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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Brandon Khoo on June 19, 2009, 09:13:04 PM

Title: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on June 19, 2009, 09:13:04 PM
I've been getting a few PMs lately on a topic which a lot of is just take for granted. As a result, I thought I'd put a thread up on rigging hooks  for your poppers. Now if you're an experienced GT angler, go find something else to read!  ;D

Certainly, there are a number of ways to set your poppers up and a bit of experimentation after a couple of trips should sort out what you think works best for you.

In general, GT fishermen rig their poppers with either trebles, singles, Baker rigs or assist hooks. All of these methods work and we can all debate till the cows come home as to which method is the best. I have no intention of starting another debate as to what works best; what I will say is they all work and what you should do is experiment yourself and go with what you like best.

The Traditional Rig with Trebles

The traditional rig for a popper which was established by the Japanese, the people who invented the sport is to go with two trebles.

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/IMG_0141.jpg)

As you can see, rigging with trebles looks like there is a lot of hook all over the place. That said, GTs are notoriously good at throwing trebles and if you want to fish with these, you will need to be very good at keeping the tension on the line throughout the fight. A tiny amount of slack could see you lose the fish.


Baker Rig with a Single off the Tail


(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/IMG_0131.jpg)

This is a relatively new rig that was developed just a few years back. I actually named the rig and it's called the Baker Rig because it's named after Tim Baker, one of the Nomad guides. Tim came up with this rig one evening when we trying to figure out how we could get two single hooks onto one hook point on a lure. Initially, we weren't using anything to hold the two hooks together and it drove us mad as the hooks kept reversing around the swivel but since that time, Nomad guide use a small cable tie while I prefer to use a bit of electrical tape.

I note George Pang uses rubber bands. I don't think it matters what you use as long as you carry a few of them because nearly every fish will break what you are using to hold the hooks together. That is actually what you want as you want the hooks to swing on their own once the fish is hooked up as you don't want the fish to be able to exert pressure on the hooks against each other.

There is no reason why you could not run a baker rig off the tail of the popper as well but most of us tend to run a big single.

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/IMG_0140.jpg)
Baker-rigged hooks - note use of electrical tape to hold hooks together


Rigging with Assist Hooks

This is a newer rig which Nomad have started to use as well. This was bought to them by their new guide from Musandam, Glanville Heydenrych. I believe that this is used by a number of European anglers and Glanville picked it up when they were on a charter in Oman. The rig is actually very effective and I think the reason for this is that GTs tend to strike poppers when the popper is stationary. As a result, the single hooks is well exposed. Glanville believes that when the fish inhales the poppers, the maelstrom around the poppers means the hooks is swinging all over the place. Whatever the reason, the rig is definitely very effective. You can tie your won assist or if you like to buy them pre-made, the big Shout assist are excellent.

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/IMG_0133.jpg)
Assist rigged popper with single tail hook

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/IMG_0134.jpg)
Assist hooks is attached to the towing point

We found the above approach with an assist hook and single off the tail to be very effective with one potential problem. I saw twice in one trip where the fish was obviously hooked with both the assist hook and the hook and was able to exert direct pressure of each hook against each other. As a result, both hooks straightened and the fish escaped.

It may actually be better if you want to use this approach to rig the popper with just the assist hook and nothing else. I know it looks as if there isn't enough hook coverage but it works and works well.

(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/IMG_0135.jpg)
Assist rigged popper with no tail hook


Hooks to Use

In terms of trebles, the only hooks i recommend for decent sized GTs are Owner ST-76 5/0s, Decoy GTs and Gamakatsu Recorders. Fisherman also make a treble but it is crazy expensive. Don't bother using other types of trebles and any decent fish will destroy them. I know it may seem hard to believe that such a big hook can actually be straightened but believe it!! Just make sure that your popper is not over-weighted by the trebles. If so, it might be a good idea to go to a smaller or lighter pair of treble or use a single off the tail.

For baker rigs, the most used hook is the Owner SJ-41 11/0. OWner have just released the 13/0 but these are not widely available at this stage. Other hooks that you can use for Bakers include the Owner SJ-51 11/0, Owner Jobu in 8/0 (or 9/0 if you have a monster popper) Decoy Cutlass in 8/0 or 10/0 etc.

For tail hooks, I use the Fisherman Shiden 13/0, Owner SJ-51 11/0 (on smaller poppers up to about 140g), Decoy Cutlass 10/0 or Shout Kudako 7/0. A very popular hook also is the Jobu 9/0 which I don't tend to use as I just don't like the look of it as the shaft looks too long. Just remember that you may need to use two split rings off the tail in order to get the hook pointing properly upwards. To be honest, I've never really worked out whether it makes any difference if the hook points upwards or downwards or even to the side but I generally rig with the point upwards.

I don't doubt that there are many other hooks out there that are suitable. It's a matter of experimenting with them and hoping you don't lose the fish of a life time with an experiment!

Balancing your popper with hooks

I've been getting a number of questions of late on what are the best hooks to use on specific poppers. This is a very good question but is not one that is so easily answered. First, let me state the obvious - if your popper is sinking, then I suggest that the hook combination isn't ideal and you need to lose some weight in terms of the hooks.

Finding the right hook combination is a matter of experimentation and it will vary with conditions. What you need for optimal popper performance in calm conditions will most likely be different to what you need in rough conditions. In rough conditions, you may find that more weight at the back will help as a form of keel and assist in keeping the popper in the water. All of that said, popping in rough conditions simply means you need to exercise more care in the timing of your pop. If you are going to give your popper an almighty rip with it is at the top of a crest, then your popper is going to go flying and you have noone to blame but yourself. You have to watch your popper and time your pop.

Some poppers are designed to work with only hooks on the belly like the Sea Frog.

Just remember that the hook combination that another angler uses may not be optimal for you depending on the way you pop. if your best mate pops from the gimbal and you pop from the side, then obviously you're both using your popper differently.


Anyway, I hope the information above is useful in helping you get your lures properly rigged. If you have any further questions, please ask.





Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Mick Cunningham on June 19, 2009, 09:34:40 PM
interesting post well done brandon .

keep up all the good work  ::)


umm
that Rigging with Assist Hooks is new to me

Would you use the Rigging with Assist Hooks and baker rigging aswell together or not ??
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Sam Conacher on June 19, 2009, 09:59:06 PM
Thanks Brandon some handy info there.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Damien Phillip on June 19, 2009, 10:21:18 PM
Very informative once again. Cheers B.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: luke peters on June 19, 2009, 10:44:15 PM
Great post Brandon really informative. As always

When making assist hooks for the head, the length would vary between popper's. So it would be handy to have a roll in my tackle box. Would the 330lb Varivas ss assist be suitable for this or should i look at something around 400lb
Title: Re: How to rig hooks onto your poppers
Post by: Wong Kai Zhee on June 20, 2009, 01:49:34 AM
the knot u use to tie the assist looks interesting.

can u show step by step how its done?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Robert Palcak on June 20, 2009, 06:58:38 AM
Hi Brandon

Another great write up... cheers for that!
I'm just wondering... when rigging an assist off the head, should the hook point be closest to the lure body(as pictured) or pointed out?

Cheers Rob
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on June 20, 2009, 07:59:46 AM
Luke - I don't think it really matters that much whether you use 330lb or 400lb. I'd probably go with the 400lb myself.

Rob, I only put it that way for illustrative purposes. I think what is important is that the cord is long enough for it to be clear of the cup
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Travis Heaps on June 20, 2009, 08:21:22 AM
Great article Brandon.

I think it's important to test and be selective of the poppers you use the front rigged assist on.  From my (very limited) experience with the rig - i've tried it on one lure - it may affect the action.  The lure I tried it on suffered from the front hook, it dragged the cup down and made it difficult to pop.

(PS you need to stop it with all these great articles - otherwise everyone will come here, read and never have to ask any questions  :P ;) ;))
Title: Re: How to rig hooks onto your poppers
Post by: PeterD on June 20, 2009, 10:33:43 AM
Thanks for that Brandon. I'm keen to try the Baker rig out.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on June 20, 2009, 11:02:12 AM
Travis, you've hit onto a very important point re the assist rig. Like yourself, I found that on some poppers, it really killed the action of the popper. I won't use this rig on a stickbait as it really seems to retard the action of some stickbaits. I'm so familiar with the action of my favourite sticbaits I can almost feel it isn't right just when retrieving the lure without seeing it.

I actually posted this hoping I wouldn't get so many PMs or e-mails on the topic. If anything, I've failed! ;D
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Greg Burt on June 20, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
One lure I found the Assist Rig helped in it's action is the Heru Ulua, the drag on the nose imparted a bit more action in the stickbait and holding it in the water a bit more.
Title: Re: How to rig hooks onto your poppers
Post by: NathanMcNiece on June 20, 2009, 10:18:56 PM
hey brandon, what would you use on small poppers like r2s dumbell pop 150's and roosta 135's?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on June 21, 2009, 10:24:50 PM
On snaller poppers, I just tend to go with trebles generally. I tend to change to Owner ST-66s on most but relaistically, I'm not sure how necessary that is on small poppers. It is more a case that I can't be bothered making up Bakers of this size. I have use some of the opposite eye Owner and Decoy hooks and found these to be good too as singles. On the last serious barra trip I did, I fished quite a bit with singles and found these to work reasonably well. I'd actually like to rig some barra lures with hooks attached with assists to see how they go.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Warwick Joyce on June 23, 2009, 09:25:06 AM
I am keen to try singles and twin hooks on smaller gear as well brandon. I got my hands on one of those dogtooth 40 from nomad and want to try it out on barra. I was thinking how I should rig it, it will be trial and error to get the right weight and action. It will be either baker rig or twins, I dont use trebles much anymore ;) Personal pref......
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: PeterD on June 23, 2009, 09:43:02 AM
On snaller poppers, I just tend to go with trebles generally. I tend to change to Owner ST-66s on most but relaistically, I'm not sure how necessary that is on small poppers. It is more a case that I can't be bothered making up Bakers of this size. I have use some of the opposite eye Owner and Decoy hooks and found these to be good too as singles. On the last serious barra trip I did, I fished quite a bit with singles and found these to work reasonably well. I'd actually like to rig some barra lures with hooks attached with assists to see how they go.

Interesting you say that about the Barra lure's i have been thinking about doing the same. I have been spinning for Jew with hard body Barra style lure's locally and i can't keep the things connected. They all seem to come to the surface and with big barra head shakes throw the lure across the river.

How did you find the single's hook up rate compared to the treble's Brandon?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on June 23, 2009, 12:34:35 PM
to be honest, I found the singles very effective on the hook-up and no less so than trebles. I wonder whether this may be the way in which the barras suck the lures in.

You may find it worthwhile trying a small baker rig on the hardbodies you are using for jewies or perhaps even attached singles wiith an assist. From my experience, the single hooks attached by an assist are a lot harder to throw than trebles
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: David Clumpner on June 23, 2009, 12:52:19 PM
Brandon, I noticed your sample popper got pretty beat up as the pictures went along.   :D

Also, you mentioned that you wouldn't bother with a baker on smaller poppers. Can you define 'smaller' poppers?  (Actually, all I want to know is where does a Sea Frog 120 fit?)
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: PeterD on June 23, 2009, 01:16:29 PM
to be honest, I found the singles very effective on the hook-up and no less so than trebles. I wonder whether this may be the way in which the barras suck the lures in.

You may find it worthwhile trying a small baker rig on the hardbodies you are using for jewies or perhaps even attached singles wiith an assist. From my experience, the single hooks attached by an assist are a lot harder to throw than trebles

Thanks for that Brandon ill give it a go.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on June 23, 2009, 02:05:22 PM
Sorry David, I should be more careful with my language. By not bothering, what I meant was that smaller fish are a by-catch and I personally wouldn't bother doing it as bakers need to be made up.

I remain of the view that fish that jump and shake their heads aggressively may be better targeted with singles and bakers, especially with the flexibility of assist cord.

A 120 Sea Frog will go fine with a baker made out of 11/0 SJ41s.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: NathanMcNiece on June 24, 2009, 09:58:20 AM
yeah i tangled with a 20-30kg gt yesterday on a r2s 150 and it wasnt the trebles that failed me and I was putting a fair bit of power into the fish but unfortunately it was the leader that wore through
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Jay Burgess on August 26, 2009, 08:17:20 PM
Has anybody tried using an assist rigged off the head, jobu on the rear AND a baker rig on the belly?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on August 26, 2009, 08:52:34 PM
unless you're using something like an ebipop 200, I think that the assist would probably snag on the Baker.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Jay Burgess on August 26, 2009, 09:24:31 PM
unless you're using something like an ebipop 200, I think that the assist would probably snag on the Baker.

Yep that's what I was thinking of using it on.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on August 26, 2009, 09:29:22 PM
can be done but boy, it'll be heavy!
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Jay Burgess on August 26, 2009, 10:08:06 PM
No more so than a couple of big trebles??
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: David Sharples on August 27, 2009, 01:39:53 AM
to be honest, I found the singles very effective on the hook-up and no less so than trebles. I wonder whether this may be the way in which the barras suck the lures in.

You may find it worthwhile trying a small baker rig on the hardbodies you are using for jewies or perhaps even attached singles wiith an assist. From my experience, the single hooks attached by an assist are a lot harder to throw than trebles

I use exclusively singles on minnows for nile perch which are similar in the way they feed to Barras and Jewies. My hook up and retention rate has gone up a lot. Used to get loads of hooks thrown on the strike and on jumps but not now.

Was a very good swap. Use Tiemco 600SP in 6/0, damn those things are sharp.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Greg Burt on August 27, 2009, 07:28:59 AM
We used the setup a few times at Bugatti but found it to heavy and sunk or the extra hook killed the action on most lures including the Edipop, the  Baker rig was taken off and it worked fine and actually enhanced the action on the Ulua by the drag on the Assist hook getting the nose down.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on August 27, 2009, 08:04:07 AM
I can only suggest that you experiment and find what works for you.I personally do not like the assist on the front of a stickbait at all as I don't like what it does to the action.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Marc Vandaele on May 17, 2010, 02:59:16 AM
thanks again for this great information Brandon
but i am wondering what kind of assistcord you using  for poppers and do you keep this also to 1/3 op popperlength like  jigging?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on May 17, 2010, 06:30:08 AM
I'm not that particular - I generally use the YGK kevlar as it can be spliced into a loop but I will pretty much use any type of kevlar I can get my hands on! In terms of length, I think it is more a case of experimenting and finding what you think works for you. I think a length of two to three inches is adequate. Whatever you use, you will have incredibly frustrating days when you won't hook a damn thing because the fish are just slapping at the lures. Just need to persevere.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Peter Childs on May 19, 2010, 10:08:28 AM
Brandon, I used the assist hook off the head quite a bit on a recent trip to Fiji, mainly on cubera 100s and 125s.  What I did find, was that after repeated casting the assist cord started to wear a grove in the cup of the popper due to water pressure.  Whilst it didn't seam to affect the performance of the popper, it didn't always settle in the dead down position (it might start to wear to one side for example). 

I can imagine over time the wear will severely compromise the paint coating and lead to water logging of the popper!  Luckily?, I was losing poppers to being reefed more often than changing them due to water logging.  Have you experienced this, and what have you done to combat it? 

PS. I also found that an assist of the head and a spinner off the tail to be a good balance on some poppers.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Mark Harris on July 24, 2010, 02:49:16 PM
Peter, you might want to try softening the surface of the Kevlar cord by using heat shrink. Instinctively it feels that a soft heat shrink surface will not wear into the cup in any way. Just a thought.

Until reading this article I had never heard of (and certainly never used!) an assist cord off the front of a popper. I still have not used it in anger, but rigged a few different poppers that way and tried some beach-casting tests the other evening. As Brandon pointed out right at the start, you have to be selective on which poppers you use this rigging on. Some really misbehaved while others came in beautifully.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the mine of great tips and information in this forum.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Craig WILLIAMS on October 21, 2010, 06:21:50 PM
Ive been having issues getting hold of Owner SJ-41 in size 11/0 recently and I've been told the 11/0 and 13/0 have been discontinued.. I'm not sure why as the 13/0 was a relatively new addition to the range I thought and surely 11/0 would have been one of the most popular sizes??

Ive just checked on the Australian Owner website and they only list SJ-41 available in sizes 3/0 to 9/0 and more surprisingly SJ-51 in 5/0 to 7/0 only..

Can anyone shed some light on this?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Nathan Cefai on October 27, 2010, 03:57:49 PM
A dvd from Nomad has Glanville and Damon using poppers with just Jig Assist hoooks attached to the front of the popper,pretty succesfull..
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on November 18, 2010, 08:07:00 AM
Peter, I don't think I have ever seen this happen before!

Brandon, I used the assist hook off the head quite a bit on a recent trip to Fiji, mainly on cubera 100s and 125s.  What I did find, was that after repeated casting the assist cord started to wear a grove in the cup of the popper due to water pressure.  Whilst it didn't seam to affect the performance of the popper, it didn't always settle in the dead down position (it might start to wear to one side for example). 

I can imagine over time the wear will severely compromise the paint coating and lead to water logging of the popper!  Luckily?, I was losing poppers to being reefed more often than changing them due to water logging.  Have you experienced this, and what have you done to combat it? 

PS. I also found that an assist of the head and a spinner off the tail to be a good balance on some poppers.
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Ryan Theyer on June 23, 2011, 11:12:13 PM
Thanks mate. handy info
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: John Shin on October 24, 2011, 11:58:09 AM
Great information.  Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Troy Marien on August 08, 2012, 06:39:33 PM
Great read! The areas I am fishing aren't loaded with fish. They are more likely to hit the lure once and not come back if they miss. Which rig would you recommend?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Ali Saadi on June 16, 2013, 03:36:47 AM
Great article
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Daniel Wen on July 03, 2013, 08:42:20 PM
Hi guys! yes the baker rig is very similiar to the rig we use in K. rompin off malaysia for casting poppers/stickbaits 40g-80g to sailfish!
We use any kinda thread or PE to lash the 2 hooks together wand then via a short length of assist cord( secured to hooks with glue and heat shrink) , the hooks are attached to the lure!
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Mahmoud Salem on September 08, 2013, 07:16:19 AM
Thanks for the useful write up
I have a problem when rigging Baker rig for small stickbaits(55-80gm) for big blue fin tuna, most of this size of stickbaits are recommended to be used with ST66 3/0 which are not strong enough for long fights with such strong fish, so I thought the Baker rig will be the answer so I can use stonger hooks without disturbing the lure balance by using heavier trebles/single hook on front
The problem is that any split strong enough (150lb+) will be too thick for the hooks(I'm using Gamakatsu LB HD 7/0 & 8/0, very close to Owner SJ 41)
too thick that the hooks will only stay in the place where the split is opened(one wrap of wire), I'm almost surethat this will cause leverage on the hook/split and may cause the split to open

Do you have any suggestions
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Brandon Khoo on September 08, 2013, 11:02:23 AM
I assume you're targeting the really serious bluefin if you're talking about split rings not being strong enough. Those fish are big enough to engulf the whole lure so how about just using singles which you tie direct to the lure using assist cord?
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: Mahmoud Salem on September 08, 2013, 05:14:53 PM
I assume you're targeting the really serious bluefin if you're talking about split rings not being strong enough. Those fish are big enough to engulf the whole lure so how about just using singles which you tie direct to the lure using assist cord?
Brandon, you are right, I'm targeting big blue fin tuna (70 kg and bigger), I've been advised that though single assists may work with some lures, they will compromise the action of many (like a Gamma for example)
We will be using Smith Tokara & Race Point 250 rods which are a challenge to cast and work such stickbaiats as we need powerful rods, so I'm afraid single hooks combined with stiff rod tip will totally kill the action of the lures
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: CliffKhoo on November 22, 2013, 12:58:50 PM
I had just came back from my first maldives trip and I got to say the single assist hook is awesome. 6 hits 6 hook ups. Though I modified it into double strand assist hook. Its an awesome rig. Thank you for sharing. 
Title: Re: How to rig your poppers with hooks
Post by: rudigonzales on March 05, 2018, 04:22:06 PM
nice info. thanks Brandon