriver
7.  Carefully let the line start to twist back towards the drill
8.  Tie a granny knot in the drill end and it is done. you can then do 4 strand bite section by hand

This sounds complicated but it is a lot easier than typing it out and it will produce a nice tight leader, give it a go

FG is not a difficult knot but it's much easier to learn if shown, and there's lots of ways to do it!

[Gareth Branicki]

Thanks for the replies peter i will give doug a bell and see when on a weekend his got a small bit of time to run through it with me . Chris thanks for the extra help with the twisties  defiantly give that a go
cheers gareth

[Greg Burt]

I'm now into a hybrid 'Sebile' and 'FG' knot, have a look at the Sebile knot on You-Tube and do the cross-wraps that way from the rod tip, then finish with the half hitches as a normal FG knot.

How to tie a Sebile Knot by Jay Withers a Saltyshores How to Series.

[Scott Maybury]

Wow, even I will be able to tie the Sebile knot, and I am a complete knot tying muppet

Has anyone used it in heavy applications like GT fishing or jigging? no problems?

[Luke Wyrsta]

I'm now into a hybrid 'Sebile' and 'FG' knot, have a look at the Sebile knot on You-Tube and do the cross-wraps that way from the rod tip, then finish with the half hitches as a normal FG knot.

Wouldn't call it a hybrid Sebile/FG knot Greg....if you are simply doing the method to form the wraps as per the video then finishing with half hiches as per FG - many Japanese form their wraps as per the video, which I have also found works a lot better for me than the hand twisting method.

It was again shown to me by several anglers in Japan.

The only thing different to the FG knot is the overhand knots they are forming...

Interesting video - thanks for sharing! Not sure about 100% knot strength 

[David Noble]

Ditto what Luke said, it's an FG knot tied without the consistent pressure that the hand twisting method applies. Also isn't a multi turn overhand knot the same as a rizutto finish once it's finished?
Good vid, simplifies it well. I've tied a few FG's offshore on the kayak, prefer uni to uni now if I have to re rig.

Cheers

[Henry Sung]

Great posting.

It's simple and you can tie it real quick.

Thank you for sharing.

[Greg Burt]

No breakages here Scott, I have done some test runs with short 100lb leader and 80lb Braid over the scales to 20kg with no hassles.
The line in one hand plus off the Rod tip seems to give enough pressure, more than off my fingers alone anyway, and once it is tightened up (before the hitches) it bites in no worries  .
Bit suss on the 100% claim too Luke  .

[Gareth Branicki]

thanks greg for posting much easier than hand twisting for somone whos hands are not most dextrous . Luke you mentioned in your post that many  japanese  use  this method for the warpping stage  This is the area which i have had problems . I will stick to the traditonal finish for the fg half /hitches etc  . Is  there a disadvanted doing  the wraps this way . As there is little pressure . Thanks all f0r the replies

[Gareth Branicki]

Just an update on my long going struggle with the fg knot . Peter C haven't had time to call Doug at a convenient hour but ewill when get back next week .

However using a technique i found no problems now with the wraps or the initial half hitches however due to using only 80 pound jb solid and very 170 lb leader found when testing that the half hitches straight after the wraps were undoing  as for the half hitches braid to braid also undid and left the finished knot looking wrong .

Have since using gloves and teeth really tightened the half hitches straight after the wraps and decided to use the rizitto finish  seems much neatly .
today put on the leather gloves attached a length of line to a post in the yard wound the leader over the handles of one of my kids old scooters and pulled as hard as i could .'

The braid broke 4 cm down from the knot which was still in-tack so finally think i might actually have this knot still take over 4 minutes but finally finding some light at the end of the tunnel lol

[Peter Childs]

Gareth, a couple of really important things when tying the FG;

1) After you do the initial half hitches (the same sided ones around both the leader and main line) - tighten the living daylights out of it with gloves on both hands - as tight as you dare.  You should see the braid 'bite' into the leader as it slips ever so slightly, which fuses the whole lot together. - THEN do the final hitches around the main line!

2) burn over the tag of the leader and the tag of the braid with a lighter.

If you do this, the hitches should not come undone!

Cheers PC.

[Brandon Khoo]

I suppose if you can't do the twists for a FG knot, this might be useful but realistically, once you learn it, you can literally do the twists for a FG in a matter of seconds. It's worth learning instead of going through this rigmarole.

A couple of years ago, Rob Ciotucha and I did quite a number of tests to destruction on the FG and PR knot and one very interesting characteristic we found on both knots was that it was important to do the half hitches down the braid to complete the knot. It is not a matter of slippage but it was very apparent that for some reason, the knot where you did the half hitches down the braid had more resistance to a shock load. We couldn't really understand why this was the case but it we did at least twenty tests of this.

I'd suggest the 100% knot strength statement is a fantasy.

[Mario Benedict]

I suppose if you can't do the twists for a FG knot, this might be useful but realistically, once you learn it, you can literally do the twists for a FG in a matter of seconds. It's worth learning instead of going through this rigmarole.

A couple of years ago, Rob Ciotucha and I did quite a number of tests to destruction on the FG and PR knot and one very interesting characteristic we found on both knots was that it was important to do the half hitches down the braid to complete the knot. It is not a matter of slippage but it was very apparent that for some reason, the knot where you did the half hitches down the braid had more resistance to a shock load. We couldn't really understand why this was the case but it we did at least twenty tests of this.

I'd suggest the 100% knot strength statement is a fantasy.

Do you find that burning the leader to a mushroom head necessary Brandon ? It's very tricky to do it on a rocky boat. The skipper in NZ didn't really bother with burning the leader and he said it doesn't really make much of a difference as long as the half hitches and wraps are tight.
Last thing you want to do is burn the mainline braid and have to redo the knot all over again 

Also is 2 inch of wraps on the PR knot sufficient ?