Braid?

[Doug Terry]

This may seem a stupid question to some of you but I'm confused?
I read somewhere that Varivas Avani GT Max Power is supplied by ygk who get it from Dyneema who make it. So does this mean that Varivas, Berkley Whiplash, and Tuf lines are all the same if so why is Varivas so much more expensive.
How does Dyneema differ from Spectra fiber.

[Gavin Chau]

 theres 2 companys that make GSP (both of their products are basically the same) - honeywell, an offshoot of US aerospace program, makes spectra and a Dutch company DSM makes dyneema

spectra has slightly thicker filaments and dyneema has thinner filaments - supposedly spectra has better abrasion resistance - they also both stretch slightly and I've read that spectra continues to stretch over the course of its life while dyneema stretches a little in the beginning then becomes extremely stable with nearly no stretch for the rest of its life.

Individual companies then source this material and coat it and braid it into fishing lines

so YGK and varivas might all be dyneema but they have been coated and woven differently - so they have different properties

[Dmitrii Novgorodtcev]

As for PE made in Japan I have the following information. Two companies in Japan produces dyneema by license from Dutch company (I do not know the name, but it must be DSM) - Unitika and Toray. They supply the material (dyneema) to Japanese makers - Varivas, Yamatoyo, Sunline, YGK, etc. These makers applies own technologies of braiding and coating the dyneema received from Unitika and Toray. So, the final preperties of the line are different depending on the final makers' technologies.

[Mark Harris]

Gavin and Dmitrii.. .that was my understanding as well.

I am thinking though that there must now be Chinese manufacturers making very inferior copies of raw Dyneema and/or raw Spectra (as is the Chinese way)?  It is hard to imagine that some of the truly awful and obviously Chinese braids around are made from imported raw materials! 

[Gavin Chau]

I am thinking though that there must now be Chinese manufacturers making very inferior copies of raw Dyneema and/or raw Spectra

maybe... but the simple solution is not to buy them!

if you spend $1000, on a rod $1000 on a reel, $100 on a lure and $5000 odd on a trip why would you skimp on the line that actually connects you to the fish?

presumably you run a business as well so you must know that business performance is scored on revenue and profit - if these makers of 'truly awful' braid are still trading then they must be creating something that a segment of the market wants... its probably just not a segment of the market that you belong to

or from another perspective - there are lambourghini's and there are tata's in this world - each has its place in the market - if you want to drive a lambo then what point is there in complaining about the people who drive tata's? the average income on earth is probably something like $3000 USD - you're probably forgetting that your spin outfit is more than the average mans annual wage

ok off the soapbox for me now

[Mark Harris]

I am all for soap-boxing Gavin, go for it .

However there are some fatal flaws in the car analogy. Tatas are perfectly functional and do the job they were designed to do. In fact, I can imagine many Lambo owners who if being honest would admit that their cars are so unreliable you might be better off with a Tata from that pure functionality point of view  .

This isn't the case with much of the crappy Chinese braid I have seen. Quite simply (and unlike a Tata!) it does not do the basics which I see as don't snap unreasonably andcast reasonably. At my local store a 300 yard spool of excellent and highly functional Tufline XP 30 lbs is about $29 (for example).  The same rubbishy Chinese 30lb braid is about $18-21. I pity the poor schmuck who buys the cheaper stuff (probably called something like Super PE Strong Japan Style  ) and who didn't spend a few dollars more on the Tufline.

I do realise that there is a huge market for budget products which perform their function.  Not sure that applies in this case though!

[Doug Terry]

We have a huge range of Braid available ranging from $118 to 9(ebay) somewhere in the middle shall we say average $30-$50. We now have a growing number of manufactures producing 8 strand super braids IE powerpro. tuf, berkley. Have any of you used Powerpro Super Sick and how does it rate. There also seems to be a wide difference in at what strength the line breaks it's not what it always what it says on the box, I refer to this site.so My question is in the average price range which would you choose.
http://www.paulusjustfishing.com/forum.

[Sydney Neal]

I use pauls white line and find it no different to the more expensive varivas and the the ygk jig 8 X rocks are rocks yet to see how long it last in the sun though but so far so good.
Note I bought the 100lbs and also the 80lbs and I don't recomend the 80 its not 8 strand and its pretty noisy, but for jigging its ok. the 100 lbs is fairly good, nice round profile and cast well better of the two and it breaks at 136 lbs according two his site but take it with a grain of salt

[Gavin Chau]

The same rubbishy Chinese 30lb braid is about $18-21. I pity the poor schmuck who buys the cheaper stuff (probably called something like Super PE Strong Japan Style   ) and who didn't spend a few dollars more on the Tufline.

http://www.bcyfibers.com/FAQs.php

I have to say I've never seen or bought any of this chinese braid that you speak of (unless Rovex (dyneema) is one of those brands - I won't buy it again) but seriously..... You could catch a heap of bream on cotton thread if you had to... so does that make the cheap braid a tata? (I don't know ) I just don't think GT popping is what the manufacturers intended for their line somehow

There also seems to be a wide difference in at what strength the line breaks it's not what it always what it says on the box, I refer to this site.so My question is in the average price range which would you choose.

I use jerry brown hollow and solid (mostly solid) - if you do a little digging around you will be able to find bulk spools of it dirt cheap!! If you do some reading you will find that its also a very highly regarded line (even for jigging and popping for GT's and kings)

[Steve Li]

You get what you pay for. For the price point of the "China made" braid, it should be compared to something similar in price. I agree with Gavin, there probably is a market or demand for them. Not everyone can afford to drive a Lambo...... There are those that have to settle for a Lada.

Even Varivas have a lower tier range of braid like the 10x10. I tried them and have since swore never to use it again (they did snap unreasonably!). They cost around S$30 per 100m (not cheap exactly) but they definitely are not "better" than some of the less popular brands in the market (including the china made ones).

[Mark Harris]

I use jerry brown hollow and solid (mostly solid) - if you do a little digging around you will be able to find bulk spools of it dirt cheap!! If you do some reading you will find that its also a very highly regarded line (even for jigging and popping for GT's and kings)

I don't really need to do any reading. I use Jerry Brown solid myself for GT fishing (as 2nd choice behind Varivas GT Max and just ahead of Tufline XP).  It is an excellent braid I agree.

I would imagine a lot of the cheaper Chinese braids have not made it to Australia. They are all over Asia though both as distinct brands and as fakes (notably YGK and PowerPro).

You could catch a heap of bream on cotton thread if you had to

Depends on the size of the bream  . I would not like to have caught this one on cotton. Fantastic fight, even on 20 lb Tufline.

[Gavin Chau]

Quote from: gavin chau on February 22, 2012, 11:37:36 PM
I use jerry brown hollow and solid (mostly solid) - if you do a little digging around you will be able to find bulk spools of it dirt cheap!! If you do some reading you will find that its also a very highly regarded line (even for jigging and popping for GT's and kings)

I don't really need to do any reading. I use Jerry Brown solid myself for GT fishing (as 2nd choice behind Varivas GT Max and just ahead of Tufline XP).  It is an excellent braid I agree.

I would imagine a lot of the cheaper Chinese braids have not made it to Australia. They are all over Asia though both as distinct brands and as fakes (notably YGK and PowerPro).

sorry that was directed at the dougs question

nice bream!! the biggest commonly caught bream we get here are probably only 1.5kgs.... although I have seen them to 2.5kgs

[Brandon Khoo]

That is more a snapper than a bream!!

[Dmitrii Novgorodtcev]

There is a lot of PE brands - all at different prices, all from different makers, famous and unknown, chinese or japanese... But if you spend $5000 for a trip, will you take a risk to use some cheaper chinese line not knowing its quality?
I use Vawrivas Max Power and Varivas SMP PE though I guess there are no worse options by more reasonable price on the market. But name of Varivas on the spool MAKES ME SURE in expedition like no other brand else, and I am ready to pay this price difference for such a feeling.