GTPopping.com - Giant Trevally, GTPopping, Topwater & GT Fly-Fishing Resource
General => General Topwater & Jigging Discussion => Topic started by: Graham Scott on January 10, 2012, 04:18:22 PM
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There are a few really good topics going on at the moment, Andrew's small GT's he's been finding without assistance, the destinations we get to...and Mark Harris's ridiculous lure collection. This is on top of an issue I have been mulling over for a while about whether I would even enjoy a GT guided trip.
Let me explain,
As I get on a bit older I have sort of changed my view on why I go fishing at all. Sure there's the fun of the catch and the brag photos of a big GT, but is that why we fish, or is it the research and knowledge gained? Is it the destination, is it the raw challenge of something quite difficult, is it companionship...or like Mark is it pure OCD?
If we split it up into a few categories and rate them I would be interested to see other's views
Research knowledge planning.....................................................30%
Working out where the fish will be and getting yourself there....20%
Raising a fish and getting it to strike...........................................30%
Fighting and landing a fish...........................................................20%
So in my case 80% of the fun is over the moment a GT's mouth hits the lure....and I get a lot of satisfaction out of finding and raising fish, so not sure how I'd go on a charter.
Any thoughts?
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I agree Graham - it is generally about all the stuff surrounding the actually capturing of the fish...sheesh, the vast majority of my fishing time is spent thinking about it rather than doing it! ;D
planning and anticipation - 25%
adventure and being in the location - 25%
seeing the fish - 10%
strike and fight - 15%
successful release - 15%
reliving and looking at photos afterwards - 10%
I know a mate of mine is the same - his first 4 trips went by without actually catching a GT, at this stage he went and bought $4000 worth of GT gear...so it can't all be about the catching! That doesn't exclude charters for me, but yeah my preference is self guided.
PS your inbox is full.
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Thanks for the tip Travis
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Graham
I take a slightly different view of the charter fishing. I'm fortunate enough to do a lot of fishing in my home waters on a regular basis for short half day trips. Most days I'm on my own, out of my own boat - which I've got to say adds up to a fair bit of work, but it is worth the effort.
When I look at a charter I see a few real benefits.
1) Being able to fish a place I might never be able to get my own boat to, teaming with fish or not (30%)
2) Meeting new people and seeing new scenery (20%)
3) Stepping off the boat at the end of the day (after drinking a beer on the way back in rather than a steering wheel in my hands) and leaving some other poor soul to the cleaning, refueling and prepping for tomorrow, whilst I have a warm shower and another pre dinner cocktail (% - can't even put a figure on that, lets call it 150%).
4) Learning new fishing techniques and ways of thinking - there is always something to learn from everyone - the lessons from the full time guys are even more valuable (20%)
5) Having the opportunity to focus on a technique, or new piece of equipment, the concentration for which might otherwise be disrupted for a whole bunch of issues.
A sprinkling of charters, is like a true fishermans holiday! Share it with some great people (whether or not you already know them) in a new location, and its a recipe greater than the sum of the parts........whether you catch fish or not!
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Excellent topic Graham.
I can't deny that there has to be an OCD element in the equipment side of things. However, as I am always joking about that and there is no denial, I guess it is not too strong :).
Companionship, and especially helping others, is a big thing for me. I have been lucky enough to be standing with many folks when they have caught their first topwater GT ... that's a great experience. Also helping others out with a few pointers and advice in a forum like this is also rewarding. GT fishing is a fairly complex and ridiculously expensive form of fishing. So any pointers to help others avoid expensive mistakes have to be a good thing.
I am also lucky enough to get a fish a lot as I live so close to some excellent (if very unpredictable) GT grounds.
As for charters, I enjoy getting out to places I would otherwise never visit and meeting new people, and all the research and prep that is involved in such ventures.
I would score your categories as follows:
Research knowledge planning.....................................................35% (includes helping others)
Working out where the fish will be and getting yourself there....15%
Raising a fish and getting it to strike...........................................30%
Fighting and landing a fish...........................................................20%
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Peter,
Good points about the charter, plus I see maths is a strong point, like me I always like things to add up to a lot more than 100%
Mark,
Nice point about helping others, when I was doing a few charters it was more fun seeing others get excited about learning and catching a fish rather than catching it yourself.
Other very important point I guess is some of us can do the DIY easily because we live in GT country ( I have seen a 20kg GT 100m from the front door of my house), whereas living a long way away brings the charter option to the fore.
So interestingly "catching" GTs is not the main game (and I thought I was a bit strange)
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Raising the fish and getting it to strike is all part of catching.
If GT fishing were just the "pump and reel" bit, I doubt very many people would partake!
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Some excellent points in this thread, there's definitely positives from both guided and self guided trips. Certainly for me though the best times of my life have been with good mates fishing remote parts of the Pilbara on self guided trips - nothing beats it for me. I think that anyone who has never done a self guided trip has really missed out. I also think that it can give you a certain 'edge' or level of experience that can be difficult to attain if you've only ever done guided trips.
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I would have to say research and anticipation would have to make up 75% of the buzz for me.
I would have spent 150+ hours reading and just as much time in tackle stores asking questions and buying gear for my first trip. I think I had spent almost $10,000 on reels, rods and tackle prior to booking the flights.
The rest would make up the final 25%.
Like Mark and a few others I am a huge tackle junkie and researching and obtaining the gear is a huge buzz for me!
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Unlike some of you lucky *** the closest GT fishing is a 6 hour flight and some hours of driving from my home so the biggest part of the fun of GT fishing ( or other fishing trips) for me consists of research and gathering the necessary tackle.
I will rely on guided trips as I normally cannot spent the time needed to be well prepared, local knowledge is king.
We did do several DIY trips to Florida over the last years and had great results and I must admit that I love it when the research pays off and we get onto the targetted species.
Next year we are doing a DIY trip to St Brandon as the guided trips are too expensive for our liking.
It is a risk we are willing to take but we expect some decent catches due to the remoteness of the destination.
Organising it is half the adventure, especially when dealing with Mauritian authorities regarding the permits needed:)
After that I will be saving up for a trip with Nomad.
Serge.
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Some excellent points in this thread, there's definitely positives from both guided and self guided trips. Certainly for me though the best times of my life have been with good mates fishing remote parts of the Pilbara on self guided trips - nothing beats it for me. I think that anyone who has never done a self guided trip has really missed out. I also think that it can give you a certain 'edge' or level of experience that can be difficult to attain if you've only ever done guided trips.
Agree 100% Jay, on a charter there is a high expectation of finding (lots of) fish and if you have never put the hard yards in yourself at some stage you might not fully appreciate how hard the guys running the charter have worked for you.
I would have to say for me 50% in the planning/getting there, seeing/raising fish/watching others land a fish 30% actually landing a fish for myself ranks fairly low but it's always nice to land 1.
I clearly need to do some more thinking about this topic.
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actually landing a fish for myself ranks fairly low but it's always nice to land 1.
I clearly need to do some more thinking about this topic.
I reckon you definitely need to do some more thinking Warwick!!! ;D
I have no idea how I would classify my GT obsession to be honest... I think the tackle and preparation certainly is an enormous part of it, and I'd be kidding myself if I said differently... like most of you, I'm pretty tackle obsessed...
The best thing for me about the prepartion, is that unlike a trip, it lasts as long as you want it to.... and its always good.... so it makes up a huge part of what I enjoy.... but I guess one could spend just as much time preparing for a trout trip, or tuna trip... but I don't, I do it for GT's, or the chance at GT's....
SOmething about the act of chasing the Pitbull of the ocean, and for me probably the most beautiful creature that swims, is what does it for me...
I wish I had a video of South African guide Guy Fergusonb, who has been guiding in Mozambique for years, and has fished pretty much every corner of the planet, twice, describing a GT hitting a surface lure.... Guy is a big, larger than life, but pretty chilled guy... but he transforms when describing a GT hit... his whole body conveys the action and the excitement.... its an amazing thing to watch this big chilled guy suddenly come alive and transform, his eyes bulging, limbs contorting... its incredible.... and thats what it is for me and GT's..... my first true GT experience was flycasting to them on the flats of the Seychelles.... watching packs of these beast swarming through water so shallow it doesn't cover their backs, mauling the bonefish I was trying to catch, almost to my feet, and watching their eyes and pec fins come out the water as they annihilate 6lb bonefish is tough to forget, or even begin to start thinking about any other fish in the same way....
No percentage breakdown for me, just plain 100% obsession for the whole package and all it entails....
The cherry on top being the places GT fishing takes you... I don't think any of us would ever say they have fished for GT's in a place that wasn't visually incredible.... and the friends you meet, and get to share these adventures and obsessions with, make it all the sweeter....
Plus my chick thinks its rad that I fish for GT's.... ;D She's never caught one, but she is becoming obsessed with catching one now after 2 years with me.... She reckons GT Fisherman rock... none of that sissy Tuna shit!!! 8)
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So based on some of these comments I think I would really enjoy a charter to somewhere amazing with a bunch of good people and learn a heap of new stuff.
Interesting that the 2 types of approach are quite different, however the overwhelming attraction is the preparation and planning.
Andre, you are a lucky bugger because I am pretty sure most of the rest of us have partners who think we are plain nuts.
Gt's are just on a different level to most other target species, a week ago I went out chasing Nannygai, a high quality bright red reef fish. We were doing Ok with fish up to 13kg, but all the time I was looking at my watch trying to figure out when I would have to explain to the other guys on the boat that I needed to go and chuck a popper at the headland 5 miles away before the run stopped.
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Hate to rub it in for all of you guys who have to travel so far to find GT's but...
GT fishing for me involves keeping 3 rods rigged and ready to go in the back of my truck at all times. Casting for an hour before work in the morning. And then maybe walk fifty meters behind my work to make a few casts on lunchbreak. Followed off by an afternoon of surfing/GT fishing until sunset.
Even though our hawaiian fishery isnt as good as many places around the world, we can still raise good amounts of big fish during the peak season. The best feeling is landing a fat GT before work in the morning. It's the only civilized way to start your morning. Better than coffee!
I suppose in my unique case the most important factor of GT fishing for me, is to tap into rhythm of the ocean and find synergy with the fishery. All the gear, and lures, and trips in the world could never equal the feeling of being connected to fish in your own backyard.
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Ok so after 24hrs of grinding gears in the ole noggin about this subject I still haven't come up with a percentage answer.
I guess my first call of 50% planning and getting there is because it forms the biggest part of the process and the anticipation/excitement sticks in my mind.
So I asked myself, what makes that anticipation and excitement so high? The answer I kept coming back to was the memory of my first GT trip, on the reef with glassed out water and schools of fusiler showering over bommies as far as we could see, casting a popper into them and seeing it get monstered by a pack of GT wolves.
I think I only landed 1 GT that day and lost 4 lures. Cue the spending spree! ::)
All of my long range trips have been planned around chasing GT's, all other species are just by catch or something to do while the GT aren't biting!
Maybe its all about that explosive hit on the surface? I've jigged up a couple of GT's before but it's not the same. Give me the same fish hitting a popper in 5m of water and its a whole different rush!
As you can see I have made it as clear as mud! ::) ;D
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It's about being in a remote place and not being reliant, thinking for yourself and overcoming obstacles - that is, if you are willing to push the boundaries.
I love doing DIY trips more than anything, the catches are so much more satisfying and there is never a dull moment. Fuel consumption and economy, food preservation, rationing and ice, navigation and weather interpretation, picking the right water at the right time and then working the best patterns, paths and lines to make the most of the situation. ON guided trips, you are usually one or the other, either an angler being waited on and presented with opportunities or a skipper/hand putting anglers in situations.
I just love doing the hard yards in to put yourself in the right place at the right time.
One day I will have my 70kg boatside, I don't know want will happen after that, but whatever it is, it will be all that more special because it will most likely be on a DIY trip.
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I quote this from one of my favourite fly fishing books which I think shares some similarities in respect to the fundamentals and WHY we like to fish for GT in the sporting way that we do....
"Fly fishing for trout is obviously about catching fish but, unlike sea fishing, the emphasis is not purely on the catching of fish, for fly fishing is a far more multi-dimensional sport. For many anglers the beauty of the surroundings and other factors are as important, if not more important, than catching a fish.
There are a number of reasons why fly fishing has such an appeal for me, and I think for other fly fisherman;
1. It is the most pleasurable method of angling, and calls for the most of the angler's brain and powers of observation.
2. There is a premium for skill.
3. The fly fisherman does not have to dig or cut his bait out of trees, keep it in a fresh and attractive conditino, pursue grasshoppers and spend much time putting them on hooks.
4. The aesthetic aspect which i mentined above..."
Fly Fishing for Trout
Author: Carl Massy
Year Published: 1976
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They grow BIG they pull HARD and you catch them in places that are worthwhile being at
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They grow BIG they pull HARD and you catch them in places that are worthwhile being at
There it is right there!!!!
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Why exotic fishing is my passion, it's easy. ;)
- Selection of new destination = 10%
- preparation of the trip, a great moment, 15 poppers are certainly enough, why I will take at least 30, it's sure, Eric le Guyader, my friend, send me your latest creation please = 10%
- Meeting with the local population = 10%
- Being on a boat with friends in paradise and with whom I can joke = 15%
- meet new anglers = 10%
- View the attacks of fish on the water surface = 20%
- Fighting fish = 20%
- Review the swimming fish which give me a lot of fun, big kisses and goodbye = 25%
Finally at home, review photos and movies of trips during the long winter evenings in France = 30%
Total = 150% :P I love the exotic fishing :D
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All fishing basically a fisherman lying to a fish...
So Luke,
Trout fishing is a quiet conversation in a timber lodge with a fire in the corner, a nice glass of Chardonnay and some well measured intelligent discussion...
GT fishing is a screaming match at the footy between 2 fanatics where neither will back down... no matter how obvious the bullshit being yelled...even after the fulltime hooter defeat is never conceded.
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All fishing basically a fisherman lying to a fish...
So Luke,
Trout fishing is a quiet conversation in a timber lodge with a fire in the corner, a nice glass of Chardonnay and some well measured intelligent discussion...
GT fishing is a screaming match at the footy between 2 fanatics where neither will back down... no matter how obvious the bullshit being yelled...even after the fulltime hooter defeat is never conceded.
Missing the point Graham. Not pointing out how hardcore it can be and how macho you are with your sea-line bull but rather drawing similarities of being in places where it's you versus a great adversary, not just muscle, but the surroundings, the strategy and thought processes and how it all comes together in what we call GT popping.
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Doing it all myself locally is satisfying, but for me it has got to be the combination of a great big beast of a fish which enjoys smashing a surface lure. Pop, pop, pop, KABOOM! :o
The fight is not much fun and I definitely do not target them because of the macho factor! ;D The end photos do look good though, and out of all the fish we catch, I must say that big GTs are really well behaved and good to handle when they are next to or inside the boat. You get that impression that they know they are king of the reef.
In fact I think I am more addicted to surface fishing with big lures, and there just happens to be good populations of GTs around here. I would like some variety in our captures now that we have landed a few good GTs, hopefully the big spanish macks oblige us this year (sacreligious comment!) 8)
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It's about being in a remote place and not being reliant, thinking for yourself and overcoming obstacles - that is, if you are willing to push the boundaries.
I love doing DIY trips more than anything, the catches are so much more satisfying and there is never a dull moment. Fuel consumption and economy, food preservation, rationing and ice, navigation and weather interpretation, picking the right water at the right time and then working the best patterns, paths and lines to make the most of the situation. ON guided trips, you are usually one or the other, either an angler being waited on and presented with opportunities or a skipper/hand putting anglers in situations.
I just love doing the hard yards in to put yourself in the right place at the right time.
One day I will have my 70kg boatside, I don't know want will happen after that, but whatever it is, it will be all that more special because it will most likely be on a DIY trip.
AMEN! :)
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Brilliant thread and thank god not everyone agrees. I fish for lots of different things in different places and they all have their time and place, be it Flathead in the local river in Aus or Peacock Bass in a lake somewhere in Asia, i'd fish in a cup of tea if i thought i had a chance of a bite!
Back to one of the original comments - the guided charters are huge learning experiences if you are a relative beginner like myself, which then allow an immense improvement in the DIY trips as your knowledge becomes broadened by fishing other places with other guides/people. Now, a guided trip with a guide who ISNT fun to be with is a real pain in the backside.....
Whilst the prep is a large part of it, that is primarily due to the scarcity of my fishing trips for GT's.
I'd also have to say that fishing with a few good friends is an enormous part of the game, and the banter, assistance, beers and general time spent doing something we all enjoy is a large part of it for me. Having said that i still do occasional trips on my own.
Lets face it GT's live in some pretty cool places, and using fishing as an excuse to go to the Maldives, New Cal, Komodo, Seychelles etc etc is a bit of a laugh isnt it?
As for the OCD aspect, well, its funny how the tackle prep and awareness varies. To me it is merely an aspect that is 100% in our control - having gear that is fit for purpose, works, is well maintained etc and can handle whatever situation is thrown at you. So it would be remiss to not have everything as much to my liking as time and money will allow. We can choose to a moderate degree of certainty the weather we fish in, we can choose to a reasonable degree the state of the tides etc. What I cannot control at all are the fish. So i guess it seems obvious to me that the research takes care of as much of the weather, tides, boat and location is is possible and the prep takes care of the one item fully in our control gear. It isnt OCD - its risk management, why spend $5-10 k on a trip, flights, charters, hotels, food etc and not have those extra $1k of lures that might make the trip an epic? That spare line, extra gloves, sunnies ..... whatever else we can all think of. A trip with zero tackle issues that cause lost fish or shortages that might be deemed to lose fish to me makes the prep seem worth it.
The trips all add to our fishing knowledge/experience, which then means you get to fish with more "accuracy" for want of a better term on any future trips, reading the water better, working lures better when in the hot seat etc etc.
The fish then go and do their best to mess it all up, which is why i go back for more. Like many styles of fishing, if it ever becomes truly easy, and is always catching, not fishing - I'd move on to something else as a focus.
I'd have to rate the landing of fish at the lower end of the percentage scale (as witnessed by my still fishing after numerous blanks for many species).
Prep 30%
Experience of spending time travelling/fishing with friends/good guides - 40%
The actual fishing itself 30%.
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Very good reply Al.
And all that detailed prep can of course be for naught. I am just back from a trip which I think I prepared for better than any other, ever. And due to freak weather it was all for nothing. What that does in my case though is just make me wants to do it all over again....
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I'm no hardcore GT fisherman but I love my fishing and am lucky enough to live somewhere (Gove, NT) where a few GT's can be found. I enjoy finding out about new techniques, rigging, gear etc and putting the stuff I like ,to good use. I'm just as happy to catch a good Queenfish as a GT, or a coral trout. I let some fish go, eat some too. I haven't come across the kind of monster GT's that show up in pictures here, but I have had a session or two where about 20 or so 10kg fish had me retreating for home and the aircon ! I should toughen up a bit ! This forum has been a great help with good info on rigging leaders that stand up to power casting. I like to fish from shore as well as boat and caught a couple of GT's off the rocks a few weeks ago, using the midknot which seems to be a good knot thus far
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Hate u Nathan, than again love everything over there, might have to make my way back with a rod one day
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The serenity?
hahahaha it's got to be all about the DIY trips, i'd love to go on a big charter one day so i can watch the techniques of more experienced anglers, but our traile rboat fishing around Mackay does it for me