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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Joshua Fifis on December 02, 2015, 01:41:03 PM
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I was looking at getting a Saragosa 10000 for a light popper/stickbait setup running 50lb on it but I'm now not sure whether to get the 8000 instead. The 8000 has a faster gear ratio of 5.6:1 compared to 4.9:1 with the 10000. I noticed that this is the same with the Stella also (8000 has HG and PG but only PG for the 10000). I found on Tackle Direct that the line retrieve is 42.2" for the 8000 and 40" for the 10000 but I have learnt that you can't always believe these stats.
So my question is it better to sacrifice the line capacity and go with the higher gear ratio 8000 or is not that much of a difference in retrieve and I'm better to get the extra capacity? Any opinions are much appreciated.
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You can by an 8000 for the higher gear ratio and just buy a spare 10000 spool as both reels share the same body and rotor, just different gearing, I've tried it and it works.
That way you get a hi-speed 10000
Food for thought.
Cheers
Ian
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The Shimano website says that the 8000 has 12kg of drag and the 10000 has 15kg. Is this true or is it just another one of Shimano's dodgy numbers? If it is true, the 12kg drag will drop even less again with a larger spool.
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The Shimano website says that the 8000 has 12kg of drag and the 10000 has 15kg. Is this true or is it just another one of Shimano's dodgy numbers? If it is true, the 12kg drag will drop even less again with a larger spool.
Hi Josh,
It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag. I've heard that you can also put a Stella spool on the Saragosa meaning 25kg drag but that's got to be pushing the internals of the gosa. Maybe too far even?
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The Shimano website says that the 8000 has 12kg of drag and the 10000 has 15kg. Is this true or is it just another one of Shimano's dodgy numbers? If it is true, the 12kg drag will drop even less again with a larger spool.
Hi Josh,
It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag. I've heard that you can also put a Stella spool on the Saragosa meaning 25kg drag but that's got to be pushing the internals of the gosa. Maybe too far even?
Hahaha you are very much right about the spool Mark. Not sure why I thought that. A bit embarrassing seeing as I'm a mechanical engineer!
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Hey mate,
Ive got a Gossa 10000 with 50 pound tuf line for lighter popping and stick baiting and it hasnt missed a beat.
The 8000 with a 10000 spool would be a solid plan too.
If I had the money I would have stellas on everything but the gossa is solid and gets the job done.
Cheers,
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Standard new saragosa spool has not enough drag for GT fishing. Best is using JM 16k or other stella 8k replacement spool (SOM, maxel, etc)
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It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag.
But how can you get more dragpower with the same drag? According to the reel schematics the drag parts in both spools are the same.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG8000SW_v1_m56577569830880584.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG10000SW_v1_m56577569830880579.pdf
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It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag.
But how can you get more dragpower with the same drag? According to the reel schematics the drag parts in both spools are the same.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG8000SW_v1_m56577569830880584.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG10000SW_v1_m56577569830880579.pdf
That's why I asked if the drag numbers are actually real or not. Shimano have a terrible history of putting bogus numbers on their website to make one reel look better than the other. If they have the same drag washer setup, then technically the smaller 8000 spool will give you more drag.
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It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag.
But how can you get more dragpower with the same drag? According to the reel schematics the drag parts in both spools are the same.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG8000SW_v1_m56577569830880584.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG10000SW_v1_m56577569830880579.pdf
I'm merely going off the claimed drag and trying to clear up a potential misunderstanding by the original author of the thread. I totally understand that if they are in fact the same drag set-up, theoretically the 8000 should have more drag due to the smaller diameter spool.
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Hey mate,
Ive got a Gossa 10000 with 50 pound tuf line for lighter popping and stick baiting and it hasnt missed a beat.
The 8000 with a 10000 spool would be a solid plan too.
If I had the money I would have stellas on everything but the gossa is solid and gets the job done.
Cheers,
How do you find the lower gear ratio of the 10000 when working lures? I really hate winding a heap and feeling like you aren't getting anywhere haha!
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It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag.
But how can you get more dragpower with the same drag? According to the reel schematics the drag parts in both spools are the same.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG8000SW_v1_m56577569830880584.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG10000SW_v1_m56577569830880579.pdf
That's why I asked if the drag numbers are actually real or not. Shimano have a terrible history of putting bogus numbers on their website to make one reel look better than the other. If they have the same drag washer setup, then technically the smaller 8000 spool will give you more drag.
I agree with you. The part numbers are the same and the max. drag is likely the same if the outside diameter of the 8000/10000 are the same. Just an exaggeration to try and differentiate the products.
Another exaggeration is as David L. points out above. The max. drag on the 10,000 is not 15kg. Most I could get with the drag screwed down on a dead lift on my 10,000 was a 11.5kg set of weights off the ground with the rod butt held about horizontal.
I don't know how it could get to the claimed 15kg?? If someone knows how please let us know.
Otherwise a reasonable reel.
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It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag.
But how can you get more dragpower with the same drag? According to the reel schematics the drag parts in both spools are the same.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG8000SW_v1_m56577569830880584.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG10000SW_v1_m56577569830880579.pdf
That's why I asked if the drag numbers are actually real or not. Shimano have a terrible history of putting bogus numbers on their website to make one reel look better than the other. If they have the same drag washer setup, then technically the smaller 8000 spool will give you more drag.
I agree with you. The part numbers are the same and the max. drag is likely the same if the outside diameter of the 8000/10000 are the same. Just an exaggeration to try and differentiate the products.
Another exaggeration is as David L. points out above. The max. drag on the 10,000 is not 15kg. Most I could get with the drag screwed down on a dead lift on my 10,000 was a 11.5kg set of weights off the ground with the rod butt held about horizontal.
I don't know how it could get to the claimed 15kg?? If someone knows how please let us know.
Otherwise a reasonable reel.
I believe manufacturers rate them as an empty spool. The more line you put on, the lower the drag number gets.
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Maybe it is measured on empty spool or half full spool. If you put only 10 meter of PE line to a spool, you will get much bigger weight number than if you measure it on full spoooled spool.
But we fish with full spool, so such measurement result is not usefull.
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Maybe it is measured on empty spool or half full spool. If you put only 10 meter of PE line to a spool, you will get much bigger weight number than if you measure it on full spoooled spool.
But we fish with full spool, so such measurement result is not usefull.
From a manufacturers point of view, they'll publish whatever gets the highest number. Even if it is completely irrelevant in the real world. I'm pretty sure SOM, JM etc rate their drags with a full spool.
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I have a little more experience with overhead game reels and I'm pretty sure they are all rated with a full spool. Lucky for me both my game reels are way more than enough drag than I need.
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If you already got stella 8k-14k, just borrow the spool, put it in new saragasa 8k or 10k. The spacer shim may need adjustment.
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If you already got stella 8k-14k, just borrow the spool, put it in new saragasa 8k or 10k. The spacer shim may need adjustment.
No I don't already have a Stella. I probably wouldn't be asking about a Saragosa if I did. Also as mentioned before, it may not be a good idea to put the drag of a Stella spool onto a Saragosa body.
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This has definitely gone off topic so to give my opinion, the best possible option would be a high speed 8k with the 10k spool but then you're starting to creep up to Twinpower pricing. Well not really but I think it's needless spending.
In my opinion the Saragosa ticks all the boxes for a cheaper big fish reel except for the gear ratios. you can look at a 10k biomaster which has a 5.6/1 ratio I believe but they don't seem to be as solidly built and cost around $100 more.
You may in fact be able to just go with the 8k Saragosa reel and spool and put some really nice pe line on it like varivas casting mp or YGK ultra castman in pe3 which rates at 48lb which you'd get well over 200m of line on the 8k spool. The only potential problem you could possibly come across with these thin but strong lines is that they can sometimes struggle with shock loads.
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New saragosa has big gear inside. The main shaft is also as thick as stella 8k. I've use new saragosa 8k with JM16k spool for gt fishing for some time without any problem.
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I have found that you can get Spheros 8000 from Japan for under $200! (including postage). The normal Spheros model in Aus only has the low gear ratio of 4.9:1 but the Japan model comes in PG (4.9:1) and HG (5.7:1). Put a Saragosa 10000 or aftermarket spool on it and you have a pretty setup for a pretty good price.
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http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/spsw.html
If you read here, you can get some information about how spheros (or new saragosa sw) parts compared to stella FA or stells SW parts
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Yeah I've read that review. That's why I was interested on getting a Spheros or Saragosa. I wasn't that keen on the Spheros due to the low gear ratio up until I found the Japan model, which has the HP version and is cheaper than here in Aus!
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Hey Josh,
Mate I dont mind it at all. Especially when working lures a bit slower however when a bit of speed is required usually my adreniline is up anyway and I couldnt tell you how many turns of the handle I do.
I am sure there are better options with their respective price tags but the gossa 10000 filled a gap in my arsenal and when I have the $$ I will probably upgrade but for now it is more than doing its job.
I got the 10000 for the extra spool capacity as its first use was for throwing surface lures at small to medium size YFT on a recent trip. I have not pimped the reel out with other spools as has been previously been mentioned the added cost almost justifies upgrading reels anyway.
If it was me mate I would use the following as my priorities for deciding on which reel to grab capability, longevity, capacity and finally feel. If you think line capacity is going to be an issue then grab the 10k if not then grab the 8k.
Happy hunting.
Cheers,
Lucas.
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It's the spool that's drag rated, not the reel. Therefore you put a 10000 spool on the 8000 body and you get the 10000s 15kg drag.
But how can you get more dragpower with the same drag? According to the reel schematics the drag parts in both spools are the same.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG8000SW_v1_m56577569830880584.pdf
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Saltwater_Spinning/14SRG10000SW_v1_m56577569830880579.pdf
That's why I asked if the drag numbers are actually real or not. Shimano have a terrible history of putting bogus numbers on their website to make one reel look better than the other. If they have the same drag washer setup, then technically the smaller 8000 spool will give you more drag.
I agree with you. The part numbers are the same and the max. drag is likely the same if the outside diameter of the 8000/10000 are the same. Just an exaggeration to try and differentiate the products.
Another exaggeration is as David L. points out above. The max. drag on the 10,000 is not 15kg. Most I could get with the drag screwed down on a dead lift on my 10,000 was a 11.5kg set of weights off the ground with the rod butt held about horizontal.
I don't know how it could get to the claimed 15kg?? If someone knows how please let us know.
Otherwise a reasonable reel.
Technically you should measure you drag with a set of scales, pulling line off the reel at a similar speed to the fish you are targeting. The faster you pull the higher the drag will measure, set in the same spot. The 11.5kg you are dead lifting could very well measure 15kg when pulled with a set of scales.
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I bought an 8000 yesterday, so I will be able to do some tests of my own once I get it spooled up.