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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Mark Harris on March 06, 2012, 03:05:38 PM
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I was prompted into doing this as it seems from comments elsewhere in the forum that a particular favourite lure colour/pattern of mine is about to be discontinued :(.
So I thought it might be fun to ask members to post some of their favourite lure colours/patterns and the reason why. This might even throw up some little known colours. I do think that often lure colours are more important for anglers than they are for fish, but nonetheless I am sure many of us have our favourites.
I will get the ball rolling with my two favourite Craftbait colours:
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/crafbaitcolours.jpg)
Craftbait's Peacock Bass is perhaps my absolute favourite colour of any lure, anywhere. As well as looking quite stunning, GTs love it! I think there is just something about that fire orange belly contrasting with the various shades of greens which creates a pattern that predators cannot resist.
Craftbait Ballistoides Conspicullum is probably one of the weirdest looking lure patterns you will find. It is a representation of the Clown Triggerfish and has a very delicately designed textured area on the back. A real piece of craftsmanship and it is shame to hear that Craftbait are apparently dropping this pattern from their catalogue. I have been busy buying a few spares since hearing that!
Both of those are very well known lure patterns. This next one isn't. It is an obscure colour from Adhek's catalogue (colour code NF14) which I have never seen for sale anywhere:
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/Adhekgreen.jpg)
The lures pictured are all mine and are (from top) Cuttle 140, Venus 125, Big Gecko 160 and PomPom 160. I think that is the 3rd Venus and 2nd PomPom I have owned in this colour - the others being destroyed by fish. The Big Gecko pictured has also been well mangled. I love the combination of greens in this pattern and I think the pattern is so successful due to the light and dark contrasts of those green shades. Any of you who like Adheks might want to consider ordering lures in this colour direct, as like I said before, I have never seen this pattern available for sale anywhere.
Finally I was going to include a third colour - Shell Shaping's rainbow pattern. I think this is quite stunning pattern but despite trying, I have never caught a fish with it. That makes me reluctant to include it here.
I know others have lures in this pattern - has anyone ever caught a fish with it? Brandon, I remember seeing a photo of yours showing a Twister F5 in rainbow - have you caught a fish with it? Would be nice to know that the pattern works as well as looking so great!
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My favourite to date is the HALCO Roosta in "Yellowfin"
I have two nearly destroyed models and one spare in my box ready for action!
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This quote would work very well as part of a GT lure manufacturers marketing pitch, thanks Mark, I am humored.
often lure colours are more important for anglers than they are for fish,
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Most of GT fishing has been in Fiji and I gotta say, favourite colours- dark, dark, dark, dark, dark and deep blue.
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Hands down the best lure that has caught me..... GT2 Abalone.
I have one, it was an ornament for a while then I used it, caught 4 GT's and now she is a little worse for wear :(
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/mcjoyce/GT2Abalone.jpg)
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Good topic - a good colour pattern normally boosts the angler confidence, which is paramount in all fishing situations ;) Plus a lure with some brightness in it is easier to track in the chop, so POP-timing and therefore action is improved.
Warwick, that abalone pattern is amazing - any idea how they did it?
We have found blue to be the most consistent - the normally good red head/white pattern that works so well for us normally in the bluewater, is a total dud for the GTs! ::) I didn't think colour would be too significant with this style of fishing but I have outfished mates with a blue pillie pattern over their different coloured options.
I do have a pretty sexy looking dorado pattern Adhek Pompom which I will be swimming next time I am in fusilier central on the outer islands.
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I also think the Craftbait Abalone finish is quite special.
Andrew - this is done as a shell mosaic and then finished with clear coat.
I have seen a lure from Shell Shaping with a shell finish which was quite stunning, but sadly do not own any. I think there is a picture of one in Brandon's guide to poppers.
You can also pick up copies of any number of famous lures in Bali done with a very intricate mother of pearl shell finish. I have seen everything from Hammerhead I Cup to Halco Roosta copies done in this way. They look very nice but are only copies and the finish is very non-durable, so they are really for interest only.
As for colours generally, I think the confidence point Andrew makes is a good one. I definitely fish with a bit more gusto and confidence when one of my favourites is on the end of the line, although deep down I know that it probably makes little difference.
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Hands down the best lure that has caught me..... GT2 Abalone.
I have one, it was an ornament for a while then I used it, caught 4 GT's and now she is a little worse for wear :(
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/mcjoyce/GT2Abalone.jpg)
I just purchased one of these bad boys for a trip next month, can't wait to throw it
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8) 8) . Happy to humour you Andy :) .
In the end I think if we all fished with the same one colour/pattern of lure, it probably would make little difference. Much more important I think is the quality of the lure and what the angler does with it. But where's the fun in that ? And it would do little for my OCD tendencies (or Craftbait's bank balance).
This quote would work very well as part of a GT lure manufacturers marketing pitch, thanks Mark, I am humored.
often lure colours are more important for anglers than they are for fish,
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I do think that often lure colours are more important for anglers than they are for fish
It would have to be abalone gammas then ;D
I know a hetadesu who lost a few many moons ago :'(
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I just purchased one of these bad boys for a trip next month, can't wait to throw it
It will never look the same.....
Here is mine after 4 GT's, while the abalone veneer stays on pretty good the clear coat over the top doesn't stick to the abalone very well and chips and flakes off easily.
(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/mcjoyce/IMG_0195.jpg)
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Andrew - this is done as a shell mosaic and then finished with clear coat.
I have seen a lure from Shell Shaping with a shell finish which was quite stunning, but sadly do not own any. I think there is a picture of one in Brandon's guide to poppers.
I wouldnt be suprised if SS lures abalone pattern was an actual shell piece mosaic but the Craftbait GT2 is, as Warwick mentioned, is an abalone veneer. Much like can be seen here -> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Abalone-laminate-AAA-grade-inlay-luthier-app-5x9inch-/370542710387?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item5646110e73 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Abalone-laminate-AAA-grade-inlay-luthier-app-5x9inch-/370542710387?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item5646110e73)
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Here is a photo of a couple of the shell mosaic Bali poppers I mentioned earlier.
The work is very intricate and impressive. They are just ornaments though as the finish falls off quickly if you try to use them.
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/balishell2.jpg)
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If GT are in feeding mode I think colour matters little, matching bait colours in the inbetween periods may sometimes improve the chance of a strike, I wonder if this may also be true in areas where fishing pressure is heavier. Two dominant bait colours I've found in East Indonesia are the green and blue depending on location.
Mark, I agree with the quality / design factors which equate to effectiveness of the lure, I think also an important factor is the anglers comfort factor with the lure, i.e. can I cast it far and work it effectively for extended periods. A proven colour will add confidence and keep one casting.
I remember reading an article on what colours fish see, I must dig this up and have another look, it would be real interesting in the context of this thread.
8) 8) . Happy to humour you Andy :) .
In the end I think if we all fished with the same one colour/pattern of lure, it probably would make little difference. Much more important I think is the quality of the lure and what the angler does with it. But where's the fun in that ? And it would do little for my OCD tendencies (or Craftbait's bank balance).
This quote would work very well as part of a GT lure manufacturers marketing pitch, thanks Mark, I am humored.
often lure colours are more important for anglers than they are for fish,
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Fish vision is a subject I have read a bit about Andy and it seems there are some disagreements in the scientific community.
One interesting point though is that is seems predator fish can see in the ultraviolet light range. That would perhaps explain why outrageous and unnatural pinks, oranges and lime greens work as lure colours.
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Fish vision is a subject I have read a bit about Andy and it seems there are some disagreements in the scientific community.
One interesting point though is that is seems predator fish can see in the ultraviolet light range. That would perhaps explain why outrageous and unnatural pinks, oranges and lime greens work as lure colours.
Im pretty sure UV additives are all the rage in billfishing lures these days aren't they? Yet to trickle down to GT lures but it can only be a matter of time...
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That explains why i keep loosing my "pink sardine" GT3's, that colour has been very effective.
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Fish vision is a subject I have read a bit about Andy and it seems there are some disagreements in the scientific community.
One interesting point though is that is seems predator fish can see in the ultraviolet light range. That would perhaps explain why outrageous and unnatural pinks, oranges and lime greens work as lure colours.
Im pretty sure UV additives are all the rage in billfishing lures these days aren't they? Yet to trickle down to GT lures but it can only be a matter of time...
That's an interesting insight about bill fishing lures Travis.
Some lure makers have been making some "glow in the dark" poppers for years. I don't think it very widespread though (yet!).
I once had great fun casting luminous poppers at night in Eastern Indonesia. We were loading them up with a flashlight before casting and then watching the glowing shapes fire through the air :)
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I mentioned Shell Shaping's striking rainbow spectrum colour in the original post.
I find this very attractive but have not caught a fish using the pattern yet. Has anyone else, or is this perhaps a good example of colours being for the angler rather than the fish?
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/SSrainbow.jpg)
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Mark, in the Barra scene this rainbow colour is referred to as Elton John colour :-* hahaha
It does work well in murky water. Some Barra pro's say that the red "predator" eye of the Barramundie see in grey scale, so maybe its not the colour the fish see but the silhouette and the different shades that different colours appear.
Of course the "red" eye are generally associated with nocturnal species (high blood flow to the eye shows red when light hits it eg flash or torch) so this may not be as true for GT's?
And as you said, there is a lot of disagreement in the scientific world on this topic.
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Mark, in the Barra scene this rainbow colour is referred to as Elton John colour :-* hahaha
Now you got my imagination going. I am seeing two rainbow Shell Shaping Twister F5s as earrings on a drag queen at the Mardi Gras ;D .
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I'm with Darren
Dark, dark, dark, or natural. Blacks and blues. Favourite is Black glow in FCL's from fishhead. or black/silver & blue/silver gamma's and bluefish
Even been known to spray paint some not so favorable coloured lures black. See tuna caught in Kiribati report. :D
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I've got a couple of these in F5s, Mark.
I have got a couple of fish on them but haven't used them that much
I mentioned Shell Shaping's striking rainbow spectrum colour in the original post.
I find this very attractive but have not caught a fish using the pattern yet. Has anyone else, or is this perhaps a good example of colours being for the angler rather than the fish?
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/SSrainbow.jpg)
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I do a lot of diving and was trained as a marine biologist.
For sure colours that we perceive at the surface are nothing like what a fish sees underwater. Red is lost very quickly even in the clearest tropical waters.
For top water I think anglers are kidding themselves about colours - You can not see colour looking up to the surface against a light (any daylight) sky. It would therefore be either light or dark - light being the colour that all natural fishes are if you look at there underside and dark probably giving more silhouette.
Colour is probably far more important to the angler with preferred lures fished more and therefore catching more and feeding the perception that colour is important.
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When it comes to colour of lures i for one have asked a lot of good fisherman if fish see colour. As i was of the opinion they were colour blind. I did a bit of research on the matter and the best bit of info i came across was this from a Zoology or Animal Biology report. Zoology is the branch of biology that is concerned with the study of animals. The life, growth and classification of fauna in all living forms.
Q: How do fish see..?
A: Fish have eyes just like humans, but they also have protective film over them so that they can see clearly underwater. They have rod and cone cells on their retinas, so we know that they can see in colour as well as in shades of grey, and that they have some level of night vision. Fish have the same chemicals in their eyes which allow humans to see colours, so they can see the seven colour spectrum that we see. They also have another chemical in their eyes which allows them to see some ultra-violet frequencies as well.
In addition to their eyes fish also have what is called a lateral line. A lateral line is a thin, horizontal line of nerve receptors on each side of the fish that runs from head to tail. Using its lateral line, a fish can sense even the smallest of vibrations in the water and is able to determine objects around them before they even see it. Most fish that live far underwater rely almost entirely on their lateral line because it is so dark that their eyes are more of light sensors, rather than a visual tool.
I am now of the opinion that fish do see colour.
Cheers Rob
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Rob, there is no question that fish see colour. It is more a question of HOW they see colour. On that there is much debate still I believe.
I do a fair bit of diving as well Graham and think your point about colours when surface fishing is very valid. A lot of the colours many of us seem to have success with have light and dark contrasty patterns (on the same lure), and that backs up your point about creating silhouettes against the light.
On reds and pinks, I think one of theories about why these two colours seem to work so well on deep sinking baits (eg jigs), is that they grey out very quickly at depth. And shades of grey are probably the commonest single colour on any fish. So, what we see on the surface as red or pink, the fish sees at depth as grey. That's the theory I have heard put forward anyway.
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That's good to hear Brandon. I will persevere with mine then!
I've got a couple of these in F5s, Mark.
I have got a couple of fish on them but haven't used them that much
I mentioned Shell Shaping's striking rainbow spectrum colour in the original post.
I find this very attractive but have not caught a fish using the pattern yet. Has anyone else, or is this perhaps a good example of colours being for the angler rather than the fish?
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/SSrainbow.jpg)
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For top water I think anglers are kidding themselves about colours - You can not see colour looking up to the surface against a light (any daylight) sky. It would therefore be either light or dark - light being the colour that all natural fishes are if you look at there underside and dark probably giving more silhouette.
this is true in deep water but in shallow areas where light is also reflected off the sea floor you'll be able to see colour looking up... also with clear plastic you'll be able to see the colour of the plastic looking up as well
actually this probably explains why the tuna fishos do well with dark colours - they're fishing in deep water with little or no reflected light upwards. whereas in shallow reefy areas where kings and gts live colour make a bigger difference
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For top water I think anglers are kidding themselves about colours - You can not see colour looking up to the surface against a light (any daylight) sky. It would therefore be either light or dark - light being the colour that all natural fishes are if you look at there underside and dark probably giving more silhouette.
this is true in deep water but in shallow areas where light is also reflected off the sea floor you'll be able to see colour looking up... also with clear plastic you'll be able to see the colour of the plastic looking up as well
actually this probably explains why the tuna fishos do well with dark colours - they're fishing in deep water with little or no reflected light upwards. whereas in shallow reefy areas where kings and gts live colour make a bigger difference
I disagree. If you don't believe me try it a swimming pool (salt water can never get that clear) you won't be able to see the colour of the lure and for sure your eyes are better at colour vision than a fishes (predators typically have better motion than colour vision and colour vision is likely to be worse for aquatic animals since there is no selective advantage).
More evidence can be found from fish themselves ... ask yourself why do fish have lighter undersides. It is because it allows them to blend in with the light surface and be camouflaged from predators.
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I dont completely subscribe to the theory of colour being irrelevant on surface presentations. Many surface strikes include an element of approach from the side, or behind in which case recognition of the lure colour COULD occur. Or more to the point how many GT hits come from DIRECTLY underneath the lure, polaris style? As the fish gets higher in the water and its angle to the lure more accute, its going to see more detail on the lure.
Its a light rich environment, but its likely there would be some bubbles, disturbance etc obscuring the lure. So some contrast, flash and attract triggers (eg prominent eyes, red gills etc) could probably help, and a dark lure in this situation would most likely be easier seen. Well thats my thoughts anyway... And it makes me feel good about buying more colours! ;D
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I disagree. If you don't believe me try it a swimming pool (salt water can never get that clear) you won't be able to see the colour of the lure and for sure your eyes are better at colour vision than a fishes
I'm pretty sure thats how i came to my conclusion (mucking around while spearfishing and looking up from the bottom of a pool) - but yep maybe the fishes eyes process colour differently to what we do.
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Here's my approach to colour...
I always work on the theory that I am trying to tell a convincing lie to a fish who mistakes the lure for something edible(or something that at least requires a strike).
So I need enough colour/contrast/shape/size/splash/ speed/ to be the most convincing lie.
As an example in dirty water along the coast, big poppers, contrasting colours, big bloops, slow retrieve. So maybe big ebipops, bigheads etc
If in still clear water around the offshore islands, smaller lures natural/neutral/hard to see colours/ faster retrieve, maybe neutral stickbaits?
The barramundi fishery has gone a long way with colour. The legendary gold bomber is black back gold sides, I think the reason it works so well is its mostly used in low turbidity tannin stained water so the black and gold become quite hard to see and there is enough movement and size to be detected but not enough vision to be proven as a lie. As the water becomes more turbid, contrasting, strong blotchs or bars (like the elton John) seem to outfish gold bombers, as the colour is unlikely to be seen as a lie.
I also think colour is one of the least important variables in lure presentation. Much rather have a good lure in dodgey colour that vice versa.
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I haven't got a bloody clue and won't until I am reincarnated as a fish one day (ironically, probably a GT) but I am still going to be attracted to the colours I like whether it makes any difference or not!
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That's the attitude Brandon :).
The idea of this thread was for folks to post exactly that - their favourite colours.
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That's the attitude Brandon :).
The idea of this thread was for folks to post exactly that - their favourite colours.
We did get a bit side tracked on the topic there :D
For me, I look at a lure and it's colour and ask myself "if i were a fish does that look like something I'd eat?"
My other favourite colour is the fusiler, I have much confidence in that one!
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Just a quick question guys. When you see baitfish of a particular type ie fusilier, scad or whatever.. is "matching the hatch" in colour and size considered worthwhile/desirable?
You can also pick up copies of any number of famous lures in Bali done with a very intricate mother of pearl shell finish. I have seen everything from Hammerhead I Cup to Halco Roosta copies done in this way. They look very nice but are only copies and the finish is very non-durable, so they are really for interest only.
I was just thinking as I read this - Maybe someone is doing this already... but could a shell finished, weighted "insert" be encased in clear plastic to improve durability, a bit like Pili and some other poppers (Kokoda - spelling?). Modern urethanes are a lot more durable than the old polyester resin that would get chipped so easily. With the magnification effect of the resin, a carefully sized insert would seem to "fill up" the lure body. A shell lure does look beautiful, there's no doubt about it.
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Here are my favorite colors for my lures, but on the Poppers, the color is a pleasure to the fisherman but I think our GT do not care, it's just my opinion ;), on the Stickbaits, it's very different I think.
I love the plug Orion blue white and red, it's curious :)
(http://www.zimage.fr/images/98995couleur-favorite.JPG) (http://www.zimage.fr/photo.php?id=98995)Zimage (http://www.zimage.fr)
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This color is not bad ;)
(http://www.zimage.fr/images/98996Fraser.jpg) (http://www.zimage.fr/photo.php?id=98996)Zimage (http://www.zimage.fr)
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You have a Plug Tropic that is done up like drapeau tricolore!
Here are my favorite colors for my lures, but on the Poppers, the color is a pleasure to the fisherman but I think our GT do not care, it's just my opinion ;), on the Stickbaits, it's very different I think.
I love the plug Orion blue white and red, it's curious :)
(http://www.zimage.fr/images/98995couleur-favorite.JPG) (http://www.zimage.fr/photo.php?id=98995)Zimage (http://www.zimage.fr)
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Dustin, I have seen some lures where the shell finish is below the urethane
Just a quick question guys. When you see baitfish of a particular type ie fusilier, scad or whatever.. is "matching the hatch" in colour and size considered worthwhile/desirable?
You can also pick up copies of any number of famous lures in Bali done with a very intricate mother of pearl shell finish. I have seen everything from Hammerhead I Cup to Halco Roosta copies done in this way. They look very nice but are only copies and the finish is very non-durable, so they are really for interest only.
I was just thinking as I read this - Maybe someone is doing this already... but could a shell finished, weighted "insert" be encased in clear plastic to improve durability, a bit like Pili and some other poppers (Kokoda - spelling?). Modern urethanes are a lot more durable than the old polyester resin that would get chipped so easily. With the magnification effect of the resin, a carefully sized insert would seem to "fill up" the lure body. A shell lure does look beautiful, there's no doubt about it.
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You are very patriotic Gege - only French lures and one even done up in the Tricolore ;)
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Mark,
The french tricolor is a magnet to fish ;), I have not only Orion lures from Eric, I have also Heru Cubera and this one with some hooks and treble hooks :P, it's a joke of course :)
(http://www.zimage.fr/images/99090Hammerhead.jpg) (http://www.zimage.fr/photo.php?id=99090)Zimage (http://www.zimage.fr)
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Yu can hook 6 GTs at a time on it! ;)
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yes this is my dream and all GT greater than 50k for the fun Ah! Ah! ;)
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I would love to see the reaction of a guide if you tied that on, although I am sure you would struggle not to laugh. ;D
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In terms of stickbaits, I think these 2 schemes I did a while back would be my favourites, based purely on the fact they've caught more fish than any other of my lures.
But I also reckon that when GT's are feeding aggressively, you could throw a lure of any colour and it'll likely be bitten. I suppose it's when the fish are shy is a true test for things like colour :-\.
Cheers,
Angus
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Colours? What colours?
A bit of mahogany with a clear coat on it ;).
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac239/markinbali/woodencopy.jpg)
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Some of my favourite colors
(http://s16.postimage.org/5lk9ebkm9/6craftbait.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5lk9ebkm9/)
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Nice charlie... two of my favourite colours in there on one of my favourite poppers.
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Mark,
I'd happily fish inside the Great Barrier Reef "lagoon" area and the top of Fraser Island with any popper in red head/white body, follwed by fusilier. The water is clear as air and typically less than 20m.
Down off Brisbane, where the locals (and myself pre-neck injury) were pulling our fish out of deeper water where dark blues/blacks/greens work on bright days and the 'panic trout' colour from FCL LABO works on overcast days. The water here is 15-30m and a lot darker too.
Regardless of where, contrast seems to be a key element across the board. Even the red head improves 50% by having a couple of black patches on the white belly........comes back to contrast!
Also, having a nice bright pink or yellow cup helps in tracking the lures movements:- both in the air and in the drink!
Cheers,
Aaron.
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just sharing my fav color...
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z108/lsk20/4FDB8FDB-E1B4-4EDD-BB0C-15DE3833E64E-2930-00000520E512BFDF_zps6ca990fc.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/user/lsk20/media/4FDB8FDB-E1B4-4EDD-BB0C-15DE3833E64E-2930-00000520E512BFDF_zps6ca990fc.jpg.html)