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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Jay Burgess on March 09, 2008, 08:45:25 PM
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Ok so I've just started targeting GT's in my local area over the past month and a half and we've had a couple of good trips out. So far we haven't had any trouble locating big GT's, landing them is the problem. The ground we're fishing has heaps of big bommies scattered around shallow(ish) ground and landing any decent GT's is damn near impossible.
What strike drag should I be running? I'm currently using 80lb but am upgrading to YGK PE8 (113lb) line. Leader is 100lb twisted leader about 1.5-2m, would it be worthwhile upgrading to a 120lb twisty of a longer length?? Does anyone have any techniques which have helped them increase their chances of landing big GT's in similar ground??
I've found that even if you manage to turn it's head and pull it away from the main structure, it usually gets you on isolated bommies on the way back towards the boat. It's extremely frustrated and I'm longing to finally land that big one.
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Jay, it reads like the areas you're fishing is shallow and very rocky. If that is the case, it's going to be bloody tough landing a big fish in that type of area. To start with, I'd suggest you look at going to PE10 - 130lb instead of PE8. You can go as high as PE12 - 170lb! Start with a drag setting of about 15kg but be ready to palm the spool to increase the drag setting. I don't like starting with any more than 15kg as that just increase the risk of a break off on the strike. I'd suggest you go to 130lb or even more with your twisted leader. In really ugly areas, I'm using 170lb twisties. Also, my twisties are closer to 4m in length.
All I can suggest is load up your gear a bit more and when you do hook up try to drag it out to more open water. Once out in more open water, try and get right over the top of the fish.
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Everything Brandon said - but you need someone on at the helm as soon as you hook-up to be strategically moving the boat into open water, this usually involves pumping the drag down, holding on and powering away from the structure.
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Thanks for the responses guys.
Brandon, I'm using a SP-78H, PE10 is at the upper limit of what it's rated to, can it handle 130lb line OK? So far we've only been starting off with about 10kg of drag, which for a novice like me is still a fair bit to hang onto (I decided to go a bit easier on the drag until I increased my confidence). I will consider going up to 15kg like you recommended but what sort of impact will it have on the rod, will it handle it OK? Do you ever have strike break off's with 15kg?
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hi jay ..
i think your sp 78h should be okay to handle the 130lb .. but you will have to lower the rod when you hook it up ... and then when it stop running awy then you can pull it up ..
my sp710h rod that i used at shoalwater bay trip .. i used 120lb line on it and i had 13kg of drag on it .. but the big g,s got away so i decide to put more drag on it so i went up to about 16kg of drag and i still can,t stop the big g,s who got away and i was blown away ;D... so i hope that will help... only way is keep your rod low.. anyway i am going to get another rod for me ::) ;D
mick
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Thanks for the responses guys.
Brandon, I'm using a SP-78H, PE10 is at the upper limit of what it's rated to, can it handle 130lb line OK? So far we've only been starting off with about 10kg of drag, which for a novice like me is still a fair bit to hang onto (I decided to go a bit easier on the drag until I increased my confidence). I will consider going up to 15kg like you recommended but what sort of impact will it have on the rod, will it handle it OK? Do you ever have strike break off's with 15kg?
It's all about angles. Positioning the rod near or at a right angle to your body will give you the ability to put ridiculous pressures through the rod - that's where the butt and backbone of the rod starts working for you along with the reel. Increase that angle (i.e. > 45 degrees) and you really start to load the rod more - that's when being aware of the rods capabilities are vital, and being able to adapt to changing angles during the fight is vital (that's why I always believe in modifying your drag to suit the situation, which can be multiple times during the fight).
If you don't fish your drag with confidence - you will get your ass kicked more often than not! Fish as hard as you can - if you start getting dusted on PE10+ lines you will know you are definately encountering thoroughbred fish, not pinging your line which can be easily done with 80lb etc.
The chances of pinging 130lb on strike is low, but not impossible. This can be dictated by things such as strike angle/trajectory to how much shock your leader system is compensating for.
Modifying your drag to suit your rod angles is the key.
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Another thing, upgrading to PE10, 100lb+ lines is due to the fact that we can avoid (more often that not) pinging lines on the strike. I like to really bustle and strike at a fish during the strike of which can cause considerable shock load on the line. Another reason is to fish as hard as possible during the whole fight - hoping to reduce fight time and hopefully improve the chances of releasing a much healthier, less stressed fish.
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Pardon my stupidity...but what is a bommie? ???
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Jay - as far as the Japanese are concerned, PE10 is 130lb! They don't operate off the same scales we do.
Varivas GT in PE10 is 130lb and Varivas GT SMP in PE8 is 120lb.
Again, Luke's post sums it up. Young bloke like you will be able to manage more than 10kg easily. ;) It is a matter of technique. Do you currently use a gimbal? A good quality gimbal belt can really make a difference in that it provides a fulcrum point. Bend your knees and get one foot in front of the other. The best analogy I can give you is to think what you would be doing if you were in a tug of war. You bend you knees, you turn a little to ensure you are balanced and you brace yourself. You need to get into an atheletic stance.
Of course, there are angles that are bad for rods. At 45 degrees though, I think you would be shocked at how much load the rod can take. I tend to use the really heavy rods like 78UHL and EXH and I'm pretty brutal with them. I don't think a lot of people understand what so-called "high-sticking" is. if the fish is a long distance away, fishing with a high rod is a matter of sensibility sometimes as you want to keep it clear of structure. The rod will not break under such circumstances. I've had drags of 16-18kg as well as my palm on the spool as hard as I can hold it without any trouble whatsoever. I doubt many people can handle a drag setting high enough in such circumstances to break a heavy GT rod. On the other hand, if you have the fish next to the boat and you maintain that same angle, well, you'll be looking for a new rod soon. Most rod breakages happen next to the boat. GTs nearly always make that one last determined run next to the boat and this is when rods go. You have to be aware of and prepared for this. I tend to back the drag off a little once they are next to the boat and when the leader is grabbed, I like to open the bail arm.
Breakages on the strike generally result from the dreaded sideways strike. Generally, you will have a GT chase your popper from behind to eat it. In such circumstances, it is highly unlikely that a strike will break your line, even on 15kgs. On the other hand, a sideways strike where the fish comes from one side, hits the popper at speed and keeps going results in an enormous amount of immediate shock. If you have a long leader, that will absorb some of the shock but if the shock is excessive, something has to go and that will generally be your braid. I've seen quite a number of breakages on the strike but nearly all have been from sideway strikes.
I've seen breakages on settings as low as 10 -12kgs but you have to find the right balance in terms of your drag setting and it is always a compromise.
Thanks for the responses guys.
Brandon, I'm using a SP-78H, PE10 is at the upper limit of what it's rated to, can it handle 130lb line OK? So far we've only been starting off with about 10kg of drag, which for a novice like me is still a fair bit to hang onto (I decided to go a bit easier on the drag until I increased my confidence). I will consider going up to 15kg like you recommended but what sort of impact will it have on the rod, will it handle it OK? Do you ever have strike break off's with 15kg?
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Jay,
Don't forget that PE8/10/12 is essentially an arbitrary figure regarding the line strength. It is often misunderstood that PE8 is 80lb, PE10 is 100lb etc, but that is not the case. I run YGK Castman in PE8 on my Saltiga GT6000/Shimano GT Special and that line is rated at 113lb. If your rod is rated at PE10, you will find that is around the 130lb that Brandon is recommending, and well within its limits.
One other thing - with strong line and big drags, you will start to find that when attached to a big fish the weak link in the outfit is the bloke holding the rod!
Fraser
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Carpenter SP78H SHP specifications are as follow :
PE 6~10 , Casting weight 220 gr. max , Drag setting 6~9 kg / 12 kg max. . http://www.carpenter.ne.jp/co%20seihinsyoukai%20rod%20lgm%20sp78hshp.htm
Not sure how this equate in real fishing condition but if you guys are setting the drag at 15 kg then I suggest you should consider SP78UHL SHP or WV80XH in Carpenter range . If one were to follow the generally accepted rule of thumb , drag of PE line usage should be breaking strain divided by 4 so for PE10 = 130 lbs. , the set drag wud be slightly less than 15 kg which exceed the stated max. drag of SP78H SHP , myself I prefer to use the " old " breaking strain of PE10 = 100 lbs. thus my drag set would be 11+ kg which is within the stated specified drag set .
Mind you , I have compared Carpenter rods with other brands , generally Carpenter's specifications tend to be conservative but if you want to be safe rather than sorry , I suggest you follow the specifications .
Jon .
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Cheers guys thanks for all the advise, lot's of good info here.
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you should see if u can get ur hands on some videos of Okubo popping for GTs.... particularly legend 5. you will be surprised to see how much drag you can comfortably hold onto using the 'straight pull' or 'okubo style' as some of my mates now call it :P
i think the AO boys mentioned okubo only loses a few fish a year (truly unstoppables) ... considering how much he fishes when i first heard it i was ??? ???
Like luke mentioned, u need a boat pulling, without which you have already lost half the fight.
if any of ur mates are around perth anytime soon i might be able to help you out with some dvds.... my new cal one might even be done in time! :D :D (though i think that shows more bad technique than good :-\)
or, i might just fly up... i think im coming to exxy sometime in april...
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Okubo is not a tall guy and at a glance he is just an average Asian but if you look closely on how big his bicepts , the guy is definitely a genuine All Japan Judo champion and they way he fishes reflect the prowess he possess .
He claimed 15 kg drag set but when checked against a scale , his drag set may be in the vicinity of 18+ kg and not many can optimumly handle such a drag in actual fishing condition , certainly a 10 kg drag set nowaday is enough for me .
Boat pulling is fine as long as the line does not come out at rapid speed , personally I prefer " no line out " at the initial strike to turn the head of the fish but with my advancing age truthfully it's getting more and more difficult to handle such a drag setting .
Jon .
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How does 20kg+ of initial drag setting sound with one foot against the gunnel while boat pulls away from reef at several knots and trying to palm the spool. Still got drilled by a record fish in 50 metre depth.
Can?t win em? all! But that?s what we love about GT fishing!
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How does 20kg+ of initial drag setting sound with one foot against the gunnel while boat pulls away from reef at several knots and trying to palm the spool. Still got drilled by a record fish in 50 metre depth.
*sigh*.... i wanna go back to newcal...
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The only person I know fishing drag like that is Ed Lester,one of the Nomad guides. We've been looking forward to seeing him go swimming!
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you should see if u can get ur hands on some videos of Okubo popping for GTs.... particularly legend 5. you will be surprised to see how much drag you can comfortably hold onto using the 'straight pull' or 'okubo style' as some of my mates now call it :P
i think the AO boys mentioned okubo only loses a few fish a year (truly unstoppables) ... considering how much he fishes when i first heard it i was ??? ???
Like luke mentioned, u need a boat pulling, without which you have already lost half the fight.
if any of ur mates are around perth anytime soon i might be able to help you out with some dvds.... my new cal one might even be done in time! :D :D (though i think that shows more bad technique than good :-\)
or, i might just fly up... i think im coming to exxy sometime in april...
Cheers Kasey even if you could post them or something that would be good... vid sounds awesome.
Seriously though, you need to come up to Karratha sometime, especially once I've got a boat... there's some monsters ;D
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How do you measure your drag?
Also, talking about lines breaking on the hit - why not have a lowish-drag setting for the hit and as soon as the fish is hooked, increase your drag? Do things happen too fast to be messing with your drag?
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Hi David ,
The answer is definitely NO , even with high drag set and moving boat there were time there isn't time to stop big GT from " reefing " you which result in lost lure .
With other species such as tuna , yes you may have time due to no obstructions but with less than 300m in the spool , you want to be very calm when turning that drag knob lest you turn it too much and resulting in torn off or worse line break .
It's best to set the drag prior to your casting the lure , the level of drag set depends on the species n habitat of the fish you are targeting .
Jon .