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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Brandon Khoo on March 14, 2010, 09:44:24 AM
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Just out of interest, I'm curious as to how most of our members are rigging their poppers and stickbaits. I posted a thread a while back on the various methods but wondered whether most people were using the more traditional two trebles or had converted to using Bakers or even the assist-rigged single. Also, do you right stickbaits differently?
For me, I use all of the rigs depending on how they feel on a popper but my standard is a treble off the belly and a single off the tail. For stickbaits, I tend to use the Baker off the belly and a single off the tail as this seems to result in the best action. I won't use the assist rigged single on a stickbait as to me, it impacts on the action and in particular, makes surface stickbaits swim in a really odd manner. Mind you, this may make the fish look even more injured!
www.gtpopping.com/forum/index.php?topic=1397.0 (http://www.gtpopping.com/forum/index.php?topic=1397.0)
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I still prefer a treble off the belly of all poppers/pencils and either a big single or another treble off the tail. For stickbaits, baker rigged with a single off the tail on everything except gt gamma's. Haven't tried the head assist yet but it does look mighty efficient going off the various nomad dvd's.
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One thing I've noticed about hanging a treble off the belly of a lure is that it tends to rub and mark the finish of the lures a lot more than Baker rigged belly hooks. For this reason, on new lures I run Baker on the belly and a single on the tail. Old lures that are already chewed and carved up, I mostly run trebles on both front and back.
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Still prefer trebles for most scenerios. The weight is near even and acts like a keel to keep lures running true, in the case of stickbaits the additional weight helps sink the lure (running sub-surface is usually my preference, even then, rod tip up or faster retrieve and you can still have it snake on the surface). The other virtue is of course plenty of hook exposure!
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split rings and trebles all the way for me.
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Run baker on belly and a larger single off the rear on all my lures (ie SJ51 9/0 on belly the SJ51/41 11/0 on tail). Don't use trebles at all. Originally I used to run trebles but found they damaged the fish on occasions (rips on side) which I really don't like. I have noted when writing my trip reports recently that when thinking about it we do miss a lot of strikes, maybe need to relook at hook configurations? Recently tried Realbait 170's with the baker/single rig and think they would have really benefitted from a large treble to help stabilise.
As an interesting experiment when you're really bored one day is to try swimming your stickbaits with no hooks....you'll soon see just how dependant on the hook weight they are for their action.
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trebles for yellowfin tuna , want to tire the fish quick and find with 2 big trebles on a popper- the fish cant close its mouth so the fight is shorter - still 30-45min though ..this is for the table . GT's gone to baker / single rig . any one got trebles for FCL SQUIDPENS ??
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When I fished with Nomad last year we dropped a ridiculous amount of fish despite using singles and it just didn't convince me that the hook retention rate is more superior. That said, none of the fish were really over 40kg and I suspect the more powerful fish with stronger jaws and longer fight time could change the scenario but I've just decided to stick with trebles for the time being.
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When I fished with Nomad last year we dropped a ridiculous amount of fish despite using singles and it just didn't convince me that the hook retention rate is more superior. That said, none of the fish were really over 40kg and I suspect the more powerful fish with stronger jaws and longer fight time could change the scenario but I've just decided to stick with trebles for the time being.
Dropped as in dropped post hookup or missed strikes? In our normal fishing we don't go through anything like the number of fish as you what catch on Nomad but I have to say that using baker/single once we do come up tight on a fish we generally never drop it if you maintain pressure - I can't remember the last time in fact.
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When I fished with Nomad last year we dropped a ridiculous amount of fish despite using singles and it just didn't convince me that the hook retention rate is more superior. That said, none of the fish were really over 40kg and I suspect the more powerful fish with stronger jaws and longer fight time could change the scenario but I've just decided to stick with trebles for the time being.
Dropped as in dropped post hookup or missed strikes? In our normal fishing we don't go through anything like the number of fish as you what catch on Nomad but I have to say that using baker/single once we do come up tight on a fish we generally never drop it if you maintain pressure - I can't remember the last time in fact.
Dropped post hook up, hook up rate was about the same as my experience with trebles but it really spun me out how many fish were dropped after we hooked up.
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Hi guys,
Stick baits - Baker on the belly with a single on the rear.
Poppers - I was a treble on the belly & single on the rear man. But having tried an assist from the front of the lure at Jewell last year with good success (didn't miss many and didn't have many drop off). I'm going to give that a go on the next trip and see how I go.
Tight lines Dave
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When I fished with Nomad last year we dropped a ridiculous amount of fish despite using singles and it just didn't convince me that the hook retention rate is more superior. That said, none of the fish were really over 40kg and I suspect the more powerful fish with stronger jaws and longer fight time could change the scenario but I've just decided to stick with trebles for the time being.
Dropped as in dropped post hookup or missed strikes? In our normal fishing we don't go through anything like the number of fish as you what catch on Nomad but I have to say that using baker/single once we do come up tight on a fish we generally never drop it if you maintain pressure - I can't remember the last time in fact.
Dropped post hook up, hook up rate was about the same as my experience with trebles but it really spun me out how many fish were dropped after we hooked up.
Damn beginners ;) ;) ;)
Interesting observation though. Any ideas why?
Also does anyone else have the trouble with ripping the fish while using trebles or did I just get unlucky?
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Hey Travis
I found that trebles were doing a fair bit of damage also, i have been using the assist hook on the
front of most poppers and one single on the rear for pretty good results, on the smaller poppers
using the baker on the belly and single on the tail
stickbaits baker on the belly and single on the tail, tried bakers on the belly and baker on the tail
on the last trip and stickbaits swam really well but the fishing was quiet so couldnt comment on hookup rates
John
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When I fished with Nomad last year we dropped a ridiculous amount of fish despite using singles and it just didn't convince me that the hook retention rate is more superior. That said, none of the fish were really over 40kg and I suspect the more powerful fish with stronger jaws and longer fight time could change the scenario but I've just decided to stick with trebles for the time being.
Dropped as in dropped post hookup or missed strikes? In our normal fishing we don't go through anything like the number of fish as you what catch on Nomad but I have to say that using baker/single once we do come up tight on a fish we generally never drop it if you maintain pressure - I can't remember the last time in fact.
Dropped post hook up, hook up rate was about the same as my experience with trebles but it really spun me out how many fish were dropped after we hooked up.
Damn beginners ;) ;) ;)
Interesting observation though. Any ideas why?
Also does anyone else have the trouble with ripping the fish while using trebles or did I just get unlucky?
None whatsoever, the guides were speachless (and frustrated...), but there was nothing we were doing wrong.
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Re fish falling off, I think you just get days like that. No idea why though. We had days in Seychelles last year where we were dropping them 4 times for each capture. And that is dropping after a big run against a decent drag suggesting that the fish was well and truely on. All the other geets I've hooked have stayed on. I've only lost them from reefing.
I think it might be some behavioural thing where sometimes they just grip the bait and run rather than eating it.. Or something like that!
Happens with other fish species as well. Then you go out the next day and smack them. One of those things.
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Re fish falling off, I think you just get days like that. No idea why though. We had days in Seychelles last year where we were dropping them 4 times for each capture. And that is dropping after a big run against a decent drag suggesting that the fish was well and truely on. All the other geets I've hooked have stayed on. I've only lost them from reefing.
I think it might be some behavioural thing where sometimes they just grip the bait and run rather than eating it.. Or something like that!
Happens with other fish species as well. Then you go out the next day and smack them. One of those things.
GT activity and willingness to strike obviously change due to certain factors. I have a few theories beyond the obvious and accepted, but nothing sound. Still a few things I have yet to work out - ah...the art of fishing...
Timid strikes, where barely a nose touches the lure or a tail-slap/turning AWAY side swipe is involved almost always results in shallow outside the mouth hook-ups, often meaning that hooks will pull very easily. Even after a big initial run where hooks *feel* like they are rock-solid can work loose or rip from the flesh.
On the other hand, GTs rearing their backs from 10 metres away, or complete several second mauling(s) of the lure on the surface are often sucked well into the mouth resulting in solid hook-ups. Although, such high activity and willingness to destroy a lure can make them susceptible to body and side hook-ups due to the amount of movement and thrashing involved during these strikes.
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I agree with your theory's Luke. I have had a few experiences of strikes very close to the boat on stick baits where the fish grabs the lure and almost hangs in the water motionless then just spits it out. I suspect they are very smart fish and were just checking to see if it was edible ;D. Other days they are simply fired up and smash anything no messing around.
My mate Gav mentioned to me on the last day of his recent Nomad trip that he was running assist off the front and single off the rear (poppers) and the hookup rate was terrible, then he switched to a baker on the belly and first strike he hooked up.
So yet another variable in the game of fishing ::) Sometimes they crash tackle the lure, sometimes swipe halfheartedly, sometimes tailing the lure just to see the frustration of the angler ;)
For me I use baker and single. I have been toying with the idea of running an assist as well but I think it is one of those backup plans if fish are hitting but the hookup rate is not there. I have ruled out trebles simply because of the damage they sometimes cause, although I like the idea of the treble on the belly and single on the rear. Ha basically my views are always changing! The more you know the less you know ???
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Hi Travis,
Yip Im with you on this one. We have had more damaged fish on trebles. Although it does sometimes happen on singles. Generally our whole group now fish baker rigs on centre with larger singles on rear all with crushed barbs for poppers and stickbaits, for some of the larger stickbaits we are still sourcing some larger 13/0 for the front bakers - every now and then a lure gets chucked with a treble dangling off it. The damage generally occurs around the pectoral fins most times. We haven't noticed a remarkable difference in hookups but fish are sometimes dropped. We figured far better droppin a fish now and again than damaging one.
I have noticed that most fish are generally caught in the scissors by one of the bakers. Haven't experimented too much with assists - will do as soon as the weather clears.
Whats the general consensus on fishing singles tight up against the back of the stickbait or extended via swivel? this is where we have differeing opinions.
Nick
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Nick, 13/0 SJ41's are available locally. I've bought them at my local tackleshop. Nomad sell them through their online shop as well as a bunch of other online shops.
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Whats the general consensus on fishing singles tight up against the back of the stickbait or extended via swivel? this is where we have differeing opinions.
Nick
Not sure Nick - I generally fish it just with a single split ring with the hook gape facing up rather than down. The swivel will add some extra length which could be handy on occasions. I'm not sold on assist hooks on poppers but that's because I like to keep Spaniards if we are lucky enough to get one and we don't have issues with sharks on poppers where we fish.
Warwick and I were having a conversation the other day about this thread. A mate recently went on a trip and head rigged assists were the rage - problem was on the last day he kept missing hookup after hookup. He changed to a conventional belly/tail hook rig and bam - hooked up first cast. You're never going to be able to tell what will work when you wake up on any given day, having a standard rig that you use to start out or that makes a particular lure swim well is a good thing but a good fisherman is one who can identify what is happening on any given day and be willing to change their rig to an option that will give them the best chance on that day. Which is why this forum is great - half the rigging options I would never have thought of myself.
Maybe a better question is how do you rig your stickbaits or poppers in different situations? Or what situation a particular hook rig the best for?
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Hi guys,
Here's a snap of a few hooks I've used for rigging stick baits and poppers- just for comparison.
Left to right - Fisherman Shiden 13/0, Owner SJ41 13/0, Owner SJ51 11/0, Mustad 10874BLN, Owner Jobu 9/0.
(http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss16/caranx50/IMG_0526.jpg)
For bakers I now tend to use the Mustad - the eye takes an 11H owner split ring and the wire is looks about the same gauge as an SJ51. The Mustad has about the same gape as the 13/0 SJ41 also. I stumbled on the Mustad by accident - I'm not generally a big fan of Mustad hooks....but this ones the exception!! The Mustad also works well head rigged or as a single on the tail. I also like the shape of the hook....kind of looks right for holding fish better when the barb is removed.....that might just be between my ears though :)
The SJ41 is also nice for Bakers as it has a big enough eye - lighter wire than the Mustad though. The SJ51 is nice for tail hooks on stickbaits or poppers or for head rigging.
Tight lines Dave