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Extreme Jigging: Dogtooth Tuna, Yellowtail Kingfish (Hiramasa), Amberjack, Samson Fish => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Brandon Khoo on April 05, 2007, 08:04:55 PM
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I'm interested in what type of leader connection people use for jigging. For me, I use a bimimi double/albright connection. I usually have a leader which is about four metres long. For jigging, I don't really care about how bulky the knot connection is between braid and leader as long as it fits through the guides.
one point of interest - is a bimimi double really necessary for jigging? Last week, I fished with a friend who is so far ahead of me in jigging ability and expertise that it's not funny and he uses a albright to a single strand of braid.
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Hi Brandon,
I've typically used single PE mainline to albright. I also use a bimini to connect the shock leader via a no-name/bristol knot - it's a pretty neat connection and also use a midknot occasionally.
It may come down to how confident you are with your knots. Do you feel you have more confidence with the bimini/albright rather than the single PE/albright?
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not really, Luke. I'm pretty confident with all the knots I actually use. Would here be any difference in strength between a single strand PE alright connection or a double bimimi albright? I don't know.
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not really, Luke. I'm pretty confident with all the knots I actually use. Would here be any difference in strength between a single strand PE alright connection or a double bimimi albright? I don't know.
I don't think there would be in my opinion.
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Bernie, I'm basically the same as you but sometimes put in 1mt of 80lb breakaway leader between the 70lb Jigman and Duel 170lb Fluro HD [thin].
On my light outfit [Stella 8000] I use just the 50lb Jigman to Duel 80lb Fluro.
On the boat outfit [Spheros for everybody to use] I use 70lb Jigman to a 80/150lb dacron/mono wind on.
PS: Spheros didn't lose it's virginity on 'not' so Good Friday. :'(
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Greg - I have at times used a breakaway leader as well of about one metre in length but I usually use about 80lb mono to 100lb PE. I see you're using 80lb breakway to 70 pound PE. Is this because the PE has a higher breaking strain that stated?
Bernie, I'm basically the same as you but sometimes put in 1mt of 80lb breakaway leader between the 70lb Jigman and Duel 170lb Fluro HD [thin].
On my light outfit [Stella 8000] I use just the 50lb Jigman to Duel 80lb Fluro.
On the boat outfit [Spheros for everybody to use] I use 70lb Jigman to a 80/150lb dacron/mono wind on.
PS: Spheros didn't lose it's virginity on 'not' so Good Friday. :'(
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Yes, with most braids being a lot higher breaking strain than stated my theory is the line will break at the mono/fluro knot, being a single mono albright. So far luckily I've never needed to test it.
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it's funny but when you get snagged when jigging, that is the one time when you wish your knots are no good!!
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Or just the weakest link.
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Like most, I'always used bimini/albright and haven't had a failure. I do muck around using a GT knot, but this requires the bimini 'loop' be intact so when I change/replace a leader I end up using the albright. Most usual standard is PE8 bimini/albright 150/200lb mono leader.
Andrew
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I use the bimini/no name knot a lot in my lighter tackle but had some unravel in the heavy classes while testing, it was worse with fluro, but no trouble with the albright.
I was originally using Momoi XL [hard shelled] mono, but now use Duel HD
150lb fluro which is only about .80mm dia.
Luke, how many turns do you put in the no name knot.
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I use the bimini/no name knot a lot in my lighter tackle but had some unravel in the heavy classes while testing, it was worse with fluro, but no trouble with the albright.
I was originally using Momoi XL [hard shelled] momo, but now use Duel HD
150lb fluro which is only about .80mm dia.
Luke, how many turns do you put in the no name knot.
Hi Greg,
I use 6-8 in heavy classes. It will only ever slip if you haven't snugged it tight to begin with, combined with water lubrication it can simply undo as you mentioned. It's similar to how much a uni knot can slip when you haven't tightened enough, so with the small tag, the bristol/no-name will simply destroy itself.
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I've liked the knot and used it for years on my 4-10kg spinning and trolling outfits, mono and braid. I'll just have to do some practice on the 15-37kg setups.
thanks luke
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Hi all
Bimini does test higher than single strand, which is probably no surprise to most. The question is do you need the extra b/strain? Jigging snapper and rat kings, every thing is ok, but what if 20kg+ of seriola happens along? Now are you worrying about the knots?
Personally I hate having to worry about anything other than if the fish is going to drill me into the reef or not, so on all gear the knots are done to my best ability. Murphy's law is always out there waiting to strike. You know the routine, your only targetting tiddlers with this outfit so no need to worry about any weak points, short time later sitting with slack line and sad face!!
No name knot can become difficult in heavy line 150lb+. A 'jamb' knot will be better than a friction knot (midknot exepted) the simplest type is a uni to uni, which is used by many experts. The fabled 'Fisherman knot', the one that I have never got around to posting, is still the best I have used.
By the way the bimini comes out on top of the knots you would tie in a boat or in a hurry, I've been testing some other systems that may break above a bimini(especially in jap braid) but at the moment are to long winded to bother with at sea.
Will let you know.
Neil
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Hi all
Bimini does test higher than single strand, which is probably no surprise to most. The question is do you need the extra b/strain? Jigging snapper and rat kings, every thing is ok, but what if 20kg+ of seriola happens along? Now are you worrying about the knots?
Personally I hate having to worry about anything other than if the fish is going to drill me into the reef or not, so on all gear the knots are done to my best ability. Murphy's law is always out there waiting to strike. You know the routine, your only targetting tiddlers with this outfit so no need to worry about any weak points, short time later sitting with slack line and sad face!!
No name knot can become difficult in heavy line 150lb+. A 'jamb' knot will be better than a friction knot (midknot exepted) the simplest type is a uni to uni, which is used by many experts. The fabled 'Fisherman knot', the one that I have never got around to posting, is still the best I have used.
By the way the bimini comes out on top of the knots you would tie in a boat or in a hurry, I've been testing some other systems that may break above a bimini(especially in jap braid) but at the moment are to long winded to bother with at sea.
Will let you know.
Neil
I do agree with you in regards to the Bimini testing higher. Like with popping, do you think there are the same shock load issues involved with jigging? I have a pittance of knowledge in comparison to yours and would like to know your opinion.
So is the concenus now that a bimini/albright is a superior connection to that of a single strand/albright?
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Staying with the Bimini sounds good to me, not so much the higher testing but not thinking about 'the knot' let alone as Neil said, 'worry'. :-\
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The fabled 'Fisherman knot', the one that I have never got around to posting, is still the best I have used.
I use the Fisherman knot with a slight modification. Very very reliable.
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Is this the knot we are referring to?
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Yes, something like that, looks similar at the start but I don't finish the knot with a Uni. Instead I do 9-10 wraps with the double on the mono, wrap back-up again (another 9-10 times) then secure/lock the wraps with 2 opposing half hitches. Once everything is in place and snugged up I pull tight. Not a fan of the albright or the bristol although these were some of the first braid-leader connections I used many years ago. Had the bristol slip several times...need to get the mono and braid diameter ratios worked out very well for the bristol to hold properly...too much of trial and error for me.
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Mark, your knot sounds a bit like the 'Slim Beauty' where the leader loop is formed by a double overhand then pulled to make a fig 8
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I much prefer the PR Knot for braid to leader. Check this link to a good photographic sequence for the PR Knot.
http://www.jigsdirect.com/eMerchantPro/pc/fishing_knots.asp
I attended the recent Jigging Festival in Osaka in March, all knot demos were tying the PR Knot.
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Hi chris do you do this PR knot out at sea say after a bust up?
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Yeah, never a problem! Tie it enough times and you can do them easily in your sleep.
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With knots for jigging, becoz you're not casting I try to keep it as simple as possible. Bimini to a GT knot or a variation of the same knot without the bimini. Otherwise albright, double unis and deckie's knot all work well.
When you're trying to cast 150lb or more leaders then you might consider your knots more carefully.
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I use the PR knot, Was shown it a year ago at the boat show by Shane and never forgotten it. Its fun and easy to tie I use it for all braid to mono connections on my jigging and livebaiting reels and it works really well.
If I could say one thing aout the knot is if you have a green fish with the leader just on the rod and he decides to run the mono blob can catch on its way back through. I have only ever experienced this in shallow water for kings and never in the deep though
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the only way the knot will catch on the guide if the leader's tag is facing forward. That's why I use knots that faces back so that way the only way that it'll catch the guides is when you retrieve.
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but how often do you get the fish running hard when the leader is on the reel?
For jigging why tie more knots that you have to?
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I'm just getting into GT popping & need some advice. My outfit is a Stella 10000 with 80lbs Saltiga coloured braid on a Saltiga 86 rod. What leader (mono vs fluoro), at what strength and knot can anyone suggest? I've read in a local magazine that the bimini used with this particular line broke consistently at 18kg(40lbs) when tested.
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I'm just getting into GT popping & need some advice. My outfit is a Stella 10000 with 80lbs Saltiga coloured braid on a Saltiga 86 rod. What leader (mono vs fluoro), at what strength and knot can anyone suggest? I've read in a local magazine that the bimini used with this particular line broke consistently at 18kg(40lbs) when tested.
Hi Andrew,
It may be useful if you also told us where you would be fishing, what rod, preference for poppers/stickbaits etc...
In simple terms you could opt for a 70-turn Bimini twist (I've never had a problem and ignore the magazine reports) cat's pawed to a twisted leader (80 - 100lb leader e.g. Shogun, MoiMoi, Fisherman, Varivas, Jinkai etc.) of desired length (do forum search...length 2 - 5 metres). Alternatively, if you wanted to run a shorter leader, you could cat's paw to a round-edged solid ring knotted via 5-turn uni knot, or connect bimini straight to nylon via Albright, Bristol knots etc...
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I'm just getting into GT popping & need some advice. My outfit is a Stella 10000 with 80lbs Saltiga coloured braid on a Saltiga 86 rod. What leader (mono vs fluoro), at what strength and knot can anyone suggest? I've read in a local magazine that the bimini used with this particular line broke consistently at 18kg(40lbs) when tested.
Luke wrapped it up comprehensively but i'll tell you what we do.
We run Stella 10000 and 80lb tufline XP. Bimini twist in mainline, of whatever twists you like, the overall knot section should be an inch+ long though. With this we've never had a failure. Attach this by a cats paw to a twisted leader of 2.5m. We use 130lb Galis, the line material used for this leader is highly variable though.
Attach the cats paw making sure it sits snugly along the sides of the end loop of the twisted leader and is not pulling on the main end point - if you know what I mean. PM if you dont and i'll try to explain better. Any learner questions just PM me, myself and Warwick knew nothing about this sport ;ess than a year ago - and while we are still very much still learning I think we have learnt enough to a degree where we can help those just into the sport with explaining the basics. I still remember my first twisted leader...imagaine salvador dali meets baden powell (ie A MESS) :D
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I notice wind on leaders dont get much of a mention... ??? ???
People had bad experiences with them... ???
Pete
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Cam and Dave Foley, plus a few of their jigging 'crew' use them all the time in NZ, they are all set up ready to connect to a Bimini, the Kiwi Jiggers are split between the PR knot and the Windon ???. I started off jigging with the Windon years ago as a follow through from my game fishing days and always have them on hand, but as I am a 'Knot Nut' I use a full range of knots except for the PR knot, no interest as yet :-\. My 'guest' jigging combos on my boat are set up with windons, as well as an easy setup it also covers me from the blame in case of knot failure :P.
IMO the windon is the toughest/safest connection
Good cabin fever weather at the moment to make windons Pete :D F#@&% winds >:(
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Yeah, never a problem! Tie it enough times and you can do them easily in your sleep.
I have recently started using PR knots with a bobbin. Yes, the 1st few attempts were challenging but once you get the hang of it... no problems at all. In fact, i am starting to forget how to tie the other knots :)
I use it now both jigging & popping.
Brandon: Yes! the only time i don't appreciate my knot strength is when it get stuck. Had a hard time that day with PE4!
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Cam and Dave Foley, plus a few of their jigging 'crew' use them all the time in NZ, they are all set up ready to connect to a Bimini, the Kiwi Jiggers are split between the PR knot and the Windon ???. I started off jigging with the Windon years ago as a follow through from my game fishing days and always have them on hand, but as I am a 'Knot Nut' I use a full range of knots except for the PR knot, no interest as yet :-\. My 'guest' jigging combos on my boat are set up with windons, as well as an easy setup it also covers me from the blame in case of knot failure :P.
IMO the windon is the toughest/safest connection
Good cabin fever weather at the moment to make windons Pete :D F#@&% winds >:(
Not wrong Greg.....3 weeks of wind now..!!!
January is a bad month I reckon. >:(
Pete
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bimini in the braid to gt knot flurocarbon leader. very quick and easy and has never failed me
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PR Knot to 3 metres of flurocarbon. Works just fine.
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Hi Guys,
I use a bimini / albright combination when jigging. I have been using this combination for years and have never had any issues.
If the bight is hot and i bust off i have been known to just use a double uni when desperate but only if the fish are not overly large.
I am considering investing in a bobbin and trying the PR knot for jigging.
There is also the option of attaching a wind on but only when there are not too many anglers on the boat as tangles can get expensive.
Leader length and strength: I generally use about 2 -3 metres of 100lb.
Main line: 80lb TD Acudepth
Regards,
Chris
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I'm also interested in people's opinions on the bimini/double to allbright vs. single strand to allbright
Has anyone tested these against eachother?
A mate has recently run through tying pe.6 to 80lb flouro and has found a bimini double to slim beauty has outdone the allbright when pulling them till they pop...
I'm sticking with wind ons at the moment. Would be interesting to see others opinions on this as I'm keen on stickbaiting next season here would prefer to run knots instead of wind ons when casting.
Cheers
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yeah... Slim Beauty is gonna be a lot stronger than the Albright. Albright is easy to tie and only good for light line, i find that you can get 20% stronger on the slim beauty.
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FG or PR knots all the way, after I learnt the FG knot I now use it exclusively right down to 20lb braid.
What a great knot :D
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50 turn Bimini and then the Improved allbright is what I use in PE6 to 80lb or 100lb leader and PE8-130lb, the improved allbright is a lot stronger than the normal allbright only downside is that it ends up long and chunky but its only for jigging and bottom fishing so who cares. Never had one break yet, the braid will snap before the knot does when you get snagged. One day I'll learn the FG or PR.