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Extreme Jigging: Dogtooth Tuna, Yellowtail Kingfish (Hiramasa), Amberjack, Samson Fish => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Corey Howell on October 02, 2012, 04:13:59 PM
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heavy jigging fiends - advice appreciated
going after dogs with new jig outfit - Saltiga Expedition + Wilson Venom 450 + Jigman X8 100LB
hooks and rig sorted, but would really appreciate any suggestions on what test/diam mono leader to use?!
two main spots
1. typical tropical coral reef dropoff - jigging depth 50 to 150m
2. live submarine volcano - no coral or any sort of growth for the dogs to play in - but LOTS of sharks. jigging depth 50 to 200m [the dogs go real deep when SSTs hit 31C]
thanks for any feedback!
Corey
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....85 views for 0 replies....um, pretty ordinary fortnights fishing. trying again:
jigging for doggies with Saltiga Expedition + Wilson Venom 450 + Jigman X8 100LB - can anyone offer some experience with best length and diam/test mono leader to use for
A. volcano with no sharp coral/edges but lotsa sharks
B. normal coral dropoff
thanks!
Corey
Peava Village
Solomon Islands
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There is really no correct answer to this. A heavier leader will of course provide more safety but sometimes, if they are a bit cautious, You will not get a single hit on heavy leader. I'd start around 130lb and see.
On the volcano area, it's simple - don't fish there. All you will succeed in doing is killing a stack of doggies without landing one. The sharks will destroy every fish you hook.
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thanks for the sobering advice Brandon :-[
like all seamounts, the shark - and fish - activity on our volcano varies dramatically with currents et al. after having trolled and speared there for 15 years, i've learnt that when the sharks are ON you simply move on to another seamount - no one enjoys donating apex predators like large doggies to the noahs
it's taken a couple of years to afford this heavy jig outfit, and losing spools of PE8 is not something i can afford to do on a regular basis, nor do i want to see doggies sporting jewellery, so i'm doing everything i can to reduce the tackle loss
so start with 130 leader and work up. cool. what about length? long enough for a couple of wraps on the spool when the fish is next to the boat ?
thanks for the advice on this!
Corey
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the jigging structure in question [when its subaerial]
(http://s11.postimage.org/95if14w3j/dogtooth_island.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/95if14w3j/)
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Again, no set rules. I like enough length so you can leader a fish next to the boat.
Corey, do you live in the area? If you're living in the region of Marovo, you should have access to loads of GTs
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yes mate, i live on Gatokae, the eastern tip of Marovo. awesome GTs but when you live with em you start looking for something different - hence the new doggie jigging investment
i only use the gear occasionally, the Wilderness guides have got the real work proving up best jigging locations for clients, fun to help out
had some friends bring the outift over and we went out Tue evening to christen it out the front, got annihilated three times in a row - saltiga drag wound out on 100lb jigman and the venom 450 noodled - didnt even slow them down let alone looking like turning their heads before they got back to the bottom. was sobering stuff. back to the drawing board ;)
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after getting smoked tried again with 50cm of 026 single strand wire in the hope that might help when the dog reached the bottom, but in typical tuna fashion they wouldnt bite with that wire on there, despite being 100m down, on dusk, with a lumo jig - gotta love those doggie eyes eh.
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sobering stuff reading thru the posts rgds jigging XL doggies, and the broad consensus that most-if-not-all of em r simply going to just blow you away. no contest. despite all the technology in yr $ gear investment, travel expenditure and effort, practice, experience etc etc. and not to forget time spent on forums ;)
thats one helluva summation of the doggie as a worthy opponent. and after being repeatedly [0 from 12 encounters and counting] blown away on 100lb braid and Z6500, well.......i'm not about to refute that conclusion
to take the discussion into realms i most likely cant afford - and prob not physically handle [and without taking all the fun out of it like the 130lb-chair-outfit-in-the-covering-board tactics the Van guys resort to] what happens when you go all out with gear and try stopping the bastards with 200lb braid on custom ultra heavy spin gear? is anyone managing to bully their way beyond the simple laws of physics as laid down by XL doggies?
gym memberships? roids? amphetamines ?
good luck!
Corey
Solomon Islands
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0 for 12 is massively unlucky man!! as you say! crazy fish to catch!!
guess its about what you can handle + what the fish will still take - leader wise... + lots and lots of Luck.
looking fwd to a pic of one of the monsters when your luck changes
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mmmm. luck. due for some !
Z6500 drag wound tight's just not enough to turn their heads - the 200lb hard mono pops soon as they reach that bottom, so i dont think an extra foot or even two of wire's gonna make a huge difference to be honest as its particularly rugged terrain down there - funny how the dogs hang right on the roughest stuff isnt it ;) and the strike rate drops radically with the wire......
swapping horses to those crazy pimped overheads like the JM guys use IS an obvious option in going heavier, but am so enjoying the eggbeater setup and all the flexibility it provides [using 450g Venom jigstick for jig+pop+tuna+marlin - one split ring change]
any experiences out there on pumping up the eggbeater option to really take the fight to these dogs ? to somewhere well north of 50lbs drag ?
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We also took a spanking at the Chesterfield reef recently on the doggies. I think you get lucky with the big ones, hooked well off bottom, as much drag as possible and run the boat as fast as possible for deep water. We got beaten with JM, Stella and Alutecnos 12c reels all wound up much as drag as possibe, even with 2 thumb pressure. Even the JM guys got spanked more often than not, losing 200+ jigs I understand.
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thanks for the Chesterfield insights mate!
at least i only have to travel five minutes from my house to lose jigs, not halfway across the bloody Coral sea. makes me feel much better ;)
managed to get a couple on maybe halfway up, but couldnt stop em going straight home. time to stock up on cheap eBay jigs and keep trying eh!
been fishing solo so bit of a challenge gunning the boat off the reef same time as getting pulled over the side. will grab one of the guides and try the skulldrag approach, thanks!
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200 plus jigs?!
We also took a spanking at the Chesterfield reef recently on the doggies. I think you get lucky with the big ones, hooked well off bottom, as much drag as possible and run the boat as fast as possible for deep water. We got beaten with JM, Stella and Alutecnos 12c reels all wound up much as drag as possibe, even with 2 thumb pressure. Even the JM guys got spanked more often than not, losing 200+ jigs I understand.
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Brandon, that is the rumour
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Stu - hows the ciguatera out there in the Chesterfields - big pelagics OK?
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i mean big doggies / spanish et al ? safe to eat out there ?
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We ate wahoo and one doggie with no obvious ill effects. I understand the pelegics are all safe so kept a yellowfin and a mahimahi. Released everything else including coral trout and of course the GT's, although the sharks got some of these and the released dogtooths.
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sounds like trip of a lifetime mate - great effort!
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sobering stuff reading thru the posts rgds jigging XL doggies, and the broad consensus that most-if-not-all of em r simply going to just blow you away. no contest. despite all the technology in yr $ gear investment, travel expenditure and effort, practice, experience etc etc. and not to forget time spent on forums ;)
thats one helluva summation of the doggie as a worthy opponent. and after being repeatedly [0 from 12 encounters and counting] blown away on 100lb braid and Z6500, well.......i'm not about to refute that conclusion
to take the discussion into realms i most likely cant afford - and prob not physically handle [and without taking all the fun out of it like the 130lb-chair-outfit-in-the-covering-board tactics the Van guys resort to] what happens when you go all out with gear and try stopping the bastards with 200lb braid on custom ultra heavy spin gear? is anyone managing to bully their way beyond the simple laws of physics as laid down by XL doggies?
gym memberships? roids? amphetamines ?
good luck!
Corey
Solomon Islands
I am not talking out of personal experience here, as I have yet to encounter doggies in this size range.
But I know for some guys the key to succes when hooking up unstoppable dogtooth tuna has been to flick the bail and take the boat to deeper water to fight the fish from there. Apparently the fish tend to flee to deep water - away from the reef. And obviously it is more difficult for the fish to cut a semi-slack line on the rocks.
Like I said, some have had great success with this method but seem to keep it to themselves. You might give it a try.
Lars
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gracias for that info Lars!
have used the "give em freespool to change their mind" approach with success in other big fish situations but have to admit havent been game to use it on dogs [counterintuitive as it is :o ]
since prev posts i've been getting the hang of the 'hook em hold em drag em' approach - gunning the boat out into the blue the second we get connected, with hand on the spool for extra drag and on the bail to stop it lifting, big improvement over just sitting parked on the edge whilst they take you to the cleanes, but unfor so far they're still making it to the bottom before we can get em out to the 200 metre mark
will take a leap of faith and try flipping the bail instead of stomping it
luck!
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Why isn't anyone talking about Fluorocarbon Leader.????Yo-Zuri H.D.knots well to the main line as it's considered a supple leader be it your FG knot would need to be double the length of a popping one.The Disappearing Pink is all but invisible in water,has twice the scratch resistance as mono and every good Kingie fisher I now won't use anything else as they can be very leader shy also.It goes up to 400 lb.