Copies of Fisherman, Carpenter and HammerHead Poppers

[Simon Oakley]

I went into a local tackle shop on the week end and I noticed a bunch of what I thought was Fisherman, Carpenter and HammerHead  Poppers on closer inspection I found they were all copies and were sold under the name Luars Lures. They are all through wires and weighted the same as the originals
They had copied the Fisherman-Bigmouth, S-Pop, Carpenter-Seafrog, Shifuroggu, Hammerhead-Tobi ect to name just a few.
Whoever got these copied knew the best selling (most common) ones.
Apparently these Luars Lures are exclusive to a chain of indepndent tackle stores around Australia and most retailed for between $30 and $40 each.
What I wanted to know was I have been on some of these Japanese manufacturers website that have said be on the lookout for copies and they will take legal action against anyone that does copy them but will they have a leg to stand on being the Lures aren't sold in Japan?
Do they have an International Patient?   
What is Everyones thoughts on this?

[Brandon Khoo]

Simon, there are copies everywhere. It is not so easy to initiate a breach of copyright action as they really only need to change one minor aspect to avoid any breach. It is also very expensive and not worth the while of these small Japanese companies to pursue such actions.

All I can say is you tend to get what you pay for. The wiring and terminals and finish from the premium lures are nearly always way superior to the copies.

The Sea Frog has been often copied but almost never replicated in performance.

[Chris Young]

Hi Simon

I am not a fan of copies at all, and I'm not just talking about lures. They (copies) are usually not up to the standard of the originals they try to mimic. What really pi$$es me off is they try to ride on the back of someone elses hard work & turn out mass produced product with no thought about what they are trying to make (except dollars), these lures may look the same on the surface but the intricacies in making a lure work well go a good bit deeper than just looks.

My 2 cents

 

[Simon Oakley]

When someone says the name copy they straight away think that the copy is inferior but I can tell you now these copies are pretty good quality.
They come unrigged but they use heavy gauge stainless wire and swivels and although the paint jobs isn't the quality of the originals it is pretty good and will take quite a beating.
Go into Tackle World and check them out I can almost guarantee if you are keen on some heavy duty poppers for the price you will like what you see.

[Brandon Khoo]

I'm not sure how much impact these replicas actually have on the original manufacturers. Companies like Fisherman, Carpenter, Craftbait, Hammerhead etc sell all the lures that they make without any trouble. They aim for a segment of the market where people will pay for the tried and proven.

Simon, I think it is very much a case of each to their own. Some people don't like replicas for what they are - which is expoiting someone else's hard work. I've also found that while many of these look the goods, they have not performed like the originals. I haven't found one of these replicas which is up to the quality of the originals and with what time I have for fishing, I rather stick to the tried and true.

[Bwanna Surya]

I believe the recent case happened to the Patriot Design jig...in this case 2 of their design jigs are being copied in South East Asia....check out the link below, Matsutani himself posted the warning about the copy....

http://www.fishingouting.com/forums/f11/imitation-warninng-japan-pd-2832/

[Simon Oakley]

I'm not for knock off either and I would say these aren't as good as the originals but I can say they aren't far behind.
You can see on some of them that they have internal weights ect (you can just see where they have been bodged up) just like the originals.
If you get the original take it all apart and use exactly the same components and have them weighted exactly the same how can it be greatly inferior from the original and at half the price I think there is going to be a lot of people that would buy the originals that will at least try these "knock offs".
I can tell you this much I will beat money at least 25% of the people who read this will at least go and check them out and being more readily available as well as less expensive (1/2 the price) then the originals I beat they sell a truck load of them (more then the originals) not to mention a lot of people that don't know what a Fisherman - Bigmouth or a Carpenter - Seafrog or even a Hammerhead - Tobi looks like that are just getting into Popping.
Look how hard it is to get any of those Name Brand Japanese Lures in Australia and no one carries any stock so they are going to sell a ton more then the originals.
The first thing I said to the guy in the tackle shop when I saw them was someone is going to get there arse kicked. It would probably be different if they had changed something on them or only had one or two out of the whole range that were copies but the whole lot were copies there is about 12 different Poppers and all are copies of proven Japanese originals.
They even had on the header tag something like this "These Lures Are Tried and Proven To Catch Fish" or something like that.
Its sad that whoever has a good idea and has spent the time developing the originals will have someone just copy them and profit from it.
I don't know if any of you read "The Australia Tackle Retailer" that most of the tackle shops get to show case new products. There was an article in their a couple of months ago where Ben from Halco Tackle was having a bitch about a company from China had copied there lures right down to the paintjob and patiented locking bib that won best new lure in the Chinese National tackle show and it was a Halco copy.
Well it looks like its not only the Chinese that copy good ideas but Australians as well.
I suppose you can look at anything in the tackle industry it always runs on copy's one season someone brings out something that a real revolution then a few months later 10 company's have all copied it.

[Brandon Khoo]

actually Simon, I would wager that the poppers you saw are all made in China. For a lure to sell at $30-$40, it's wholesale cost would have to be something like $10-$15. They sure can't produce lures at that cost here.

Apart from the fact that it grates like hell for the small Japanese companies to see knock-offs, it doesn't impact them from a sales perspective as their lures disappear very quickly upon release and they are selling everything they make and leaving demand out there that isn't met.

You make a fair point on availability and I think you're right - at those prices, they will sell a lot of them.

[Brock Arifovic]

We all know that there is nothing like the real thing!!!

[Simon Oakley]

I will wager they were made in China or Taiwan or Thailand ect as well but were made for an Australian Company at there request.
I work in the tackle industry so I have a fare idea where things are made. I also know you cant beat Japanese quality.
Actually I have some Popping and Jigging blanks being made in Japan as we speak.
There is 4 models in the Popping range that go from PE5 to PE10
In the Jigging range I have 6 models from PE2 to PE10
The manufacturer of these blanks also builds blanks for company's like Fisherman, Carpenter, SevenSea's ect but to there design
The blanks will be made in Japan but the rods will be built here.
I am still tossing up if I will offer the blanks for sale I may just do that considering you cant really buy Japanese blanks (well except for one over rated brand).
The guy I am working with in Japan is the Guru of Jigging and Popping blank design.
I have Trade Marked a pretty shit hot name as well that they will be sold under.

Thanks
regards
Simon

[Travis Heaps]

Your only four posts are spent "wondering" about this new range of knock off poppers that replicate the big japanese brands and then you go onto say you supposedly work in the tackle industry and have commissioned a whole bunch of blanks that you'll bring into australia and build up to replicate the big japanese brands....

[Angus Hulme]

Hi Simon

I am not a fan of copies at all, and I'm not just talking about lures. They (copies) are usually not up to the standard of the originals they try to mimic. What really pi$$es me off is they try to ride on the back of someone elses hard work & turn out mass produced product with no thought about what they are trying to make (except dollars), these lures may look the same on the surface but the intricacies in making a lure work well go a good bit deeper than just looks.

My 2 cents

fair point Chris, and I generally agree. For instance, I have seen quite a few copies of Nilsmaster lures and even tried a few of the cheaper replicas, but found that none of them worked nearly as well as the original Finnish masterpieces, nor were made with the same quality.

However, I am getting into making some stickbaits and poppers for my own use. And given that I am leaping into this activity with bugger-all clue about what lures are best and why, I have found it necessary to examine the top quality products such as Nomad/Blackjack/Heru lures and try to replicate these. If the copying of a product is for ones' own use and not for retail purposes, is imitation a bad thing? At any rate, don't they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?

Interesting topic, BTW.

Cheers
Angus

[Brandon Khoo]

Simon - could I ask who the manufacturer of the blanks is who is purportedly making blanks for Fisherman, Carpenter and Sevenseas?

I will wager they were made in China or Taiwan or Thailand ect as well but were made for an Australian Company at there request.
I work in the tackle industry so I have a fare idea where things are made. I also know you cant beat Japanese quality.
Actually I have some Popping and Jigging blanks being made in Japan as we speak.
There is 4 models in the Popping range that go from PE5 to PE10
In the Jigging range I have 6 models from PE2 to PE10
The manufacturer of these blanks also builds blanks for company's like Fisherman, Carpenter, SevenSea's ect but to there design
The blanks will be made in Japan but the rods will be built here.
I am still tossing up if I will offer the blanks for sale I may just do that considering you cant really buy Japanese blanks (well except for one over rated brand).
The guy I am working with in Japan is the Guru of Jigging and Popping blank design.
I have Trade Marked a pretty shit hot name as well that they will be sold under.

Thanks
regards
Simon

[Chris Young]

Angus.. I think its great that you are making your own lures, and I agree there is nothing wrong with copying for your own use. I am willing to bet that after you copy a few you will start to understand the why's and wherefore's and then start making your own shapes. It is through those same processes that ALL of the great lures are born, they evolve from ingenuity and imagination from people asking "what if" . Without that sort of thinking nothing would evolve and we would still be useing Huckleberry Fin fishing poles, Imagine how easy they would be to copy.

Cheers Chris

[Simon Oakley]

Your only four posts are spent "wondering" about this new range of knock off poppers that replicate the big japanese brands and then you go onto say you supposedly work in the tackle industry and have commissioned a whole bunch of blanks that you'll bring into australia and build up to replicate the big japanese brands

For a start do you think any of the Japanese manufacturers that deal with these Japanese tackle company's would copy one of there Japanese customers blanks to sell to an Australian customer.
I don't know if you have ever dealt with anyone from Japan but they don't do that kind of thing. I didn't ship blanks or rods over to them in Japan and say here I want you to copy this Fisherman or Carpenter rod.
Who the hell would make quality Jigging and Popping blanks here in Australia, Pacific Composites, Synderglas ? The reason the Japanese blanks and rods are so good is because they use the Japanese High-Tec carbons that are only made in Japan.
The blanks I am having made are so much different to what the Japanese use now. My blanks are not as light as most of the Japanese tackle company's but are much stronger . How about a PE10, 7'10", 250gram cast weight popping rod that can take over 20Kg's of drag and are only 20% heavier then the average Japanese blank (built up it's still over 80grams lighter then the Shimano GT Special that everyone talks up around here and a hell of a lot stronger). The GT special I would rate as PE10 but because it can only take 12KG's of drag I think they rated it PE8 (My PE10 is around the same in power)
All of the Japanese tackle company's go for weight over strength I went for something different so how the hell can that be a copy.
I don't know what 4 post have to do with anything.

I have a rod manufacturing company (OzRods or The Australian Rod Company Pty Ltd) and import and distribute tackle mostly blanks and rod building components for company's like Batson Enterprises (ALPS), Lamiglas, Seeker, Swifty Manufacturing, American Tackle Company, Flex Coat, Pacific Bay, Matagi as well as others so that's the supposed tackle industry I am in.


Angus

If you are making lures for yourself or even your mates I don't think anyone will have a problem.
I don't even have a problem someone using an original as the base or concept for there design as long as it's not a exact copy.


Brandon
   
I wont say on an open forum who the exact manufacturer is but Japan only has 2 large Blank manufacturing company's as well as a number of very small ones.
Daiko is one of them and Tenryu is another but some of the small tackle company's do build there own blanks. I believe that Ripple Fisher manufacturer there own blanks.
I would have to say that 80% of blanks that are made in Japan come from those 2 company's. Another thing that most people don't know is a couple of mid sized tackle company's in Japan actually have a lot of there blanks made in Taiwan but the rods get built in Japan. Not all of there blanks are made in Taiwan just certain models
Like I said this guy in Japan that I am dealing with is in actual fact the designer for most of these gun tackle company's they just tell him what they want and he goes to work from there.