GTPopping.com - Giant Trevally, GTPopping, Topwater & GT Fly-Fishing Resource
Extreme Jigging: Dogtooth Tuna, Yellowtail Kingfish (Hiramasa), Amberjack, Samson Fish => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Brandon Khoo on March 24, 2007, 07:15:34 PM
-
I've made a few observations on the high tech Japanese jigging rods which are now quite common on the market. No please note these are only my own observations and I am interested in what other think based on their experience. I'm not interested in getting into a angry debate with anyone who may be using one of these. I'd point out that all my jigging rods fall into this category.
I have a general view that the rods struggle to live up to the claims of the manufacturers in terms of the weight of line they made designed to fish. For example, there are many of these rods which are supposed to fish up to PE8. The problem is I don't feel at all confident that they will fish PE8. To date, I've seen two go when loaded up and they were both among the supposed best and most expensive on the market. I was also recently advised by a tackle shop owner that his very expensive top of the range jig rod went on him. Interesting that one of the rods I saw blow up was the same model and I've heard of one other example.
The other one I saw go has unfortunately established a reputation for blowing up being 100% graphite.
Is it a matter of bad technique (eg high-sticking) or are these rods simply not strong enough and incapable of fishing the weight claimed?
-
I'll deny all knowledge of that conversation mate :-[
I think the problems mostly stem from running the rods at max load most of the time.
At this level the margin for error must naturally be lesser. A diet of fast taper yank style stroker rods doesn't help either as they are virtually unbreakable and teach us bad habits. When you compare a GT rod with a 15kg limit to a jig rod with the same you'll see a massive difference in butt strength.
These rods are fabulous to jig and fight fish with but sometimes they can go bang. I'll keep using them because they outfish everything else I've used , but maybe a cheaper one on doggies!!
Neil
-
All Japanese rods have specific load capabilities at different angles.
Just because a rod says it can take 8PE which can be 100lb does not mean it can take max load at 90 degree angle.
An example maybe 15kg at 45 degree / 12kg at 60kg but only 9kg at 90 degree.
I have visited several different Japanese rod builders work shops have seen many tests done, they all do break tests several times.
If you lock the drags and try and pull the fishes head of with off keeping an eye on your rod angle everything will break.
-
thanks for you comments, guys. Like Neil, I am going to continue using them because I love the way they feel so I am simply going to have to run the gauntlet with them. After plenty of practice, I'm reasonably good at avoiding high sticking but it's only a matter of time.
I'm currently usingh a Nirai and a Miller custom rod and they are just so sweet.
-
Is it a matter of bad technique (eg high-sticking) or are these rods simply not strong enough and incapable of fishing the weight claimed?
I personally feel that "high-sticking" is part and parcel of the game. Unavoidable sometimes, especially with a big fish and angler fatigue on multi-day trips. Tackle failure can obviously be attributed to angler error but I believe that some products fail more regularly than others. There are some PE8 rods out there in the market which I feel are not strong enough to fish their heavy ratings as claimed. Anglers must also be aware of the limits of their tackle. Understanding specific load capabilities at different angles is important. Knowing whether their jig rods are constructed of 100% carbon/graphite or a blend of composites is also important in helping the angler adjust his fishing technique. A PE8 HOTs jig rod and PE8 Sevenseas rod will require very different fighting styles.
-
Please Explain! Hots V Sevenseas composition and styles, a little info could make me dangerous ::)
-
Hi GPB,
I think most Sevenseas rods are made of composite material. Comparatively, Sevenseas rods are on the heavy side because of the composites used. Rods with very high carbon content like some of the Blue Rose PE8 models and the earlier 1st generation butt joint Seed Shiren models (99% carbon?) are very light and slim in profile. The great thing about 100% carbon rods are that they are 1) very light, perfect for jigging long hours, 2) slim in design hence perfect for underarm jigging and 3) slim but still have a lot of torque in the butt ie. you can go very hard on them...but at the same time, you have to be careful because a carbon rod with a lot of torque can't bend too much...so u gotta watch out for "high-sticking"! Composite jig rods with lower carbon percentages on the other hand are generally thicker in profile and heavier but will probably take to "high-sticking" much better just like GT rods do.
cheers
-
I'm not sure I earn enough to afford Seven Seas though......... :-[
-
By the sounds of it you are all over the Seven Seas!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
no, only the Coral Sea ;D
-
Nobody likes to think they make mistakes when fishing, especially expensive ones. If you get a chance you should check your fighting technique on video, it is most revealing.
Some rods are rated with max drag and others with fighting drag, my point was that a max drag setting cannot provide you with a wide margin for error, one that probably will occur sooner or later, perhaps with unpleasant consequences.
A setting of 15kg does not sound much higher than one of 12kg if you say it quickly, however, in percentage terms the difference is obvious-25%!!
My advice would be to buy a rod with a higher rating than you think you need, running a rod at 75% will hopefully allow for most mistakes made by experienced jiggers.
Neil
-
I think that is really sensible advice. I obviously need a stronger rod so it can compensate for my terrible jigging technique
Nobody likes to think they make mistakes when fishing, especially expensive ones. If you get a chance you should check your fighting technique on video, it is most revealing.
Some rods are rated with max drag and others with fighting drag, my point was that a max drag setting cannot provide you with a wide margin for error, one that probably will occur sooner or later, perhaps with unpleasant consequences.
A setting of 15kg does not sound much higher than one of 12kg if you say it quickly, however, in percentage terms the difference is obvious-25%!!
My advice would be to buy a rod with a higher rating than you think you need, running a rod at 75% will hopefully allow for most mistakes made by experienced jiggers.
Neil
-
By the sounds of it you are all over the Seven Seas!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
*psst psst....
His favourite rod is the JM series....
-
I think the JMs or Calstars are exactly what I need to jig with, especially with my terrible jigging technique. I reckon the reason why I generally catch fish when I am jigging is because my technique is bad that the lure is really erratic and darts all over the place.
Neil's suggestion to watch your own technique on video is a good one except I saw my golf swing on video a number of years ago and was quite traumatised by how bad it was!
By the sounds of it you are all over the Seven Seas!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
*psst psst....
His favourite rod is the JM series....
-
I think the JMs or Calstars are exactly what I need to jig with, especially with my terrible jigging technique. I reckon the reason why I generally catch fish when I am jigging is because my technique is bad that the lure is really erratic and darts all over the place.
Neil's suggestion to watch your own technique on video is a good one except I saw my golf swing on video a number of years ago and was quite traumatised by how bad it was!
By the sounds of it you are all over the Seven Seas!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
*psst psst....
His favourite rod is the JM series....
I don't have any favourite rod in mind :-\... but I always believe that rods that enables us to jig with ease are good for me... the hardship can come when I try to lift a fish, that doesnt bother me much. Afterall on a jigging trip, we are jigging some 90pct of the time and only 10pct is spent wrestling the fishes(on a relatively good trip i.e.)
Brandon, technique might be important during the lull moments (like wary fishes or not much fishes around) , but during a frenzy the technique, type of jigs and presentation plays very minor roles only(or hardly). More importantly, having a good momentum is fundamental, that's the only thing that can keep you going for a longer time if you havent been to the gym religiously.
Of course, opinion differs and these are just mine :-*
-
I'll almost certainly continue with the Nirai as my regular jig rod but I want a real beast to fish for big doggies with. I'll be using it for jigging but also to drop big live baits down.
I spend my time in the gym (very unhappily) because I need to be able to reel a 70kg GT in ;D
-
Bernie, I didn't think you needed the gym with all your match practice . ::)
-
I don't spend as much time fishing as people think!! >:( What?! You think I don't have to earn a living?
I would like to be off on a trip once a month ;D
-
I would like to fit in your suitcase ::)
-
I'm sure there are lots of people on this forum who get to go on more fishing trips than me. I admit I go on some good ones but you have to understand, I'm on a mission for a 70kg GT and what the hell, while we're on it, a 100kg dogtooth ;D
if I manage to catch both of those, I might focus on something like a 2.5 kilo bream to give the body a rest for a few years........
:D
-
if I manage to catch both of those, I might focus on something like a 2.5 kilo bream to give the body a rest for a few years........
:D
Haha, don't even joke!
-
how about a really big garfish? :D
-
A 2.5 kg bream on an 80lb outfit would be good to see :-[
-
I used to be a very keen mulloway fisho when I was a lot younger (and poorer). I used to have to work so hard to get those live mullet and then some bloody mongrel 1kg tailor would come along and eat it.
-
My advice would be to buy a rod with a higher rating than you think you need, running a rod at 75% will hopefully allow for most mistakes made by experienced jiggers.
Neil
The only problem with this Neil is that such a rod is too stiff to work the jig properly when jigging the Japanese jerk/crank style. A properly matched rod to jig load makes a huge difference to my jigging technique and gives me and less fatigue.
Solution might be to more aware of your fighting techniqe i.e. less high sticking or avoid slaming the loaded rod against the rail etc.
-
I've seen highly experienced GT fishos highsticking - its just unavoidable when fighting a fish at times.
I have also seen jigging and popping rods subjected to the most horrendous abuse against the rails of the boat notwithstanding the best efforts of the fisherman to avoid it! I had this at Shoalwater recently when I was fully locked up including having my hand on the spool and I got slammed. Almost got slam-dunked as the mongrel thing actually managed to lift my feet off the ground when it pulled me tight against the rails.
The drag was at an obscene level but if I didn't hold on for dear life, the fish was a goner and as it turns out, I still got my butt smacked :'(
-
Have nearly been pulled out of boat twice to avoid slamming rod on side ,one time my mate grabed me by the back of my shorts i was a gonner feet well of the deck ,he saved my stella from getting wet and me.