0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ben Keller

  • Guest
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 09:26:44 AM
Yeah, I dont do many half hitches. They dont do anything anyway. I do a few then the reverse uni and dont bother burning.

Sam Beeby

  • Fusilier
  • *
  • 128
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 07:57:00 PM
Yeah i'm with you. I had a go at PR's, FG,s and Mid's and I can nail the FG quickest and best of all (at home on a table that is!). But I just can't see the structural point of all those half hitches up the mainline - just one of those 5 wrap unis would do it surely. Also in a pinch, if you use blunt enough pliers I think you can snip the leader leaving it flared enough to avoid the burning bit too.

Are these wraps up the mainline there purely to help guide the bulk of the knot back thru the guides on retreive, or am I way off the mark and they are infact critical?

I did notice that when I tighten the FG, that the cross wraps do really bite into the leader (which i assume is good), but they only visibly do this on the half of the wraps closest to the mainline, and spread apart a little too. Hows this sound  - am I on the right track there?

And do the hitches really have to be alternating? I've seen it done both ways on various sites. Alternating them really slows the knot down so i'd do without if I could.

Lastly I'm reading a bit about "braid friendly" superglue. What are we talking about here exactly. Does it have big advantages over normal super glue, and if so where can I get it. What parts of the FG would I glue - the whole thing or just the hitches on the leader itself?

Yeah im gonna look into twisted leaders because the FG is totally impractical for a windy rock platform. I'm assuming that to be able to loop onto a bimini on the reel end, that I'd be doing a twisted leader that bites back onto itself. The 2 strand part down near the bail and the 4 strand part of it would then remain outside the tip which I'd then join to a length of flourocarbon for the shy kingies. Is that right or can it be simpler than that?

Thanks for all the help guys.

Hal Harvey

  • Guest
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 09:25:30 PM
It's simpler than that - don't bother with the doubled back 4-strand bit at all, just use two strands all the way to the crimp or swivel. You'd be using relatively light stuff so a three-turn uni-knot on to a swivel would be fine. Crimp the fluorocarbon on to the other side of the swivel.

Sam Beeby

  • Fusilier
  • *
  • 128
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 09:53:54 PM
Andrew Poulos - you fish for kings and use twisted leaders.

What pound leader are you twisting up?
How are you connecting the twisted leader to your flourocarbon length?

Anyone have a link for how to finish off a twisted leader to single flouro carbon length (knotted or crimped)?

Luke Wyrsta

  • Administrator
  • Giant Trevally
  • ********
  • GTPopping.com Founder
  • 3293
  • GT Monster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 10:00:18 PM
Are these wraps up the mainline there purely to help guide the bulk of the knot back thru the guides on retreive, or am I way off the mark and they are infact critical?

I have always thought that the purpose was strictly to taper the knot so that as you say, it flows smoother through the guides. Be careful for if you don't finish it correctly (in some way or form) you could end up having your knot completely unravel.

Luke Wyrsta

  • Administrator
  • Giant Trevally
  • ********
  • GTPopping.com Founder
  • 3293
  • GT Monster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 10:04:59 PM
Anyone have a link for how to finish off a twisted leader to single flouro carbon length (knotted or crimped)?

For the knot just use a uni to uni or a nail to nail. If the FC is heavier than say 150/200lb you will experience problems trying to tie the knots - use crimps.

I'm sure someone can desribe the crimping method much better than I can because I don't use it much.

Brandon Khoo

  • Foundation Moderator
  • Giant Trevally
  • ********
  • 4135
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 10:08:59 PM
I am of the view that the half hitches and burning of the tip are essential. The half hitches lock it down and the burning of the tip minimises the scope for slippage. Don't forget the pressure you are putting on your knot with a big fish. Even if you have gotten the braid to bite into the mono, enough pressure will cause slippage. the half hitches help prevent that by locking it down as does the burnt knob at the end. Once it starts slipping, you're finished.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Sam Beeby

  • Fusilier
  • *
  • 128
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 10:49:07 PM
so Brandon, you think that alternating the half hitches is very important with the FG - that uniform half hitches won't cut the mustard.

Luke Wyrsta

  • Administrator
  • Giant Trevally
  • ********
  • GTPopping.com Founder
  • 3293
  • GT Monster
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 02, 2007, 11:06:38 PM
I would've thought that there are much better ways to 'lock' it down. I.e. as Ben mentioned, some super uni knot that really bites. I can't see the half-hitches doing much of anything to be honest and was eliminating them when I was trying to tie variations of the Midknot.

The whole issue of having something potentially slipping only saved as a last resort by half hitches and a burnt knob doesn't cut it for me. I would've thought that this would be enough to deter many but it seems that it proves it's worth.

Brandon Khoo

  • Foundation Moderator
  • Giant Trevally
  • ********
  • 4135
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 03, 2007, 08:22:32 AM
Sam, I think the argument for using alternating half-hitches is that you don't expose the finished knot to a load in one direction. Supposedly, the alternating half-hitches lock it down more effectively. I think the best way I can describe this in terms of the lockdown and the burnt knob is that if it is tight, it holds together. If it has any wriggle room, then it will start to work itslelf loose under heavy loads. Once it has started to work itself loose, the continuing load will simply make it all fall apart.

It's like when you're pushing a car. How hard is it to get it moving but the moment it starts moving, it gets much easier to push. I can use the analogy of the half hitches to a hand brake and the knob to a brick in front of the front wheel of a car that is pointing down a hill. If you have a weak hand brake, it will provide resistance but it is not going to give you much confidence. Still, it it will hold unless you start rocking the car. On the other hand, that brick is is sitll there and you are going to have to really push it hard to try to get it over that brick. Even if the hand brake is weak, the brick may still prevent the car from moving. On the other hand, a really strong hand brake and brick as insurance will almost ensure the car does not move.

The simple reality is that I prefer twisted leaders. I have far more confidence in my ability to get a secure connection with this than I do with the single strand leader to braid. That said, I have to acknowledge that I have seen enough big fish caught on the single strand conenctions to know they work and they work well - provided you tie the knots properly. I have also seen enough failures with twisted leaders to know they are also prone to failure if you don't get the connection right.

I think at the end of the day, this comes back to a very simple principle and that is to ensure you become an expert at the knots you use.

If it swims; I want to catch it!

Sam Beeby

  • Fusilier
  • *
  • 128
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: midknot advice(stickbait advice too!)
October 03, 2007, 02:08:56 PM
thanks brandon,

I'm going to fish FG's in 50lb braid to 100lb Ande Pink leader untill I can get my hands on some 80lb TufLine XP mainline. I must admt i probably wont have confidence in the knot until I can get my hands on some 80lb TF XP. I figure that I'm probably less likely to exert the kind of pressures that will seriously compromise an FG when using 80lb compared to 50lb, especially over an 80TN  Saltiga - and from what you guys have told me the knot was developed to be tied in heavier braid anyway. I'll do the FG's the regulation way too, just to be sure.

Thanks for all the help