GTPopping.com - Giant Trevally, GTPopping, Topwater & GT Fly-Fishing Resource
General => General Topwater & Jigging Discussion => Topic started by: kriss brown on December 31, 2010, 01:09:27 PM
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hi
I would like to know what brands have the thinest diameter braid and good breaking strength? from 30lb to 50lb line class.apart from the tuf line.any comment would be appreciated.
cheers
kriss
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Kriss, assuming it is casting braid you are referring to (?), I think you need to consider more than the breaking strength versus diameter.
A number of braids on the thinner side have questionable shock absorbsing characteristics and have a tendency to "explode" when loaded up and cast with a heavy lure. I don't want to bag any specific product but the ones in question are quite well known for this.
Taking that into account, I would recommend Varivas Avani BigOne (designed as a jigging braid) as the best narrow diameter versus bs braid I have cast in the weight class you mention:
PE3 - 48 lbs
PE4 - 64 lbs
Unlike some of the "super braids" around, never had any problems with this one at all. Expensive for sure, but very reliable in my experience.
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Read the Paulus VG Braid Buying Guide (http://www.pcwi.com.au/fishing/4linetestingbuy.htm).
Some of the very expensive jap name brand braids are breaking a little under strength, Daiwa Saltiga Boat Braid is doing really well for price v's strength & thickness.
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For a casting braid, I reiterate that the ability to deal with shock is a very important factor, along with the BS.
Eg on Paulus' tests, PowerPro tests quite well. But as I have experienced along with many others, this is a questionable option for heavy casting due to its tendency to explode under shock in mid air.
He is doing an admirable job with those tests but I think a GT fisherman needs to know a lot more than pure BS. His testing techniques have also received some criticism on "other" forums :).
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hay mark & jamie
Thanks for the prompt reply.i have the quires about the line becuase when i tested few of the braided line they break under than what is stated on cover.for eg40lb line break around 35lb or under .And some line explode due to heavy casting too.dont like to mention the brand.I am land base angler by mainly.when hook to decent fish like spanish n long tail i need quite a bit of line.
The more i thought i know more about my tackle the less i knew.
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Paulus has responded to the criticism on the other forum.
Kriss: how did you do your tests? One of the big problems with braid is that its much harder to get a knot that holds a high % of the line strength, this is given as one of the reasons that line manufactures provide braid that tests so much over it's rated breaking strain.
This probably relates to why thinner braids may have much lower knot strength.
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Kriss, looking at your objectives, go for Varivas Avani BigOne if your budget stretches to it. Very soft and supple and tests high in relatively thin diameters.
Although I usually use Varivas Avani GT Max for casting, I have cast BigOne PE6 with lures as heavy as 180grams and no shock issues. Every reason to expect the BigOne smaller diameters to similarly problem-free.
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For a casting braid, I reiterate that the ability to deal with shock is a very important factor, along with the BS.
Eg on Paulus' tests, PowerPro tests quite well. But as I have experienced along with many others, this is a questionable option for heavy casting due to its tendency to explode under shock in mid air.
He is doing an admirable job with those tests but I think a GT fisherman needs to know a lot more than pure BS. His testing techniques have also received some criticism on "other" forums :).
I am a land based angler and PowerPro has ALWAYS been good for me. I've also used JB solid and hollow and these lines are good too. I used some Varivas my friend gave to me and it got shredded on the 2nd time I used it.....so I never used it again. Never experienced any beakoffs during casting with the PowerPro (10 lb all the way through 150lb). I'm not the biggest guy, but I can cast decently, with large lures too. The PowerPro has held up pretty well considering the areas I fish in are full of obstacles. Just wanted to give another view of the line I use the most.
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i have looked through paul guide.well research.thnks for the guidence.
I test my braid by tied one of the simple loop at the end of the line it hold 95 % of its strength.pulled directly straight from the reel without running through the rod guide.my spring system weighing is quite accurate.i have only tested to 40lb maximum.i had use numbers of brand but not Varivas Avani GTand JB hollow.With powerpro i have tried in 10lb line classes not soo many issued only sometimes with wind knot snaps.i blamed it more on me than the line.
hay Mark what lb powerpro line do you fill your spooled with?and how many meter did you get away?
I did mention earlier in the beginning of the topic about no comment about tuf line.but i would like to know what about the Tuf line with casting issued?IF anyone had used.
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Testing the way you did, its very hard to separate the actual line strength from the knot strength.
Imagine you get sold line as 30lb, test your knots and they come out at 27lb, that looks great right? What happens if the line is really thick old hairy 60lb line, but one that ties shitty knots?
Nothing really wrong with tufline xp, I'm using their 15lb as my PE2 jigger and its great. A few people use the heavier classes for GT pop too it seems.
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Warwick who is on this forum fishes Powerpro with no problems casting at all, much as Mark G has experienced. Kriss, I use Tufline XP on a range of reels and have had no issues with it at all, love it.
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Ive been using the Penn Pursuit Multi Coloured braid for the last couple of years and find it great.
Its an eight carrier braid, has a nice rounder profile and Knot strength is excellent. Has anyone Else on here tried it.
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Berkley Whiplash is one of the thinnest braid but not my favourite , I still stick with certain Varivas but not the thinnest version , still prefer some " beef " in the line for additional shock resistance .
Jon .
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They just make up the numbers for whiplash. Actual bears no resemblance to quoted diameter.
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Pleased to hear that PowerPro still has some fans :).
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jeeezzz i m kinda lost..... :D :D
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hay Mark what lb powerpro line do you fill your spooled with?and how many meter did you get away?
I use 10,20 lb for general purpose casting for small game (small GT, threadfin, scads, goatfishes,etc.). I use 30,65 lb for soaking bait. I use 65,100,150 for plugging and live baiting with leaders up to 300lb for GT. I also use the JB hollow 200-300lb with l2l leaders for live baiting near pier areas. I cant tell you how much line I put on the spools because I buy in bulk and just fill my spools. My reels with braid are Stella 4000FD,FE, XG; 5000SW, 8000SW, 18000SW and 20000SWPG.
When I compare the 65lb lines, Powerpro seems to have the smallest diameter....but I don't have the means to determine line diameter. On the 200lb JB I probably get about 175 yards on my spare 16000SWPG spool. With 65lb PowerPro, i suspect about 400+ yards on my 18000SW spool. Not a rocket science report but just what I use.
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hay Mark what lb powerpro line do you fill your spooled with?and how many meter did you get away?
Only used 60 something lbs and 80 something lbs. Just spooled a standard 300 yards spool on a SW 18000 (with a lot of nylon backing). Both exploded (the 80lbs twice) casting 150 to 200 grams poppers. I sent an email to Shimano about this (along with a bill for the two Crafbaits lost forever :'() and received no reply other than a standard "we value your custom" letter. There is a lot of fake PowerPro around but this was not - it was purchased at a Shimano direct dealer.
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Another up for Tufline XP from me by the way - it's my 3rd choice casting braid behind the Varivas Avani in different forms and JB solid.
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So far my choise of braid would be Varivas , Sunline and Tufline XP , personally had never used PowerPro but witnessed a friend having had 4 consecutive line breaks using it .
Jon .
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With Japanese brand PE line, I believe dyneema basically come from same company and only a few manufactures produce PE line within own factory and the rests are OEM, so diameter and strength shouldn't be too much different between Japanese brands.
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Tak, that is interesting.
Is the big Japanese Dyneema manufacturer Toyobo Corp?
Which of the main Japanese braid brands do you think are making their own product as opposed to badging from an OEM? .
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It's my understanding that Dyneema is made by Nippon Dyneema in Japan, the other manufacturer is in the US, Honeywell makes Spectra. I think the original patent was called Dyneema, made by DSM High Performance Fibres in Holland, they no longer make it
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Both are right - Nippon Dyneema is joint company between DSM and Toyobo.
Mark, my best guess is Sunline and YGK are making PE lines their own.
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Thanks Tak and Chris.
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Dyneema is the PE fiber and it still have to be weaved into PE line , it is true that DSM n it's affiliates produce the fiber but they don't make the PE line which we know as the fishing line , weaving them into fishing lines are done by the companies which are already familiar with us ; Varivas , Sunline , YGK , Western Filament , PowerPro , etc. .
Jon .
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Sure Jon.
I think Tak's point though is that the weaving is done mostly by OEM factories and then badged by the familiar fishing brands we know so well, and that Sunline and YGK are two large companies that are likely to be doing that weaving themselves. At least that is how I read it. I might be very wrong of course!
A small picky point ;), but I think PowerPro is Spectra and not Dyneema?
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Hi Mark ,
Spectra is trademark used by Allied Signal which is the licensee of DSM ( Dutch State Mine ) for their Dyneema fibers , Allied Signal has been acquired by another company , if not mistaken by Honeywell which now own the Spectra trade mark , however some manufacturers of PE line in US tend to use different methods of weaving than the Japanese manufacturers , the US one is generally thicker but can be produced more economically , Tuffline XP remains one of my favourite n the best value in money spent on PE line .
Jon .
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Excellent information Jon.. thanks a lot for that.
I guess the us makers are more prone to using fusing techniques which makes the "braid" cheaper but rather more rough in texture?
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cheers for all the comments.
Open my eyes bit wide open. I think i will try both Varivas Avani and tuf line first.one of my reel is only 4500 sizel,up coming season for lbg i dont want my mate to be lauging out loud if i get spooled because of i dont have enough line.I will be throwing mainly pencil popper and stick baits.hope they will be all right.of course there will be many practice before time comes.
Tak, that is interesting.
Is the big Japanese Dyneema manufacturer Toyobo Corp?
Which of the main Japanese braid brands do you think are making their own product as opposed to badging from an OEM? .
I dont have much knowledge like you guys about lines.If my memory serve me right mate of mine told me Dyneema are manufacturer in china.Corp in Japan.The products come from china.wouldnt make diffrence in quality?
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Warwick who is on this forum fishes Powerpro with no problems casting at all, much as Mark G has experienced. Kriss, I use Tufline XP on a range of reels and have had no issues with it at all, love it.
As Travis said, I have experienced no problem with the powerpro. However when I purchased the line it was still being made by the previous company, before Shimano bought them out. (if it makes a difference)
I was using 80lb. I have had no experience with powerpro since then. I found it rougher than other brands.
I am using Tuff line 100lb, sunline 8lb & 20lb and YGK jigman Dyneema in PE6. All of which I am happy with and have had no problems with.
My 2c :)
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That might be the key Warwick. I have heard similar mutterings about PP formerly being reliable.
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The PowerPro factory is still the one and original. Shimano is simply the owner now and is encouraging and funding further research, devleopment and innovation.
The same Boss, R&D, machinery is all used.
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Has anyone tried Daiwa's TD Sensor Braid in the heavier beraking strains? If so how did it go?
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Thanks for that clarification Luke.
I guess that R&D is to thank for the PowerPro 10 metre colour change braid which is now apparently available (only) in Japan: http://fishing.shimano.co.jp/cat/detail.asp?k=100956 (http://fishing.shimano.co.jp/cat/detail.asp?k=100956)
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That might be the key Warwick. I have heard similar mutterings about PP formerly being reliable.
As bad news travels faster than good, it is probably peoples bad experience and blaming the name change.
I have had no experience in braids exploding on the cast, maybe from a wrapped guide. I have seen a few bust offs at the reel from the impact of a big fish strikes, but you could blame that on old line and/or too higher drag.
I recon if your into tying on $100+ lures why skimp on the price of the line?
Maybe for me it comes down to the smoothness and roundness of the line, this equates to smoother casting for me.
Thats my other 2c :)
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Alot of your braids will break 20-30% less than what is said on the packaging or more less...Am i right?May only very top of the range might get to nearly 80% of on the packaging . So my question is why cant all the company state thier actual (real) breaking strength on all the packaging?Are they misleading us or there are more answers to the question?
Another point is also if my reel max drag is 10kg (22lb) .is there any point of using the line such as 30lb or 50lb??? cant i just get away with 25lb line?if my line really break at 25lb as packaging itself?
Sorry for all of these question.they are not making good judgements in my mind.
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Kriss, a lot of braid breaks over, and mono too.
As for reasons it overtests so often, so badly, I have been offered the theory that because braid knots are a lower percentage of the line's breaking strain. Its not totally unrealistic either, the thinner the line, the worse the problems are with most knots and certainly one reason why a good braid to mono knot, then terminal is tied off to mono.
You generally fish about a third of line strength as drag, and your terminal knots are usually about 65% of line strength. That means on say 10kg gear, you would be pulling 3.33kg of drag out the guides, and your knots would breat at about 6.67kg. The gap between the drag setting and your knots failing is insurance and helps account for other issues, like the drag increasing as your spool empties etc.
Fishing 1/3 of line strength as drag is a rule, and rules are made to be broken. You might get really good knots and decide to fish more, you might move to jb hollow and uses 100% fingercuff splices and crimp!