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Extreme Jigging: Dogtooth Tuna, Yellowtail Kingfish (Hiramasa), Amberjack, Samson Fish => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Brandon Khoo on April 02, 2007, 05:11:32 PM
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I'd be interested in people's views on the merits of overheads versus spinning reels for jigging. I use a spinning reel myself because I am uncoordinated but the best jiggers I know seem to generally prefer overheads. One of the big advantages of the overhead is that you can far more easily feel a strike on the drop whereas this is difficult with the overhead. On the other hand, I prefer a spinning reel as I feel like I have more leverage when fighting a fish.
What do you prefer and why?
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I like both. In a threadline configuration, the more pressure that is applied to the rod, the more stable it becomes. I also find that it is much easier to adjust drag settings on the fly in quick response when required. You also don't need to worry about over-runs/birdnests or having to lay the line on the spool (although this really isn't a problem with modern jigging reels due to narrow spool).
I still like jigging with a overhead reel though. Gives you the opportunity to use your tired arms slightly differently ;D
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I guess it boils down to personal preference but some guys who are competent with both overhead and spinner set-ups tell me that jigging with an overhead is far less tiring in deep water with heavy jigs. I'm more of an overhead guy and I also find that low gear ratio overhead reels like the OJ 4000P have the added advantage of giving tremendous savage cranking power.
However, the grip and wrist position of the rod arm are different in overhead and spinner set-ups because of reel position. I think the rod arm grip position is more comfortable with a spinner- the wrist is in-line with the forearm allowing the angler to fully extend and lock his rod arm if necessary and generate more power. With overheads, the wrist is positioned at an angle making it difficult for the angler to lock his rod arm, this grip is also not as secure and you can't generate as much power.
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Stability is the keyword in the differences between the two. My first jigging reel was an Accurate Boss 665XHM which I loved using :), untill I bought my Stella 20000 and never looked back ;D, as the overheads put a lot more stain on your forearms and wrists :'(. Cam [Stellajigger] did the same and boat guests would always wait for a free Stella :-\.
Nomad has just replaced there Torsas with Stella 20000 through customer requests, they have also put on board Twinpowers for SP's etc. :D
My Accurate is still lovingly used for big fish bottom fishing and trolling big bibbed lures and I have a upgraded Spheros 14000 / GH Samurai 30-80 for guests 8)
PS: I did use the Accurate as a 50lb / 150-250grm lite jigging reel but have updated to a Stella 8000, 'beautiful'.
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stella is the go no more to say .
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Cam, christened the Stella 8000 with a jigged Bonnito last week.
Gave the Spheros a run on the Samurai but no luck, feels really good.
Do you want 'T' or round Stella handle?, I've got both here, they are the same as our 20000s.
I think KC is now leaning towards the 'T", I took a spare full handle out last week and changed handles half way through a jigging session so he could compare.
I've got 4 'T' handles here, I think 1 was yours and you ended up with 2 round.
Bun
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Deep water + PE8 + heavy jigs 400-600g = overhead
medium depth + PE5-6 + 200 to 350g jigs = either
shallow to medium depth + PE2-4 + 100-200g jigs spinning reels more versatile
there are exceptions to the above depending on target species, geography etc but the above is my general guidelines.
Andrew
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Andrew,
What depths do you call as deep and medium ?.
I found the overhead harder then the spinner using 250-400grm jigs in 60-100mt, the overhead was a Accurate 665HC which I think was actually a 665XHC [6.0-1 ratio].
Greg
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Hi Greg
As you suspect, the ratio is the problem there......whilst most would think a 6:1 overhead is good for jigging, it is just awful. Whilst beautiful reels, I don't like Torsas for that reason, and whilst I love my 665 - if I owned his high speed brother - well....that reel would as does yours relegated to more shallow work. My reels are mostly either 4:1 (Accurate 665) or 4.9:1 (Progear Oceanus). The Oceanus gears are cut on an angle which gives increased cranking efficiency and allows the slightly higher ratio.
In addition, standard crank arms on most overhead reels are pathetic and no good for jigging, way too short. I replaced the 665 arm with a jigging master power arm (11.5cm) which gives you much better power and speed. Look at Shimano OJ 'vs' trinidad - same thing. While we are on the topic, one way bearing anti-reverses are of limited strength, the JM double docking set fixes this. Add a JM T-Bar and you have a perfect reel for jigging - or just buy an Oceanus with all these features built in! Fellas, this isn't meant to sound like an advert, just that JM design after market upgrades to make already good products better.
Anything deeper than 100m I would call deep water. Most of our metro jigging is done in 90-125m (mainly 110m) and I intend to try a couple of spots in 190m this winter (for giant AJ's!!!)
Andrew
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um go the round knob the T seems to give me a blister have not tried it with my new smith gloves though .
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Andrew, I noticed the ratio mistake to late to do any thing about it as I had thrown out the box, as from day one I wanted 4.0-1. It's a good reel but to hard for jigging. I found the same with the Twinspin 30.
Cam I'll send the 'T' over with the Speros.
Bun
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Round knobs for threadlines certainly......T-knobs for overhead & heavy jigs. Also, check your grip and gloves, you shouldn't be getting blisters......as you said, balls are better for spinners anyway.
um go the round knob the T seems to give me a blister have not tried it with my new smith gloves though .
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Greg,
Me too. I own mostly high speed threadlines (GT's, 4500H etc) which I love for spinning lures (which is what I bought them for) but dont like them much for jigging, except for lighter lures 300g & below. Most of my surf casting overheads are high speed Saltist models which are great horizontally, but similarly no good for jigging.
Andrew
Round knobs for threadlines certainly......T-knobs for overhead & heavy jigs.
um go the round knob the T seems to give me a blister have not tried it with my new smith gloves though .
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Hi Andrew
Got to hop in here with an alternative view. A WELL maintained roller a/r bearing will not fail.
Neil
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either way bearing is a vastly weaker AR system
Hi Andrew
Got to hop in here with an alternative view. A WELL maintained roller a/r bearing will not fail.
Neil
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Why is that?
Don't see ratchet kits for stella or saltiga spin and they use a/r bearings, even ocea jig only has it as a back up if no maintenance is done.
From an engineering point of view this type of device is used in many other systems where much more torque is involved as well as a higher requirement for reliability than what's needed in a fishing reel.
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I don't think A/R's are a compromise at all in spinners. The large size of the rotors allows very big diametre AR bearings to fit and these are very strong and efficient ie because they are generally larger in diametre they have more mechanical advantage (read leverage) over the shaft they are looking to stop. They also act on the rotor itself rather than the handle shaft which is mechanically superior. Its a different story in overheads. Firstly compact modern jig reels don't have the space available (like eggbeaters) to have oversized AR bearings. In addition, if they are to achieve free spool, the bearings must act on the main shaft/handle. The frozen spool can only act on the AR bearing first via a gear set which is not as precise and results in alot more backlash. I think that in overheads depending on AR's alone, or pairs of them in the case of a lot of accurate overheads, might not be the best case scenario - no coincidence then that if you read US threads there are alot of twin AR bearing failures in the Accurates they love so much. If the AR's alone aren't atleast a little inferior, then why are the yanks absolutely butchering their reels with aftermarket double dog mods that compromise the reels waterproofness and void there warranties. Dogs act as more of a backup in modern eggbeater reels, but they are far more important in overheads.
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I don't think A/R's are a compromise at all in spinners. The large size of the rotors allows very big diametre AR bearings to fit and these are very strong and efficient ie because they are generally larger in diametre they have more mechanical advantage (read leverage) over the shaft they are looking to stop. They also act on the rotor itself rather than the handle shaft which is mechanically superior. Its a different story in overheads. Firstly compact modern jig reels don't have the space available (like eggbeaters) to have oversized AR bearings. In addition, if they are to achieve free spool, the bearings must act on the main shaft/handle. The frozen spool can only act on the AR bearing first via a gear set which is not as precise and results in alot more backlash. I think that in overheads depending on AR's alone, or pairs of them in the case of a lot of accurate overheads, might not be the best case scenario - no coincidence then that if you read US threads there are alot of twin AR bearing failures in the Accurates they love so much. If the AR's alone aren't atleast a little inferior, then why are the yanks absolutely butchering their reels with aftermarket double dog mods that compromise the reels waterproofness and void there warranties. Dogs act as more of a backup in modern eggbeater reels, but they are far more important in overheads.
Owned and worked on these reels for many years. They 100% do not fail when maintained properly. People fit aftermarket systems because word of mouth can convince people to do almost anything.
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Yeah I 'spose people love to tinker don't they. Come to think of the Studio Ocean Mark Blue Heavens come with double AR's and no dog gears do they? I nearly bought one and can't remember reading any AR dramas with those reels and they cop an absolute flogging!
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I use both overhead and spin and always found the spin less comfortable to jig with- I could never get a smooth retrieve happening . The one down side with the overhead was less stabilty- About 5 years ago I talked the the bloke who builds my rods and he suggested an "acid wrapped" configuration. I figured out that what he meant was the guides spiralling round from above to below. (how he came to call it acid wrapped I can only guess) I tried it and Bingo- great stabilty and all the comfort and control of an overhead. Currently using a Blue heaven L120 and a couple of Accurates. The BH is a joy and really easy to maintain. :)
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I definitely can't jig as fast with overheads as i can with spinning reels. I use my overhead ishy for 300+ jigs though and find that i tire too quickly if i go hard. I'll tend to use centre weighted jigs that are easier to work slower. If a fast retreive was all that was working though, I'd last longer with spinning reels. And just curious, what handles do you guys prefer with your overheads. The T-bar style handle of the blue heavens or the round machined handle on the 'aussie' accurates. On the blue heavens, how long is the standard handle (centre to centre)?
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Have a couple of overheads and a couple of spin reels ,i find the spin reel much easier to jig with.Have ball handles on all of them, the T-bar Handel gives me a blister between my fingers, although in saying that i have not tried the T-bar with glove's ,think it's a personal preference to what one prefers.
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Definately find overheads smoother and less fatiguing than a spinning reels although in shallow water and light jigs they are not to bad Woz