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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Andrew Colefax on February 25, 2008, 10:04:50 PM
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I'm looking to build a few GT rods and wondering if anyone has any experience with the above mentioned brands of blanks.
I can source T-Russell Grit Tale GT blanks through my japanese rod building supplier but have never heard of them. On paper they seem the goods (eg the GT-K 7.7XH kevlar reinforced PE8 250gr cast weight mod-fast action 210gr blank weight)
i've been told that the Seed blanks are too fast in action and consequently place undue strain on the angler. I am 196cm (6'5") around a 100kg so would like to think i can exert my fair of leverage when needed!
Realistically I am looking at putting together 3 rods to start with (PE5, PE8 and PE10+) for use mainly on the reefs off Cairns. if anyone has knowledge of the above ranges of blanks recommendations would be greatly appreciated alternatively i can post the specs of the various blanks here for further comment
cheers
Andrew
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A mate of mine built 7.7 T russell Kevlar before. Accordingly, you need the heaviest of poppers to load the blank. He complained that this was too stiff for his 6 feet and 108kg body and sold it away. Apparently this was the second blank he got, the first blank broke while he tried to locate the spine. All this happened many years ago and things might have changed since. Just thought you will find this info helpful. Let us know whatever you got.
Personally I like 7 1/2 feet too.
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Andrew, I have some familiarity wth SEED but I've only ever heard of the T Russells - never seen one. Can I say that a PE8 rod that can cast 250g sounds a bit odd to me though. A rod that can cast 250g would more likely be a PE10 rod.
The reality is that the top blanks are incredibly hard to come by unless you are very well connected. Honestly, I don't rate SEED highly and I certainly do not regard them among the premium producers. Their popping rods are heavy for what they are and appear a little stone age in comparison to a Carpenter. If any of you own a SEED, my apologies but it is my honest opinion.
I do not find the SEED rods particularly fast in action and certainly they would not be as fast as some of the rods in the Carpenter SP range. GT fishing places undue strain on the angler any way you look at it! I think the heaviest SEED blank is only good for up to PE8 and about 10-12kgs of drag.
If you're prepared to go with a one piece blank, some of the Calstars appear to be suitable. I can't give you much of an opinion on these as I don't use them myself but a number of our members here do.
Personally, popping rods are the one rod where you won't go wrong buying off the rack.
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Hi Brandon,
thanks for the response. As a custom rod builder (mainly lighter rods like barra and bass stuff) I would like to roll up a few popping sticks and depending on the outcome may look to integrate it with my upcoming business venture. I can source all the high end components through my japanese supplier and have confidence in my workmanship to produce a good end product.
I asked about Seed as the blanks are easy to obtain here thanks to a local distributor (who also happens to be the Hastings and Calstar distributor as well) I exclusively use Hastings blanks for my rods and visited the distributor a few weeks ago, they are working on a range of Hastings offset 2-piece popping blanks I saw a few samples they are looking good. I feel the technology, materials and design philosophy used in Hastings blanks make them ideally suited to popping blanks, so long as they do their research
I asked about T-Russell as I cannot read my japanese catalogue from my supplier but the specs are printed in english...i may bite the bullet and get a few in to see what they are about
cheers
Andrew
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Hastings don't have a spinning blank (as far as I am aware) that is even close to the rating of heavy GT rod.
I do understand the desire to build your own rods but you will to balance this off against the blanks you have access to. The top Japanese companies simply do not make their super premium blanks available.
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Hi Brandon,
that is correct, currently Hastings do not offer a GT blank. they do offer a range of jigging blanks. But they are currently in the development stage of a range of GT popping blanks. The sample blank i saw, an offset 2pc, was a PE6-8 i believe and looked good. one innovative (and cheaper to manufacture) idea incorporated into the design was the butt section was reverse tapered, ie it got thinner towards the butt. This makes it much easier from a rod builders point of view to build up the butt section.
I don't know the technology in terms of materials that the top end japanese GT blank manufacturers use, but in terms of laying up a blank it is the same basic process for all blank manufacturers. it is the materials used, the patterns of the flags and how they are placed on the mandrel, and the mandrel design that are the variables, and obviously the japanese are at the forefront of this style of blank due to their experience and R&D...I see no reason why a blank manufacturer such as Hastings can't produce a product equally as good if they follow the correct R&D procedures
I will most likely end up being involved in the development of these Hastings blanks once i have relocated and the boat arrives, and would also invite experienced anglers such as yourself to give one a try if you like...regardless i'm sure i'll end up getting an assortment of japanese rods ;D
thanks for your insights
Andrew
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Personally, popping rods are the one rod where you won't go wrong buying off the rack.
I only started popping about a decade ago and with my limited knowledge I have to agree to this point as far as casting is concerned, but NOT too sure about fighting GT with long handle. For decades big game stand up rods have short handles for obvious reasons. If one can have best of both worlds (cast reasonably well with not too long a handle), why not? But if anyone is going to build to the specs like those off the rack ones, then I say forget it, pick one from the rack then. Having said that, not all blanks can be built with short handles. Certainly not those stiff/fast action ones.
My 2 cents ;)
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Is this T Russel Grit Tale blank comes from MATAGI rod builder catalog ? If so then be advised that there were a couple of breakages happened in 2006 when YFT fishing , the broken blanks were replaced FOC but not the custom work , this happened to the guy whom I sent my rods for repair . I can't imagine if such rod cant handle YFT , what wud be the outcomes when used for GT fishing .
Jon .
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Yu Hock, I have to admit that I am getting a fair bit of amusement from your continual focus on a shorter butt section! Do you by any chance have really short arms? If so, come out fishing with me and I will bring out a WV83XH for you to use! ;D
Personally, popping rods are the one rod where you won't go wrong buying off the rack.
I only started popping about a decade ago and with my limited knowledge I have to agree to this point as far as casting is concerned, but NOT too sure about fighting GT with long handle. For decades big game stand up rods have short handles for obvious reasons. If one can have best of both worlds (cast reasonably well with not too long a handle), why not? But if anyone is going to build to the specs like those off the rack ones, then I say forget it, pick one from the rack then. Having said that, not all blanks can be built with short handles. Certainly not those stiff/fast action ones.
My 2 cents ;)
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Brandon ,
What is your opinion on the length of the offset handle of Caranx Kaibutsu ? It's even longer than the LDC handle of WV83XH , SP710H SHP n LR89DC .
Yu Hock ,
I suggest you lower the position of your gimbal belt to be comfortable with longer handle of popping rods and adjust it higher for trolling rods .
Jon .
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Jon, I really don't understand what Shimano thought they were doing with the Caranx. The rod is intended as a SE Asian model but the butt on it is intended for a basketball player! Unless they intended the rod to be used with a gimbal that was hanging around the knees of your average SE Asian male, I really have no idea who the rod was aimed at.
For the WV83, I tend to hang the gimbal belt a couple of inches lower and its fine.
Brandon ,
What is your opinion on the length of the offset handle of Caranx Kaibutsu ? It's even longer than the LDC handle of WV83XH , SP710H SHP n LR89DC .
Yu Hock ,
I suggest you lower the position of your gimbal belt to be comfortable with longer handle of popping rods and adjust it higher for trolling rods .
Jon .
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Yes Jon, been doing that to counter the problem. Thanks for your constructive suggestion it is just that I wasn't used to it and the thought of short handle that I borrowed from the Stand-up big game rod came to mine. Prior to the Japanese long popping rods we were using 7 footer rod with short handles.
Oh yes lord Brandon, I am of great honour to be able to amuse you ;D Come to think of it, there might be hundreds and thousands of short arms like myself out there considering the sale of short handle Standup tackle during the heydays. Maybe there is a large enough market for it ;)
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Jon, I really don't understand what Shimano thought they were doing with the Caranx. The rod is intended as a SE Asian model but the butt on it is intended for a basketball player! Unless they intended the rod to be used with a gimbal that was hanging around the knees of your average SE Asian male, I really have no idea who the rod was aimed at.
Hi Brandon ,
I had a discussion the Shimano guy in Singapore on Caranx Kaibutsu , of course I told him that I am affiliated with another brand first before started the " discussion " , the long handle is supposedly for " new style " of popping rod , according to him but prior to that , while in Bali with Chris Harrison we check the rod in Shimano showroom there , even for Chris who is over 6' tall the handle is a bit too long for comfortable fighting stance so I really am not sure what was the intention for that longer handle .
In Indonesia , Caranx Kaibutsu has a new nickname : " Kalang Kabut " rod which mean Totally Out of Control rod due to it's too long a handle and too skinny EVA foregrip making it hard to grasp when fighting a strong fish . A few who have bought Caranx Kaibutsu rods have cut the butt between 5~6 cm to make it more comfortable to fight the fish .
Jon .
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Jon, to me, the regional guys who made the decision to go with the specs of the rod simply got it wrong. As you know, Chris is a big man with long arms and if he found its length to be outside his comfort level, I'm just not sure what they were doing considering the market the rod was developed for. I don't have any doubt that the rod, with its long butt section would cast beautifully but it would be a handful to fight a fish with. The blank is a very capable blank but to me at least, the specs just were not ideal for the market the rod was sold into.
I have heard the statement "new style of popping rod" associated with the Caranx before but I am not sure what it means.
It's a relatively easy task to get the rod shortened and any decent rod craftsman can do this in short time. Even with the skinny EVA foregrip, this can be built up easily. The thing is you shouldn't have to do this
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I think the idea is to have more leverage for casting, especially in the LP, PI and LC. Also it allows you to use medium to heavy standup gimbal setups with the rods, like you said, fishing with a lower gimbal setup. This way you're not using you back so much. Bend you knees to lift the rod.
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Greetings Guys,
First of all, as a disclaimer, I am working in Shimano S.E.A. as a rod designer, and Caranx was one of the models I was working on, so do take what I say with a pinch of salt due to my affiliation.
Anyway, the long butt design rationale has been going on and on through several forums and now that Jon has brought it to this particuliar one, I guess I will do the explaination here again for the benefit of those who own the rod.
I've been often asked why the LC, DM and SM have such long butts before, and no, the answer is not bcos I am big sized ;D So heres to explain the rationale of this new pop rod design concept....
The benefits of the longer butt are twofold, firstly and obviously, it will be easier to cast and pop, which is what alot of us have to keep doing as fish strikes are not so frequent as we would like and alot of casting is usually involved between strikes. For imparting popper action, u can tuck the rod under ur armpits to generate bigger bloops, or you can simply take advantage of the longer butt to work the chugger while it is in the belt(if you are tired)
Secondly and more importantly is for the hookup and fight. When you first hook up, u need to set the hooks properly b4 transferring the rod to the belt, the long butt allows u to tuck the rod right past the armpits to give you much more positive hooksetting power.
Caranx Kaibutsu was designed for use with low mount belts, i.e belts that sit on the thigh, not those that sit above the "crotch" region.
For fighting, try pulling on the rod with a lower mount belt, vs pulling conventional shorter butt rods with the usual high mount belt....measure the pressure on the angler vs the force applied on the fish and you will know why the butt is longer for use with low mounts. Alot of times with a high mount belt, the angler seems to put alot of force into the fight, but by the bending curve of the rod, you can see the translation of force to the fishes end is only very limited....
High mount belts originated from jigging and were simply doubled for use when popping. They are great for jigging to increase the angle between the line and the rod to utilise the stiffer lower end of the blank as the fight is down deep, but try that with popping rods with fish fighting closer to the surface and you will likely face a tip over feeling when you start utilising above 10kg of drag due to the length of the rod working against u, not with you; this time the leverage is working against you due to the rod length and the above mentioned angle has to be reduced for u to fully utilise the power of the rod on the fish.
Anyway, the 3 heavier rods with the long butts are specifically designed to be used on lower mount belts to avoid that kind of dangerous situation whilst still being able to apply above 10kg of drag easily throughout, and this has been pre-tested by many average sized asian anglers, not just big sized ones. Using a low mount with adequate butt length allows you to keep your knees bent and lean back rather than crouch forward when locked up.
To sum it up, if you are an angler who likes and uses only high mount belts only, u will find it hard to "tame" these rods as the forgrips will be out too far and probably Caranx is not the rod for you; you'd be better off sticking with other brands with a more conventional design. If you do own and fish a low mount belt and tend to fight fish in a more aggressive manner in a "lock and sock it them manner", then Caranx will be suitable for you.
It is a new design concept in popping, some might not understand the purpose of the design, but I hope you will give it a try urself to experience the benefits of using this design concept.
Regards
Daniel
Not just a surf and jig fisherman 8)
I think the idea is to have more leverage for casting, especially in the LP, PI and LC. Also it allows you to use medium to heavy standup gimbal setups with the rods, like you said, fishing with a lower gimbal setup. This way you're not using you back so much. Bend you knees to lift the rod.
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Baseball bat generates tremendous speed with 'short handle'. Maybe there are more to be known out there than we care to find out. I was hoping to achieve best of both worlds (fighting and casting ergonomics) since my first post. Granted, popping is likely to be more of a casting game than fighting, but if we can improve our tackle and technic, why not?
Have a great day guys. :D
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Daniel, thank you so much for taking the effort to post a reponse here. It is good for us to at least inderstand the rationale of why the rod was designed with such a long butt.I've fished a bit with a Carpenter WV83XH which requires me to use a lower positioned gimbal belt and I've struggled to get used to it myself but to be fair, I know some people who prefer the lower mount.
I also have to acknowledge that the longer butt would be advantageous for casting.
Thanks again - we appreciate the post
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Baseball bats can generate such high speeds due to its rigidity, short length and centre of mass at the top end. However this alone does not equate to good casting, otherwise you would be able to get good distances simply by mounting guides and a reelseat onto a baseball bat.
Baseball bat generates tremendous speed with 'short handle'. Maybe there are more to be known out there than we care to find out. I was hoping to achieve best of both worlds (fighting and casting ergonomics) since my first post. Granted, popping is likely to be more of a casting game than fighting, but if we can improve our tackle and technic, why not?
Have a great day guys. :D
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No worries Brandon,
Its always good to share and exchange information from anglers around the world.
Cheers
Dan
Daniel, thank you so much for taking the effort to post a reponse here. It is good for us to at least inderstand the rationale of why the rod was designed with such a long butt.I've fished a bit with a Carpenter WV83XH which requires me to use a lower positioned gimbal belt and I've struggled to get used to it myself but to be fair, I know some people who prefer the lower mount.
I also have to acknowledge that the longer butt would be advantageous for casting.
Thanks again - we appreciate the post
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Hi guys ,
Yu Hock like short handle , Daniel likes long handle , I prefer standard length handle ..... , everyone is different but at least with long handle one can always cut the handle to suit .
I am with you Brandon , still not too happy with my SP710H SHP , apart from the obviously 2" longer handle over the standard length , it's too heavy due to aluminium extrusion being used for the extension but I heard this has been done away with graphite composite 1 pc. butt section .
Jon .
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;D Yu Hock likes short handle for the ease of whipping fish. Was referring to theory and then suddenly someone talks about using bat to fish ??? Why not use laundry pole then since the handle can be as long as you want???
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Pricesly what I was trying to mention.....baseball bats and laundry poles cannot be used effectively as rods ;D
;D Yu Hock likes short handle for the ease of whipping fish. Was referring to theory and then suddenly someone talks about using bat to fish ??? Why not use laundry pole then since the handle can be as long as you want???
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Yah, let's keep the theory open and leave the bats and poles out. After all Shimano has been selling short handle rods for years. Isn't it shooting their own foot for saying it won't work? 8)
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It's good to have someone with your knowledge here, Dan. I hope we can look forward to further contributions from you on this forum.
It's interesting as with the design of this rod, Shimano have intentionally gone away from conventional thinking. You can't have innovation without innovative thinking so it will be interesting to get some feedback from guys who are actually using the rod.
I know with the Carpenter than the longer handled rods like the WV83 and SP710 are advertised as European models so the designed has obviously made them for a conventional gimbal belt. The disadvantage of the longer butt in the Carpenters is it adds a lot of weight. This is an issue the Caranx does not have.
Yu Hock, I am not familiar with any short handled GT rods that Shimano have released in the past?
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Irregardless of short, medium or long it just depends on the preference and fighting style of the angler. So as long as you are comfortable using what you feel is match to you, its all good :)
Yah, let's keep the theory open and leave the bats and poles out. After all Shimano has been selling short handle rods for years. Isn't it shooting their own foot for saying it won't work? 8)
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Hi Brandon,
You guys are at the forefront of the popping sport, and if its anything to go by, it should be me who should be taking pointers from you guys. :)
Anyway, I believe the European Carpenters are heavier than their "Asian" counterparts due to the extension made on the rear grip. I believe Jon has mentioned that this has been addressed and changed with the new rods. That being said, additional weight at the butt end is actually okie too as it can make the tip feel lighter.
Anyway, one of the reasons why the Kaibutsu is still able to maintain its weight even with an alu reelseat is due to the fact that the reelseat is actually bonded directly to the blank without any spacers. This is a stronger yet lighter construction with less chances of failure.
For Jons concern over the foregrip size, it takes considerable lesser effort if your fingers can go round the grip more.....if you do a chin up on a thick bar vs one that you can get your fingers around, you can immediately understand what I mean.
Cheers
Dan
It's good to have someone with your knowledge here, Dan. I hope we can look forward to further contributions from you on this forum.
It's interesting as with the design of this rod, Shimano have intentionally gone away from conventional thinking. You can't have innovation without innovative thinking so it will be interesting to get some feedback from guys who are actually using the rod.
I know with the Carpenter than the longer handled rods like the WV83 and SP710 are advertised as European models so the designed has obviously made them for a conventional gimbal belt. The disadvantage of the longer butt in the Carpenters is it adds a lot of weight. This is an issue the Caranx does not have.
Yu Hock, I am not familiar with any short handled GT rods that Shimano have released in the past?
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It's good to have someone with your knowledge here, Dan. I hope we can look forward to further contributions from you on this forum.
It's interesting as with the design of this rod, Shimano have intentionally gone away from conventional thinking. You can't have innovation without innovative thinking so it will be interesting to get some feedback from guys who are actually using the rod.
I know with the Carpenter than the longer handled rods like the WV83 and SP710 are advertised as European models so the designed has obviously made them for a conventional gimbal belt. The disadvantage of the longer butt in the Carpenters is it adds a lot of weight. This is an issue the Caranx does not have.
Yu Hock, I am not familiar with any short handled GT rods that Shimano have released in the past?
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I NEVER thought short handle was possible for long stiff popping rods and that is why I enquired on shorter and softer popping blanks to entertain the thought of building one. To say that short handle can't cast far is like saying those short handle baitcast rods that shimano sells won't work. Casting is not always about pull and punch (like surf casting). To understand this go buy yourself two 5 1/2 bc blanks and build one with regular handle and one with long handle like your popping rod and you tell me which one cast further. To make things even more interesting build another one with pistol grip and you have it cast further than all two. What? Single hand cast further than both hands? Oh yes, if we open our mind like parachute it will work. It is all about having all the load that one CAN handle. Now please don't misunderstand that I say single hand 8ft popping rod is possible, it won't work even for a 7fter. Like I said it is all about all the load majority of us can handle. Obviously the taper, length and material of the blanks play a very important role, in the same context was why I had a hard time finding a short and softer popping rod in the first place. The idea is that simple but I have a bad feeling that I was misunderstood of saying all the long handle popping rods are a market failure. I am merely hoping to find a rod that IMO can be best of both worlds. I say it again popping is more about casting than fighting fish so the long handle length is undestandable. Hope this is clear for all. Can we move on now?
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But baitcasting blanks are built primarily for accuracy, not distance. For distance with a GT rod, I cannot see how you can possibly cast a short handled rod as far as a longer handled rod. It is a simple matter of leverage
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Hi Dan ,
In my case , the foregrip size must suit one's hand , in tennis racket I use 4 1/2 grip and when I tried playing with my daughter's racquet , each time I do my stroke I wud twist the racquet due to too small a grip . My fingers are pressing against my hand and preventing me from gripping the racquet tightly .
The same with rod ( any kind ) , lest you want Brandon's " .... claw " syndrome , the grip must suit one's hand and I stand by my statement that Caranx Kaibutsu's foregrip is a little too small for me , it's no bigger than the butt grip of my bass rod . I am a smaller guy than you so your hand must be bigger than mine , I wonder how you can exert strong enough grip under substantial pressure from the big fish fighting for it's life ?
Jon .
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But baitcasting blanks are built primarily for accuracy, not distance. For distance with a GT rod, I cannot see how you can possibly cast a short handled rod as far as a longer handled rod. It is a simple matter of leverage
Never mind if it is not for distance. We are discussing about the furthest one can hit with 3 types of handle to conclude that short or longest handle is not necessary the right or wrong thing. It is all about using the right handle length for different action of blanks. There is a right balance to every blank and angler; the longest of handle will mean a shorter length to load and propel the popper. Too short a handle on a stiff and long rod will create too great a leverage against the angler. We gone down that path before on how I cant find the right rod to build.
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Hi Jon,
Never had that problem; with or without gloves as the grip was still big enough for me to prevent the fingers from "digging" into my palm. Havent compared but perhaps I have a small hand with respect to my size ;D
Anyway I tend to get more of the claw syndrome when I use only the top two "segments" of the fingers to grip onto a big grip vs when I can use the whole of the fingers to grip round the grip itself.
Abit of interesting read, the grip size was decided after testing with a focus group of anglers, where different sizes of grips were used to see which allowed the angler to exert the most force, and at the same time also hang on to a dead load for the longest period of time.
Cheers
Hi Dan ,
In my case , the foregrip size must suit one's hand , in tennis racket I use 4 1/2 grip and when I tried playing with my daughter's racquet , each time I do my stroke I wud twist the racquet due to too small a grip . My fingers are pressing against my hand and preventing me from gripping the racquet tightly .
The same with rod ( any kind ) , lest you want Brandon's " .... claw " syndrome , the grip must suit one's hand and I stand by my statement that Caranx Kaibutsu's foregrip is a little too small for me , it's no bigger than the butt grip of my bass rod . I am a smaller guy than you so your hand must be bigger than mine , I wonder how you can exert strong enough grip under substantial pressure from the big fish fighting for it's life ?
Jon .
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"Claw syndrome" cannot be avoided after five straight days of popping! The thing is I get it in both hands, not just the hand holding the rod
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Hi Yu Hock,
When I first started popping about 10 years back, there were hardly any purpose built rods that were available for us to use. That period before the influx of Japanese rods that came in saw us experimenting with quite a few different blanks to get something to suit our needs. One of the better working ones was a 2 pc Graphcast which was from CD if I remember correctly. If you dont mind a mid joint blank, the rod was not excessively stiff and yet had pretty reasonable power for mid size GTs to 30kg. Probably could be close to what you wanted if you wished to do your short butt pop rod.
But baitcasting blanks are built primarily for accuracy, not distance. For distance with a GT rod, I cannot see how you can possibly cast a short handled rod as far as a longer handled rod. It is a simple matter of leverage
Never mind if it is not for distance. We are discussing about the furthest one can hit with 3 types of handle to conclude that short or longest handle is not necessary the right or wrong thing. It is all about using the right handle length for different action of blanks. There is a right balance to every blank and angler; the longest of handle will mean a shorter length to load and propel the popper. Too short a handle on a stiff and long rod will create too great a leverage against the angler. We gone down that path before on how I cant find the right rod to build.
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Hi Brandon,
On 2 hands?? :o
Are you sure you did not get the claw syndrome on your other hand from doing some other unthinkable thing? lol...
Jokes aside, reality is that I get that too, I guess it just is part and parcel of GT popping.....Squeezing on a squash ball to exercise the fingers several months before your trip helps a little though.......
"Claw syndrome" cannot be avoided after five straight days of popping! The thing is I get it in both hands, not just the hand holding the rod
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Abit of interesting read, the grip size was decided after testing with a focus group of anglers, where different sizes of grips were used to see which allowed the angler to exert the most force, and at the same time also hang on to a dead load for the longest period of time.
Hi Dan ,
The problem with " static " test is that , what really happens during the real time may somewhat differ .
For example , putting the gimbal lower , say the bottom part of the gimbal just above the knee may proved to be cumbersome when you have to move around the boat to anticipate the movement of the active fish , for me the most favourable position is to have the fulcrum of the rod butt at just about where my vital part is , with Caranx Kaibutsu long handle , this is not possible by a long shot .
As for grip , too small a grip feel slippery around my gloved hands which in real time , must move as one pumps the rod ( upand down ward as well as sideways ) , again to counteract the movements of the fish , I wud prefer a bit more diameter for the foregrip than the one on Caranx Kaibutsu .
Jon .
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Hi Jon,
Obviously after "static" tests were done, real time tests had to follow to verify the specs.
Cheers
Abit of interesting read, the grip size was decided after testing with a focus group of anglers, where different sizes of grips were used to see which allowed the angler to exert the most force, and at the same time also hang on to a dead load for the longest period of time.
Hi Dan ,
The problem with " static " test is that , what really happens during the real time may somewhat differ .
For example , putting the gimbal lower , say the bottom part of the gimbal just above the knee may proved to be cumbersome when you have to move around the boat to anticipate the movement of the active fish , for me the most favourable position is to have the fulcrum of the rod butt at just about where my vital part is , with Caranx Kaibutsu long handle , this is not possible by a long shot .
As for grip , too small a grip feel slippery around my gloved hands which in real time , must move as one pumps the rod ( upand down ward as well as sideways ) , again to counteract the movements of the fish , I wud prefer a bit more diameter for the foregrip than the one on Caranx Kaibutsu .
Jon .
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Hi Yu Hock,
When I first started popping about 10 years back, there were hardly any purpose built rods that were available for us to use. That period before the influx of Japanese rods that came in saw us experimenting with quite a few different blanks to get something to suit our needs. One of the better working ones was a 2 pc Graphcast which was from CD if I remember correctly. If you dont mind a mid joint blank, the rod was not excessively stiff and yet had pretty reasonable power for mid size GTs to 30kg. Probably could be close to what you wanted if you wished to do your short butt pop rod.
But baitcasting blanks are built primarily for accuracy, not distance. For distance with a GT rod, I cannot see how you can possibly cast a short handled rod as far as a longer handled rod. It is a simple matter of leverage
Never mind if it is not for distance. We are discussing about the furthest one can hit with 3 types of handle to conclude that short or longest handle is not necessary the right or wrong thing. It is all about using the right handle length for different action of blanks. There is a right balance to every blank and angler; the longest of handle will mean a shorter length to load and propel the popper. Too short a handle on a stiff and long rod will create too great a leverage against the angler. We gone down that path before on how I cant find the right rod to build.
Thanks Dan, but I got a FOC one from a manufacturer to work on. Just need to rework on the butt section a little to find my own sweet spot. Will definitely try your low mount method when opportunity arises. ;)
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Am about to set out getting ready for mi Maldives popping trip in March 09. Saw this rod in shop. Was advised by my kakis on board the same trip to try the rod out first due to its long butt.
Here, i read about Dan giving advise on using a lower mount belt to counter the effect of the long butt. Im using a OEM belt which was mounted, quite similar to a Sevensea belt. Im pretty sure, this would make mi stance very cumbersome due to the long butt. So i asked, which belt u guys have in mind that would suit the Kaibutsu without breaking the back and the bank?
Im looking at the 8'6 model. Would matching it with a Ryobi Safari be good?
An OT question here, Would a Ryobi Safari filled with Avani GT PE 5 be enough for the GTs in Maldives?
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Hi Stockie. I use my Deep Monster Kaibutsu a fair bit. I personally like it and the long butt in my opinion is to enable a bit more leverage. I use a fairly wide gimbal belt with it. Made by Braid. A bit heavy but comfortable. I am 5 feet 11 and weigh 90kg. Also enjoy using my Wild Violence 80HX but have not found a fish big enough to seriously load it yet.
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Hi sachin chaudhry,
Thx for the heads up about the belt u use.
Any more suggestions?
Brandon,luke.. All the gurus here.
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Firstly - I ain't no guru, not even close! ;D Second, we can all only give you our opinions. You have to feel and test it for yourself to establish your own comfort level.
I can't provide you with any advice on the use of the Caranx Kaibatsu as I just don't have any extended experience with the rod. I have, however, experienced the longer butt with a WV83XH STR and what I can tell you is that the longer butt doesn't suit me personally. It's a matter of personal feel but I prefer a gimbal that sits higher, just below my waist so the lower gimbal mount for a Kaibatsu dosn't suit me personally.
I also cannot provide you with any views on the Ryobi Safari outside of the fact that the people who have used it seem to have been quite satisfied with it. In terms of its suitability in the Maldives with PE5, it might be helpful for you if you PM wongkz who has a Safari and has fished quite a bit around the Maldives.
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Thx Brandon,
Im looking for a low mount belt, any reccommand. Saw the GT Max, very very beautiful, but would it be suitable for a long butt rod?
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no, unfortuntely, it is not. That is one fo the belts I use and while you could loosen it and wear it lower, it isn't designed for this. The belt is curved and meant to sit higher.
You could look at some of the low mount belts like the Jigging Masters.
Thx Brandon,
Im looking for a low mount belt, any reccommand. Saw the GT Max, very very beautiful, but would it be suitable for a long butt rod?
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The Bling Bling factor on the GT Max is so enticing!
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if you like a blingy belt, check out some of the Jigging Masters - they look like something a Cylon from Battlestar Galactica would have on!
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hey guys
i am currently awaiting a custom built pe 8 popping rod , built on a 7'6 hastings single peice dual helix blank,
the blank is only rated 15-24kg but apparently will handle pe 8 without a problem( the builder has made
another few popping rods with this blank) ,a seriously
underrated blank with plenty of power will post a couple of pics apon completion.