PR knot and tip wrap

[Travis Heaps]

Didnt want to hijack another another current thread so will start another.  On the weekend we were running three rods, two with 100lb braid pr knotted to 200lb leader, the other a 130lb twisty cats pawed to same 100lb braid. The two rods running the pr consistently had issues with tip wrap when casting, the twisty setup never encountered it. Anyone else have this issue or any ideas on it??

[Andrew Poulos]

How long do you make the PR knot ? I try to keep my PR as short as possible else.

[Travis Heaps]

I didnt tie them but from memory 1.5 to 2 inches long. To that end what is the minimum effective length for a pr? Do you think its related to knot length Andrew?

[Andrew Poulos]

2 inches is 5cm or so....thats a lot longer than what I use. I had long PR knots but when casting found they would affect the cast, or jam sometimes when retrieving.The longer the knot, the harder for it to flow out as it forms a stiff section. I guess if it slows the cast down enough the following braid can wrap a guide. For me , I try to keep mine to 2cms or so. Havent had any issues with the shorter version for me, but Im not straining them as much on kings as you do on GTs.

[Jay Burgess]

Hi Travis, as Andrew already mentioned this can be attributed to knot length. I keep mine fairly short now. I haven't measured any of my most recent PR's but they're probably between what Andrew ties and what you've been using. I had this problem fairly extensively when I was in NC, especially when I was trying to cast exceptionally large poppers with my TRSH, but when I changed to a PE10-12 rod it just about eliminated the tip wrap issue. I often cast with the PR outside the guides now anyway, I prefer the extra casting distance and feel confident that my leader is still long enough. It also makes the knot last a lot longer in between re ties.

[Greg Burt]

Jay, do you allways use the shorter leader or only in open water ?
I believe Luke is a believer in the short leader concept as well, though that was a while ago 

[Mark Harris]

I am quite intrigued by that as well Jay.  I guess this means a maximum leader length of 1 metre? All of the leader outside the guides means more casting distance as you said. Have you experienced any of the potential downsides?

[Andy Rowe]

I use a longer leader and with these friction or single strand knots have found that keeping the little burnt nub at the connection end as small as possible helps alot with PE8 or less. If the nub is too big I think that little bit of friction catching along the guides causes some issues. That is if you actually do burn the end.

[Jay Burgess]

Jay, do you allways use the shorter leader or only in open water ?
I believe Luke is a believer in the short leader concept as well, though that was a while ago 

Not exclusively Greg, I still cast with the PR well inside the guides when I'm using PE8 but have just started to deviate a little when using my heavier outfits. Our terrain here is brutal at best (I would best describe it as similar to Shoalwater), and I found that a longer leader had negligible advantage when the fish decided to brick you in shallow water. Having said that, I have started to fish a couple of areas that are a little more forgiving.

I am quite intrigued by that as well Jay.  I guess this means a maximum leader length of 1 metre? All of the leader outside the guides means more casting distance as you said. Have you experienced any of the potential downsides?

Hi Mark, I can cast with a leader considerably longer than 1m outside the guides, as long as it's long enough to protect the mainline from tail scutes I'm fairly happy. Have not experienced any potential downsides - yet!

[Warwick Joyce]

I run leader similar to you Jay, my set up is 100lb main FG'd to approx 1.5-2m 200lb leader. I think the knot is in between the 2nd and 3rd guide from the tip when I cast. The knot itself would be lucky to be 1" long, with the FG if its too long I can't get it to bite as well and inevitably comes loose.
I believe you can tie the PR tighter from the get go?
I haven't really noticed any tip wrap from the knot.

[Jay Burgess]

I run leader similar to you Jay, my set up is 100lb main FG'd to approx 1.5-2m 200lb leader. I think the knot is in between the 2nd and 3rd guide from the tip when I cast. The knot itself would be lucky to be 1" long, with the FG if its too long I can't get it to bite as well and inevitably comes loose.
I believe you can tie the PR tighter from the get go?
I haven't really noticed any tip wrap from the knot.

You can but it's inevitably longer than an FG in any case. I think if I wanted to switch back to consistently longer leaders I'd start to use the FG more often.

[Mark Harris]

Thanks for the responses Jay and Warwick.  Doing must of my fishing in areas with some serious shallowish water terrain, I have been nervous about a leader shorter than about 3 metres.  It seems that might not be necessary though.

Going back to Travis' problem, it might be that the length of the PR knot is the issue.  Might be worth switching over to using an FG which tends to be shorter by definition - with heavy braid only requires 10-12 weaves then a similar number of half hitches and the tying off.  And you don't need a bobbin, so one less thing to lose!

[Brandon Khoo]

I think the problem might have something to do with the weight of the leader too. I have found in the past that while 170lb seems to go really well with minimal tip wraps, I started seeing a lot more tip wraps with 200lb.