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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Jay Burgess on November 23, 2010, 12:48:23 PM
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Hi guys worth the read if you get time;
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=768370 (http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=768370)
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Very interesting Jay and thanks. Nobody reviews a reel quite like Alan Hawk :o.
I was unaware of the significantly increased line capacity of the new small Saltigas. That has to be a plus for the popping fraternity.
The rest of Alan's review hardly makes you want to run out and buy one in preference to a Stella though.
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yes, his review was less than complimentary in comparison against the 08 Stella. Anyway, I've got one so will be in a position to do a field test side by side against the Stella in a fortnight's time. No better way of doing a comparison.
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yes, his review was less than complimentary in comparison against the 08 Stella. Anyway, I've got one so will be in a position to do a field test side by side against the Stella in a fortnight's time. No better way of doing a comparison.
Will you be testing it for popping Brandon?
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I was lucky enough enough to demo a 5000H over in NZ last week. Gotta say it feels really nice. Interesting review, particularly when you look at the price they are asking (compared to the stella).
I think one of its greatest criticisms is also one of its greatest virtues though, I have about 4 spare 4500 spools looking for a new home, and I reckon a new 5000H will have me covered for PE4, Pe5 and now Pe6 work - with the collection of spools - you gotta love that.
I reckon the longer handle that comes with the saltiga (compared to a stella - even a yumeya long handle) makes a huge difference in comfort and leverage for a reel of that caliber!
I like it! Saltiga 2010 - "Old Skool".....cool.
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yes indeed!
yes, his review was less than complimentary in comparison against the 08 Stella. Anyway, I've got one so will be in a position to do a field test side by side against the Stella in a fortnight's time. No better way of doing a comparison.
Will you be testing it for popping Brandon?
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What's the price comparison like in Australia guys?
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Mark
I hear retail for the 5000 is $1299 AU. I note Motackle has them listed for $1249, they also list a Stella SW 10000 for $999 - if that's an indication of where retail is at!
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Whoa! That's a huge price difference. Madness!
Cheers Peter.
When I bought a Dogfight instead of a second SW18000, a key factor was it being a fair bit cheaper than the Stella option. That now seems to be reversing or have Saltigas always been especially expensive in Australia?
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Mark,
I think Shimano had a major price reduction about 8 - 12 months ago on the high end ranges. Saltigas have stayed about the same, but the new model is significantly more expensive than the old one! Ithink they are going to have some stiff competition, can't imagine they will be able to sustain those retail prices.
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there was a 20% or 25% price increase imposed by Daiwa on the new Saltiga. They were saying at the tackle show that there was going to be a price increase of this magnitude when the new reels came in. It's very hard to understand that when the exchange rate has moved some 33% in their favour (60 to 80 yen to the AUD) so if you look at it that way, then the price increase starts to look a little ludicrous. They can't blame Daiwa Japan for the price here because you only need to look at the price of the reel in other countries.
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Mark, the Saltigas have been more expensive than the Stellas in Australia. However, this seems to be reversed O/S, particularly out of Japan.
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Thanks guys. Daiwa Australia must be absolutely raking it in, especially with that FX rate movement Brandon describes.
Previously as I am sure most know, Saltigas have been cheaper than Stellas overseas. As I said before that is the only reason I bought a Dogfight. Looking around, that gap has disappeared somewhat with the new Saltigas being priced similarly to a JDM Stella. In Australia though it seems the new Saltigas are massively more expensive than the equivalent Stella.
This all seems very strange and out of kilter.
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You also must note that the Saltigas have been out alot longer than the 08 Stella.
If you look harder, Saltigas are only sold in Tournament dealer shop and as such competition between stores are minimized. Whereas the Stellas were readily available at any stores that carry Shimano product. Really the Stellas have been better value on average than the Saltigas. If the Saltigas were available to more stores, then you'll see the prices drop significantly.
Imo, both reels are just as good as each other but the Stellas just edges infront with more variety of sizes and the drag setup and performance is unmatched so far......
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The old Saltigas were more expensive than the Stella FA series but when the Stella SW series come out , the Saltigas were cheaper but now the new Saltigas are released , the whole cycle is repeated again and usually during the first few months of the new release , prices are very high but 12 months later , they supplier will start reducing price to get customers . As for situation in Oz , as Brandon described the exchange rate is in favour of buying from overseas rather than buying from local retailer although with JPY there aren't much can be expected as JPY appreciate pretty much the same as AUD against other currencies , most of all to USD .
Jon .
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Wait until a red, yellow or even green 2010 Saltiga comes out! Dig deep boys!
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I have a few friends who work in the corporate offices in Anacaonda and Daiwa have a strict policy to all stores that stock thier items that price cutting is not allowed. Ever see the catalogues when they have thier 30% off all fishing equipment (excludes DAIWA branded items). Price fixing at its bet, Daiwa Australia is controlling what the retailers sell for so inflated prices on Saltigas are here to stay!
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Having used the new Saltiga 5000H - I really like them. The Drag is great, v.good spool capacity, very water resistant, good size / weight and sensible retrieve ratio's available to the Aussie market. I expect they will handle the rigours of what they've been built for and they look the goods also.
I'd have one in a flash, and keep my Stella's also.
Cheers David
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i see there on ebay already Z500H JMD, Price Aus $1253.00 Plus air frieght say $35.00 with insurance .
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I had a play with a couple of them at a mates shop the other day and they feel very nice, good to see a reel with a larger spool that fills in the gap like the 8000sw My only gripe was the spool colours don't really match with the grey rotor etc. Soon as they release a red one I'm grabbing it. Price was $1300 for the larger model. Thanks for the correction.
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SW6000 Stella?? not the right size to compare to the saltiga5000 or the 4500. The current SW6000 is a PE3 reel, ie small like the previous model 5000, just with a little more capacity.
The current comparable Stellas are the 8000 and 10000, with optional Yumeya 12000 spool.
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Although these new saltigas are in the smaller size its a fair guess the larger sizes when released will be comparable in terms of workmanship. i have had a dogfight for nearly 3 years and its only been used on lbg i have never had any complaint i think its a tank . I did buy the 18000 however due to weather over the last 12 months in qld have yet to fully test it out on something decent
the main reason was for purchase was to i needed a reel match with a ripple fisher tuna 86 loved how smooth the gears were . When Daiwa bring out the larger models i will be interested to see reactions.
what i found interesting recently was a conversation i had a one of the larger tackle stores i frequent one of the guys who works there and i wont name names or the tackle store said earlier in the year they went out with one of the sponsors and a number of brand new Stella 18000 7 out of 9 (i cannot confirm what he said) structuarly failed totally i.e gears supposedly 1 wouldnt even wind from the box among the group who went on the experdtion sometimes all manufactures get a bad batch.
i would love to really check the details however doubt if i can confirm and its hearsay . As this is the first time i heard of the SW failing
regardless of reviews i will not be influenced by somebody who takes a reel apart and thinks they know it as well as the engineers who built it !!!
i will fish with both Saltiga and Stella and compare over time . My Stella has yet to go through the punishment dished out on the rocks yes you don't often get giant gt but the conditions when rock fishing put your reel through more wear especially high speed spinning where you are casting and winding at full speed for over 6/8 hours in a day secondly salt water and all the other stuff . the 10000 SW became last year the new reel ppl were using as the season kicked off some happy some have sold i am the only one with the 18000 simply i wanted to move into popping at some point and the fact you can up grade spool size if saltiga had a spool as big probably might have got it . It to often becomes a polarised debate i wil buy the new larger saltiga next year and give it a thrashing. instead of doing that to my stella and spare 200000 spool though probably do both if the waethers good
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Amazing how many times you hear stories about Stellas failing this way and Saltigas failing that way...... never seems to be first hand. I really don't think we need another Stella vs Saltiga debate full of second hand stories.
What is relevant at the moment is the performance of the new (incredibly expensive) small Saltigas.
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I agree, Mark. I don't know how many times I have heard these fables emanating from tackle stores about how we broke 14 Stellas or crushed 10 Saltigas and everyone of them failed. If we are going to get breakages, I'd expect to see more of them from our membership here than anywhere else for the simple reason that we ask more from the reels than most, if not all other forms of fishing. 7 out of 9 Stella 18000s failing? Please ........ ;)
I wonder how much of this rubbish is driven by the fact that some stores are aligned with one manufacturer.
I'm also aware of another wannabe manufacturer who goes around telling tackle stores that he can't even get one trip out of a Stella without it breaking.
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After reading alan hawk's review, it seems that there are some features of the saltiga which are a little dubious in a reel of that calibre. If its supposed to be the pinnacle of spinning reels why would it be made with 2nd rate bearings for example? maybe it makes no difference to performance but it says something about the objectives of the person who designed and made it, if they set out to make it the best it could be, it would not have used anything but the best components available. And theres the adoption of some of the things shimano use such as one piece bail, tapered spool lip, but the failure to pick up on other things like the below spool/ twin drag. shimano may not have invented these ideas, but they do seem like good ones.
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Amazing how many times you hear stories about Stellas failing this way and Saltigas failing that way...... never seems to be first hand. I really don't think we need another Stella vs Saltiga debate full of second hand stories.
What is relevant at the moment is the performance of the new (incredibly expensive) small Saltigas.
Agree totally....
always second hand tales.
The most disturbing thing for me out of all this is WHY Daiwa Australia are putting such an obscene price on this reel when there is no justification for it for reasons Brandon has already outlined.
Pete
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Isn't price fixing "illegal"??
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Looks like were in for another marathon post !!! this ones going to be priceless . :)
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Isn't price fixing "illegal"??
Only amongst competitors, where this more like shooting oneself in the foot ;D
'Go Ford'
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Some real experience stories, preferably about the new Saltigas, would be good :).
I did once break a Stella SW18000 by the way... I dropped it onto a stone floor and cracked the housing. Hardly Shimano's fault :).
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I will comment briefly on prices in Australia for starters there is a serious lack of competition no fishing tackle wholesaler or daiwa and shimano will sell products to you as a business unless you have a physical retail store address as a result their are not a huge amount of online shops those that exist are part of a retail tackle store which means anglers cannot shop around within Australia much not to mention similar to car dealships for reels location plays a key on weather they will supply you even if you do have a retail store
secondly you cannot go ahead and just import the reels from a wholesaler overseas for example this is considered an infringement of intellectual property Rights and trademark identity shimano in Australia have notices lodge with the customs office for everyone of their products so if you do arrange for some to be imported order them fill out your import documents they will not clear customs . shimano notice lodged with custom's link shows all there product list http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/miniSites/ipData/T00262-01.asp (http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/miniSites/ipData/T00262-01.asp) here's the link for all companies notice Daiwa not on it but legally they can file a notice at any time so first shipment fine second doesn't clear big gamble http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/miniSites/ipData/ (http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/miniSites/ipData/)
so you are limited here in Australia to a few online stores provided my actual retail outlets as you cannot just set up online store yourself so you have to travel from store to store wether it is the tacklestores pushing the price or shimano /daiwa i cannot comment i have heard various debates on this.
Let's not hi-jack the thread.
And...coming from the tackle industry for one of the aforementioned parties in the past - I grossly disagree with you about many points.
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At the end of the day, we all have little jibes here and there (myself included) but the two top running manufacturers produce some superb products. And my professional stance is just that - you can agree to disagree but there is top of the line equipment coming out of either camps.
Cut me and I'll bleed Shimano - I couldn't care less what is going on in the world of Daiwa because I'm comfortable that what I use personally is the best out there for the application. If it breaks, then feedback will be passed along the chain to make the improvement and innovation - that is what makes these products so fantastic is today's modern age. Coupled with more extreme environments and anglers willing to fish the extra mile - it wouldn't be of interest to me if I beat a GT or Doggie every opportunity I encountered them :P
No product out there is impervious, and even the next rich bloke's Ferrari or Lambo needs upkeep, maintanance and TLC to perform at it's peak. You can't be responsible for the dope that's left a nail on the bitumen and gives you a flat!
Those are only general comments about all this Shimano vs. Daiwa banter. I'm not interested in the discussion about second rate parts or pricing - I'm not commenting about that.
Let's please keep the discussion objective and keep the emotion out. Thanks Boys 8)
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sorry for the hijack luke previous posts were talking about prices should have kept my opinons to myself
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sorry for the hijack luke previous posts were talking about prices should have kept my opinons to myself
cheers
No worries mate. Just trying to keep this on track.
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Hey guys, had the opprtunity to fish the both the stella SW 10000 and new Saltiga 5000H side by side in NZ. I love em both! One of each thanks.
I remember the days of getting smoked by fair to middling fish on my 850 SS Spinfisher loaded with 30lb Maxima mono attached to a butterworth 7'6" full glass rod (and that was state of the art at the time - drool worthy)! Boy how times have changed - and the captures we now enjoy.
Gotta say, every one of those kings in NZ would have kicked my arse on that gear - that is assuming I could even lob the stickbait out in front of them!
Bring on the innovation, we've got it so good now!
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..... and that about sums it up, Peter.
I've owned every model of the big Stella released since the original F series and have found them to be an exemplary reel. My experience on Daiwa isn't anywhere near as extensive but I have been very happy with the Dogfights. Both reels are proven beyond doubt. That said, at some time of another, every reel has had a fault but that is hardly a surprise when you look at what we subject them to.
I just have no time for these guys pushing fables. A few years back, I allowed myself to be drawn into a debate with a idiot on another forum who didn't deserve the time I wasted on him. He was clearly an unabashed Daiwa fan but he was making the most ludicruous claims about the Saltiga as he wanted to refute some of the debates going on about its drag system. He made a statement that his drag washers had been used to the point that they were wafer thin but that they continued to operate brilliantly and those who had changed to carbontex washers didn't know what they were doing. Right...... he obviously hadn't even fished the reel enough to know how sensitive reels of this build tolerance are to coning. If his drag washers had indeed been worn to such a point, the coning effect would have the reel unfishable.
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My experience with the new Saltiga 5000h is limited to one day's use (borrowed from a tackle shop owner from Tokyo) and I am nothing but impressed with it, with the minor exception of a plasticky feeling hand grip (couldn't bring myself to say :knob" :-X). If I had to choose one brand I would probably pick daiwa but I am happy to use either the stella or the saltiga. I am quite sure that no reasonable person would find major fault with either.
Just a point on Alan Hawke's review, it seemed thorough and he made some interesting observations but there seem to be a lot of people ready to give up on the new Saltiga based purely one one man's review. I personally appreciate the detail that he goes into but would never base any decisions on his opinion alone (or anyone else's). I am more interested to see how real users feel about it and what their experiences are.
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I own both a Stella 18000 and have just bought a spare 20000 spool for it i also have the dogfight and love both . some ppl I have noticed can be obsessive in their support of one manufacturer over another i am very much in agreement with Peter's earlier post i love the fact that there are 2 top reels and i will always try to buy both and compare and its just fun to pick up my other rod which has a different reel on it as they feel differently especially if you are spinning metals lures all day.
Both of the top reels are remarkable in their workmanship yes i do know that the dogfight drag can spike and will be changing the drag when i have time interestingly i did read Alan's reviews regards to the saltiga when it came out vs the Stella FA and then his review of of the Stella SW . this is one person who has put over the years a lot of effort in and i do appreciate that fact and love the photos and he was defiantly right in regards to the saltist reels quite a few of ppl where hoping for a low cost high speed spinning reel . I use it only for tailor spinning but never been happy enough with to test it out properly however my son 11 and already 5 foot so next year when he hits the rocks for the first time he can run amok with it .
Will i make a judgement based solely on this no i will continue to buy both as one releases a new reel i will get and when the next does so on as long as the wife doesn't audit my credit card I am totally neutral and love the difference and as Luke pointed out no reel with perform at its best unless you take the time and effort to look after it and maintain it
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Alan's other job is being the tough judge on Masterchef...
"Now lets talk about that bouillabaisse shall we....." ??? ;D ;D
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I have several of each. Both are fantastic reels & I personally cant fault either one.
There is always room for each manufacture in my collection.
I love them both equally…… :)
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Both of the top reels are remarkable in their workmanship yes i do know that the dogfight drag can spike and will be changing the drag when i have time interestingly i did read Alan's reviews regards to the saltiga when it came out vs the Stella FA and then his review of of the Stella SW .
If you bought your Dogfight fairly recently, there should be no need to change the drag as Daiwa seemingly solved that issue. I certainly do not have that problem with mine which was purchased early this year and it has been used extensively.
Like several others have said, I also have no particular brand loyalty fishing the Dogfight alongside a SW18000. I like both in different ways. They are after all very different reels.
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Hi mark bought it feb last year so should i change or is it fine
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With both companies bringing out top end products it almost comes down to secondary factors - for me anyway. After sale service, warranty, how they treat the customer starts to become a deciding factor.
Currently my three main reels i use are daiwas but the fact they have raised their prices when shimano has dropped theirs and amazing warranty service I've received on both a tcurve and Stella claim, where heavy handed fishing was probably the main factor in the failure means I'm starting to come back to the shimano camp. Now if only they'd get rid of that hideous gold sw colour scheme.
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Now if only they'd get rid of that hideous gold sw colour scheme.
I like that colour scheme!! :D
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and amazing warranty service I've received on both a tcurve and Stella claim, where heavy handed fishing was probably the main factor in the failure
What model of stella is this? FA or SW? what sort of failure happened? thanks a lot.
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Now if only they'd get rid of that hideous gold sw colour scheme.
So with you on that point Travis. Even worse is that Shimano seem to think that non-Japanese actually like this orangey gold colour. The domestic colour scheme is so much better.
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Reviving this thread :).
Any more users bought and used a 2010 Saltiga and care to share their views?
I am seriously considering getting a 5000H for use as a PE6 casting reel. Cant seem to find the capacity for PE6 but I reckon 220-230 would be possible without overloading. My local tackle store will do me a deal from stock on a 5000H at the equivalent of AUD1000.
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Reviving this thread :).
Any more users bought and used a 2010 Saltiga and care to share their views?
I am seriously considering getting a 5000H for use as a PE6 casting reel. Cant seem to find the capacity for PE6 but I reckon 220-230 would be possible without overloading. My local tackle store will do me a deal from stock on a 5000H at the equivalent of AUD1000.
Is there a spool upgrade for the 2010 Saltiga, equivalent to the SOM 16000 that's available for the Stella SW10000?
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I have not yet heard of one Jay.
SOM have produced a lot of Daiwa spools in the past so it would not surprise me at all if there is one or at least one in the works. A 6000 Daiwa size SOM spool to go on the 5000H would be a great move and make it much more GT popping friendly. Loaded with PE6 I was thinking of it for light GT work and also for tuna casting.
The SOM website is not very English friendly but this seems to be the latest gallery of their Daiwa spools:
http://www.studio-oceanmark.com/products/gallery/index.html (http://www.studio-oceanmark.com/products/gallery/index.html)
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Hi Jay, No SOM spool for 2010 Salting has been released yet.