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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Mark Harris on February 06, 2011, 11:30:17 PM
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I have a gaping hole in my armoury for PE3-5 range casting rod. Key use would be lighter popping and casting stickbaits for Tuna, MahiMahi, Sails and I hope Kingfish one day. The stickbait element is more important to me but I would hope for the rod to handle poppers up to 100 grams. I guess it would be paired with either a (soon to be acquired) Saltiga 5000H or an existing Twinpower SW8000 HG
Any recommendations from personal experience would be really appreciated. I like longer rods so nothing shorter than 7 ft 8.
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Mark, I have such a beast, but i am not sure if it is still made. I bought a second hand Tenryu 20-30lb "plugging rod" from Mike Tan in Singapore about 5 yrs ago. its 9ft 6 inches and casts 100g pencil poppers (long pens, surface cruisers etc) like a rocket. I'm not a particulary good caster but with the wind behind me and casting downhill I've hit 90m plus. I use this as a PE 4-5 rod. I cant give you the exat name as the rod is in Perth and I am in Singapore. When I get back I can drop you the details.
Not caught any monsters on it, but have had quite a few GT's in the 10-15kg class with it. it would tame a sail easily (its too long for the boats in Rompin and too heavy for the fish too.
if I get that Bali trip sorted I'll bring it along.
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I am a bit of a fan of Tenryu (jigging rods at least) Al and I think they are very under-rated. I think a 9ft 6in rod for Tuna, Sailfish and light GT work would be pushing it though! Still would be great to have a swing with it of course. Cheers.
I am so far seriously looking at YAMAGA BLANKS Blue Sniper TUNA82/6 which seems like an excellent mid priced option, and being a Carpenter junkie, BC75MHS, although the short length is not ideal.
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I know this might seem out of place, what with the constant mention of Ripple Fishers, Carpenters, Fisherman etc etc in this forum, but Shimano make a PE 5 Caranx Kaibatsu rod that is very reasonably priced, its obviously not top line, but i have the "light pleasure" (you have to like a rod with that name) and friends have both the surface and deep monsters and they all perform brilliantly. I think its called Pencil Popper or some such. Your rod list appears to preclude this but i throw it out there. The guys at Kaiser in Singapore are also making a range of rods (Il Toro) and they may have something worth looking at.
Although too light for your uses I use the Shimano LP's with a Twinpower 5000 with 42lb PE 3 or a Saltiga 4500 with PE 4 on it and yet again it blasts poppers up to the 100g like rockets. its too small for you though at 7ft 6 inches
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Thanks Al. Sadly Kaiser do not make a rod in this category. The nearest is their PE2-4 Sailfish Special but that would too light for what I am looking for.
I still have a Kaibutsu Surface Monster lurking in a cupboard :). Not really a fan. I have picked up a Light Pleasure in a store though and it seemed a nicer rod than the heavy ones in that range.
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Mark,
One of the rods I am bringing over is a OTI Tuna Sniper 3105-865
At least thats one other option you can cast your eyes over and have a play with this week.
Jarrad
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Hi Mark,
Carpenter BC series has BC78HS if you like BC75MHS and prefer longer length. Both rods are built basically on the same blank and BC78HS has slightly softer tip. If available ;D.
There are many casting rods from many manufactures in this range but I'm not aware of any rod handles 100g popper as most of newer models are for stickbaites and relatively soft.....
Cheers,
Tak
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The only problem is getting hold of a 78HS!
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What about a Saltiga 80TN?
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Mark
I currently still own and have used quite extensively 2 rods which might suit. Both, I would instantly replace if ever broken - that is my guage of a good rod!
1) As already recommended, Saltiga 80 TN, balances nicely with the 8000 Stella / Saltiga 4500/5000, great with poppers up to 90 - 100 grams - even better as a stick bait rod up to the same size.
2) Temple Reef Stealth STK 76 (used to be Ocean Revolution). This rod, at 7'6" is slightly shorter, lighter in weight, yet stiffer in the tip than the 80 TN and available at a better price. Being slightly stiffer, I prefer it with the poppers in the same size, and use the 80 TN for stickbaits. But both do an admirable job of either though.
In stock form, the 80TN has a slightly shorter butt length than the Stealth, which makes it a little quirky for casting (if you are used to GT length butts) - but the same shorter butt makes it a great surface stickbait rod particularly when working the rod tip down - (the rod but doesn't get in the way of arm pit and elbows as readily).
Cheers
Peter
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Thanks to Tak, Peter, Jarrad, Joseph and Brandon.
On the Black Currents, I looked at the 78HS but as you say, it seems impossible to get. I can at least get hold of the BC75MHS but the length is still bugging me.
I do realise that the desire to be able to work 100 gram poppers might be pushing it with any of these rods. It is though a less important consideration for me than stickbaits.
Jarrad, I really look forward to a swing with that OTI sniper.
The Saltiga 80TN is a very interesting option. Peter, Joseph, this is the exact model you refer to right?: http://www.7seasproshop.com/product_detail.php?keyword=daiwa_daiwa_saltiga_sg_dorado_80tn (http://www.7seasproshop.com/product_detail.php?keyword=daiwa_daiwa_saltiga_sg_dorado_80tn)
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Mark
I currently still own and have used quite extensively 2 rods which might suit. Both, I would instantly replace if ever broken - that is my guage of a good rod!
1) As already recommended, Saltiga 80 TN, balances nicely with the 8000 Stella / Saltiga 4500/5000, great with poppers up to 90 - 100 grams - even better as a stick bait rod up to the same size.
2) Temple Reef Stealth STK 76 (used to be Ocean Revolution). This rod, at 7'6" is slightly shorter, lighter in weight, yet stiffer in the tip than the 80 TN and available at a better price. Being slightly stiffer, I prefer it with the poppers in the same size, and use the 80 TN for stickbaits. But both do an admirable job of either though.
In stock form, the 80TN has a slightly shorter butt length than the Stealth, which makes it a little quirky for casting (if you are used to GT length butts) - but the same shorter butt makes it a great surface stickbait rod particularly when working the rod tip down - (the rod but doesn't get in the way of arm pit and elbows as readily).
Cheers
Peter
Ditto,
The 80TN Saltiga is very capable, good value and casts a range of lures - handled kings and YFT surprisingly well. Would suit you're requirements / lure class etc. I wish I never sold mine..
The Yamaga Blue Snipers are very nice. I have the lighter PE4 (75/4) model, great for casting 40 - 70g lures. I enjoy running a Certate 3500HD & 30lb but could go a larger reel and 40/50lb if the fish were bigger..
No doubt in you're location, you'll get a lot of use and enjoyment out of what ever you end up getting..
Cheers David
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Yeah that was a nice special on the STK-76 @ JDM (http://www.jdmtackle.com/product_view.php?product_id=319), maybe saltywater has a special on them now? I think my blank was a bit over $100US. Just waiting on some k guides to build it up!
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The Saltiga 80TN is a very interesting option. Peter, Joseph, this is the exact model you refer to right?: http://www.7seasproshop.com/product_detail.php?keyword=daiwa_daiwa_saltiga_sg_dorado_80tn (http://www.7seasproshop.com/product_detail.php?keyword=daiwa_daiwa_saltiga_sg_dorado_80tn)
I have one of these and use it for metal slugs and stickbaits at around the 90g mark and have never had a problem, I use it landbased and can cast the thing a country mile. Excellent rod, I have a 4500 Catalina / PE 4 reel matched up to it and it balances perfectly.
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The Saltiga 80TN is a very interesting option. Peter, Joseph, this is the exact model you refer to right?: http://www.7seasproshop.com/product_detail.php?keyword=daiwa_daiwa_saltiga_sg_dorado_80tn (http://www.7seasproshop.com/product_detail.php?keyword=daiwa_daiwa_saltiga_sg_dorado_80tn)
That is the rod Mark. It is a great casting rod.
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I have a friend who own BC78HS in Base Custom model n when compared side by side with BC75MHS , the difference in length is attributed to the length of the handle pretty much like LR86 and LR89 LDC . The old BC75MH has 25mm ring on it's stripper guide hence when used with #4000/4500 sized reel , will make noise during a powerfull cast but the newer BC75MHS has 40mm ring guide and is no different than BC78HS in everyway .
Jon .
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Jon, so there's a 3 inch difference in handle length and the blank is pretty much the same length in both?
That sounds as if BC75MHS handle is very short then? How would the handle length compare to something I know, say a CV79/40?
As usual, really appreciate your guidance on Carpenter rods Jon.
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Jon, so there's a 3 inch difference in handle length and the blank is pretty much the same length in both?
That sounds as if BC75MHS handle is very short then? How would the handle length compare to something I know, say a CV79/40?
As usual, really appreciate your guidance on Carpenter rods Jon.
BC75MHS has a shorter handle still than the handle of CV79/40RF SHP , it's a light medium rod so one needs no low positioned gimbal to use it unlike what is needed when using more powerfull GT rods such as MH models . I will try to get the photo of the handles , side by side but may not be in time to do so within this week unless my good friend can come to my house in these next couple of days . :-[
Jon .
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I've used the OTI tuna sniper, 8'6 40-60lb rod. It is a casting machine and is stronger than it looks/feels. I just sold mine as I wanted a lighter rod. The OTI is 460grams, I bought a Tenryu Spike Tuna 8' (pe 4-8), apprx 330grams. Sorry havent fished it yet but the weight difference is noticeable....
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Geez, the OTI sniper is very heavy. That's heavier than a Wild Violence.
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Yeah, but have a cast if you get the chance, its a good rod for the $$$$. The tenryu is very light, I doubt it will handle PE8 but I guess I'll just have to try it first before saying it.....
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I've used the OTI tuna sniper, 8'6 40-60lb rod. It is a casting machine and is stronger than it looks/feels. I just sold mine as I wanted a lighter rod. The OTI is 460grams, I bought a Tenryu Spike Tuna 8' (pe 4-8), apprx 330grams. Sorry havent fished it yet but the weight difference is noticeable....
Mark, I also fish a Temple Reef Black Devil 100, which I would class in the similar casting weights. At 8'8" it casts a country mile with very little effort at all, but like the OTI it is a heavier rod, and can be a bit of a handful working surface stickbaits. I find the longer rods (over say 8') really start to be counter productive in the PE4 - 5 range (if casting distance is not your number one priority), you end up carting around a lot of rod in order to get enough stiffness in the longer length. For comparison, I think the 80 TN weighs in at 390 - 395 grams (about the same as a CV) and the STK 76 under 300 grams! - that makes a lot of difference when twitching surface stickbaits for long hours.
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Very good points Peter and all taken on board. As always it will be a compromise :). What in our game isn't? :).
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Hi Mark ,
Just got the measurements of the handles of BC78HS n BC75MHS ,
BC78HS : Butt grip total : 425mm n Foregrip total : 245mm .
BC75MHS : Butt grip total : 395mm n Foregrip total : 185mm .
The blanks for both rods and the realseats are of the length / size / type .
Jon .
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hey mark .
hmmm maybe you should look into carpenter blue chase rod - BLC83/16
which you wanted to handle PE4-5 and can handle 40-100g lure .
and it weight at 325g . only 5' longer than what your,re after ??
BLC83/16 : Butt grip total : 425mm n Foregrip total : 185mm
hope this help,s
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Cheers Jon. That really completes the picture on those Black Current rods.
Excellent recommendation Mick. I think the Blue Chaser is very hard to get though. Jon, are they getable?
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Hi Mark ,
Sent you PM on the availability of BLC rods , as for the suitability , I can't say much of this rod as I have not tried it yet . :-[
Jon .
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Mark,
I bought one of the BC75MHS after seeing a mutaul friend of Jon and mine belt 70 to 80 gram lures a looong way on it. He is a very skilled caster and was casting easily as far as me and i was using a LR88 and HLTN87 :-[. I believe he has also landed 35kg GT on it.
I have not tried mine yet, too busy with work, but look forward to trying it out. As the 78 version is too hard to get i was thinking of extending the butt section but still not sure about it yet.
Andy
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Thanks as ever Andy.
I am sort of leaning towards a Saltiga 80TN as it has had so many recommendations and is the ideal length I was looking for. The price appeals also as this is a rod I would not use that often. On the other hand, Carpenter options re always so hard to resist!
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Hi Mark,
Good point, for that class of rod it is harder to justify the cost of the carpenter :-[.
Cheers
Andy
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Thanks as ever Andy.
I am sort of leaning towards a Saltiga 80TN as it has had so many recommendations and is the ideal length I was looking for. The price appeals also as this is a rod I would not use that often. On the other hand, Carpenter options re always so hard to resist!
Mark,
The 80TN is a beautifull rod IMO.
I really enjoy using mine.
Pete
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Please consider the Major Craft Offblow Hiramasa Casting 710 Long Cast or 77 Power Game. I have the 710 Long Cast and its a wonderful rod for working 60-80g lures but will also fling a 100g Yo Zuri Surface Cruiser a long long way.
Al Morrison- Guess what, the Mike Tan who sold you that Tenryu is on this forum too! (Heard you ordered a Twinpower from Changi Pro? ;))
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Mike, great to catch up again.
Hey, that Tenryu was flinging Long Pen 110's over the horizon in the Maldives again last year and doing the business with smallish GT's too. Still a brilliant rod and a pleasure to use all day long.
I have a few of the very small major craft rods (bass rods) and they are all excellent. The Twinpower is old - I'm trying to get spare spools for it now.
Mark, I just received the tackle list for LPB and guess what - they recommend bringing a PE 5 rod (not a 9ft 6 inch one though !!) for light spinning etc at night. So I'm looking as well. My Shimano LP's are possibly a bit too light. Dave and Rudy recommend 7kgs of drag on the light spinning gear....... on what planet is 7kgs of drag light spinning ???? I cant wait.
Let me know how you get on with the Daiwa if thats the route you take.
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Jarrad was kind enough today to give me a few swings with his OTI tuna sniper, 8'6. Strange rod in my book and I think it definitely should be tried before buying. I could not get it to load properly using 100 and 110 gram sticks - the casts were flopping out a bit and the balance of the rod feels very strange. It also has that weird loose-surfaced 'furry' type Eva grip which I always associate with rod and reel combos from the supermarket!
As a comparison when casting a 110 gram Ocea Pencil, I was getting more distance with my Ripple GT82 and PE8, than I could with the Tuna Sniper loaded with PE5. Not encouraging.
Al, I surely will and that option is feeling ever more likely.
Thanks for that Mike.
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Jarrad was kind enough today to give me a few swings with his OTI tuna sniper, 8'6. Strange rod in my book and I think it definitely should be tried before buying. I could not get it to load properly using 100 and 110 gram sticks - the casts were flopping out a bit and the balance of the rod feels very strange. It also has that weird loose-surfaced 'furry' type Eva grip which I always associate with rod and reel combos from the supermarket!
As a comparison when casting a 110 gram Ocea Pencil, I was getting more distance with my Ripple GT82 and PE8, than I could with the Tuna Sniper loaded with PE5. Not encouraging.
Al, I surely will and that option is feeling ever more likely.
Thanks for that Mike.
Just wondering if that is the new model Tuna Sniper with the k series guides? I wonder if the nano resin build has anything to do with the action/casting. Any other feed back? (was thinking about purchasing one)
Thanks!
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Key feedback from me Rick would be to try before you buy as this is a quirky rod. Not saying it is a bad rod, rather it is a bit odd. It almost felt as if the 100 and 110 sticks were too light to get a proper load up but that can't be the case! Jarrad from whom I borrowed the rod for 30 minutes, pretty much agrees with me.
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Mark,
It's a pity you want something longer than 7ft 8 or I would recommend the Smith KGS 70MH. It's a true PE3-5 rod and you will pull in those fish really quick. It will also handle lures up to 100g and match those reel sizes pretty well. Despite being only 7ft I still feel it is more than long enough. I can't say exactly how far I can cast with it, but on a good cast its far enough that when the lure lands, I really have to squint to see a 60g popper's action on the surface. This rod is especially good for chugging.
Alternatively, correct me if I am wrong but MC works dominates their local market for the niche that you have just described. Perhaps you could browse their 7 miles and explosion series:
http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/sevenmiles/sevenmiles.html (http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/sevenmiles/sevenmiles.html)
http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/explosion/explosion.html (http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/explosion/explosion.html)
I think Tak Otsuka will be a good source to ask about these, although from the pictures they are probably rods more inclined to stickbaits as he has mentioned (Carpenters, naturally!)
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Mark, I just received the tackle list for LPB and guess what - they recommend bringing a PE 5 rod (not a 9ft 6 inch one though !!) for light spinning etc at night. So I'm looking as well. My Shimano LP's are possibly a bit too light. Dave and Rudy recommend 7kgs of drag on the light spinning gear....... on what planet is 7kgs of drag light spinning ???? I cant wait.
On this note, Sebastien, who is especially adept at light spinning at night, uses a KGS 70MH as well. I can't say its really for casting out long distances though - there's just too much risk of something big eating your lure a fair way out while anchored up and immediately busting you off!
I would say the most ideal set up for night spinning, Al, is a shorter jigging type PE4 rod and lots of 40-80g bay rubbers with lumo finish. Often they'll anchor over shallow sand inside bays of the reef and you can really clean up on emperors, trout and little groupers from just under the back of the boat.
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the problem with the MC Works are they are every bit as hard to get, if not even more so than Carpenters!
Al, I agree with Kasey. The best rod I have for fishing at night is a shorter jigging type rod. My favorite is a Saltiga Hiramasa 63s. I landed a very big GT around the 40kg mark with this rod when anchored up a few years back.
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Mark,
It's a pity you want something longer than 7ft 8 or I would recommend the Smith KGS 70MH. It's a true PE3-5 rod and you will pull in those fish really quick. It will also handle lures up to 100g and match those reel sizes pretty well. Despite being only 7ft I still feel it is more than long enough. I can't say exactly how far I can cast with it, but on a good cast its far enough that when the lure lands, I really have to squint to see a 60g popper's action on the surface. This rod is especially good for chugging.
Alternatively, correct me if I am wrong but MC works dominates their local market for the niche that you have just described. Perhaps you could browse their 7 miles and explosion series:
http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/sevenmiles/sevenmiles.html (http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/sevenmiles/sevenmiles.html)
http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/explosion/explosion.html (http://www.mcworks.jp/rods/explosion/explosion.html)
I think Tak Otsuka will be a good source to ask about these, although from the pictures they are probably rods more inclined to stickbaits as he has mentioned (Carpenters, naturally!)
Many thanks Kasey - I really value your words there.
On MC Works, I have been after another rod from them (in a different class) for a quite a while now. As Brandon says, so hard to source.
I will have another look at a KGS 70MH for sure, hopefully quite soon when I am in Singapore. If I can get myself over the length issue though, I do think I would go for a Carpenter Black Current 75 - that rod seems perfect in every way bar my phobia about short rods. But I am determined to pick up a KGS 70MH and have a feel for sure - I have not done so for a while. And the Daiwa Saltiga 80TN still has a lot of appeal on price and the fact that 8 ft is really exactly what I am looking for :).
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Mark,
Apologies if my LPB mention has cross threaded this chat what with PE 5 "spinning" off their boat at night vs you actually using it one as a light GT rod !
How do the Saltiga Jigging rods (Hiramasa 63S for example) stack up performance wise against the Shimano Jigwrex's? I ask because i have a slew of the Jigwrex's in a variety of models (PE4,5,6 and 8 OH and Spinning) and they have handled 40kg Sambos off Perth (PE 8) and sailfish to 40kg plus (PE 4 and 5) with ease and are a pleasure to use. Budget rods I know, but i wouldnt have any fear loading 7kgs of drag on the PE 5 - 6 footer I have. I've not got to look at the Saltigas yet but the Shimanos do have a rather "forgiving, through action".
Might have to sniff that Smith out in Singapore myself.
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Mark....looks like you are getting closer to a decision.
Did you look at the Ripple Fisher Aquila 7'6" they have 2 versions which I have heard good review on, i think there is a yamaga blank along the same lines. I am really quite amazed at the quantity of rod models that keep coming out from Ripple, i also note longer (over 8')versions of the ultimo range have become available which I would love to try out!!. On another point I have a GT78Flex which i really like and also bought the Tuna 86 which i really don't like as I can't seem to fire lures very far on it compared to HLTN87, it just seems too floppy, anyway getting off the topic.
look forward to seeing what you decide on.
Andy
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Cheers Andy. It is very hard to keep up with the Ripple/Yamaga offerings! I was indeed looking at the Aquila range and also the Yamaga Blue Sniper 80/5. The latter really appeals on price and I have heard good things about it.
There are a lot of options to look at. This is a decision I really want to get right! I have hesitated on the Carpenter and Ripple options (frankly, they are my usual rod choices) due to price. As I said before I am not sure this rod warrants $1000 as I will not use it that often compared to my more "normal" popping rods.
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Al, a PE4 Jigwrex will be fine. In all likelyhood after a full days popping without stopping, you might have 2 drops at the back at night, catch one fish, and then collapse from exhaustion! And that's just the first night ;D
Lumo bay rubbers are the key here, because as I have said, you will be anchored up mostly over sand and not structure and simply catching what passes through. Plastics would do equally well.
Mark, which MC works rod are you after? Perhaps I can try to help if you haven't already placed your order - but please don't specify a custom!
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Kasey, you'd have more chance of getting a custom MC Works rod quicker than a factory or factory special. Most of the factory rods are sold out as soon as (if not before) they hit the Japanese market. Time to get rid of the Mogi special maybe?? ::)
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Thanks Sunny, I meant to say a custom MC Works but one that is already in stock somewhere (we both know where) rather than to fully specify one and then wait for it to be built up.
I did give some thought to getting rid of the M. Special and then getting an Ultimate Monster. ;D