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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Luke Wyrsta on June 30, 2007, 11:47:55 AM

Title: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on June 30, 2007, 11:47:55 AM

I've been asked by a few people lately about how to finish twisted leaders without a uni knot or weaving.

Here is the easiest and by far the most attractive way of finishing the leader (i did not develop this way of finishing the leader).

Thanks goes out to Che Carson who sent me some samples of leaders which also use this way of finishing the leader - it is most appreciated.

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish1.jpg)

1. Find something heavy or fixed so that you can attach your swivel to - this is a must or it will be too difficult to finish the leader with slack. I have used a spare hook hanger to attach my swivel to.

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish2.jpg)

2. Thread the swivel onto the end of the twisted leader (non-loop end) and attach to hook (or similar). Adjust length to suit (i.e. the amount of leader you have threaded through the swivel is roughly the same amount of bite leader you are beginning to construct).

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish3.jpg)

3.  With one strand in each hand (bite leader strand and main twisted leader strand), begin to twist/twine together the strands i.e. one strand is moved up and over to the left of the other strand, with the other strand going down and beneth -repeat with tension. If it doesn't look uniform, you haven't done it correctly.

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish4.jpg)

4. A completed twisted leader. Notice how uniform and neat the finish is. Apply nail knots, glue and heatshrink.

I hope you guys find this useful.

If you would like pictures and instructions of how to finish the leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader - don't hesitate to ask me ;)

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Andrew Poulos on June 30, 2007, 11:56:25 AM

Luke,

Where do you get your heatshrink and how do you put that on..do use the special guns for it?

The only heatshrink I have used is the larger stuff to put over barrel sinkers for spinning...

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on June 30, 2007, 11:59:19 AM

Quote from: Andrew Poulos on June 30, 2007, 11:56:25 AM

Luke,

Where do you get your heatshrink and how do you put that on..do use the special guns for it?

The only heatshrink I have used is the larger stuff to put over barrel sinkers for spinning...

Andrew,

I get mine from Jaycar at Taren Point.

Cheers,
Luke

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Greg Burt on June 30, 2007, 12:09:05 PM

Andrew, any electrical store [all sizes] or Supa Cheap/BCF stores [a few sizes]

Luke, any chance of some pics on your nail knot / twisty finish, I'm 75% there, 'I think'.
  Greg

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Che Carson on June 30, 2007, 04:17:54 PM

Luke,

The force is obviously strong in you. I am glad to see my samples were of some use to you. Not a bad replication at all. You may one day be a Jedi as well. ;D

Che

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on June 30, 2007, 04:30:22 PM

Quote from: Che Carson on June 30, 2007, 04:17:54 PM

Luke,

The force is obviously strong in you. I am glad to see my samples were of some use to you. Not a bad replication at all. You may one day be a Jedi as well. ;D

Che

Your samples really set the benchmark Che :) Thanks for sharing them :D

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Greg Burt on June 30, 2007, 06:02:38 PM

Luke, regarding the nail knot finish, is it like these pics, you also say knots [plural], is it one knot after another or one on each strand? I'm interested in the finished product but can't picture it. Have you got any pics without the heat shrink? :-\
 Thanks mate, sorry about the hassle! We Padawans need all the help we can get. ::) ;D
 

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on June 30, 2007, 06:27:13 PM

Quote from: Greg Burt on June 30, 2007, 06:02:38 PM

Luke, regarding the nail knot finish, is it like these pics, you also say knots [plural], is it one knot after another or one on each strand? I'm interested in the finished product but can't picture it. Have you got any pics without the heat shrink? :-\
 Thanks mate, sorry about the hassle! We Padawans need all the help we can get. ::) ;D
 

Hi Greg,

Yes, it is like in the pictures. The knot is formed over all four strands - pull as tight as possible with pliers. It has to bite - you really can't pull too tight. I like to have the knots relatively close together spanning about 1.5 inches.

I'll post some pictures of what it looks like without heatshrink tomorrow or during the week.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Andrew Poulos on June 30, 2007, 06:41:21 PM

Whats the best way to heat heatshrink?

When I put it over barrel sinkers it doesnt matter as the heat wont damage the sinker, but the way I do it wont work on leaders.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Jay Burgess on July 01, 2007, 12:37:58 AM

Just make sure you don't get the heat gun too close to the leader Andrew.

Thanks for the pics luke, looks like a great way to finish the leader :)

Just one question, how do you stop the bite leader twists from unraveling while you're completing the nail knot/s?

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Greg Burt on July 01, 2007, 01:02:22 PM

Luke, I think I may be barking up the wrong tree completely after reading something yourself and Brandon and put in other posts, ["I'd suggest you actually finish it with some braid using a nail knot with the braid. You can then add a touch of super glue to the braid to finish it off"], my thinking was you were making the nail knot with the strands of twisted leader not with braid over the leader. :-\
 Please straighten me out, forgive me Che I am only an Youngling ::) ;)

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on July 02, 2007, 02:20:16 PM

Quote from: Andrew Poulos on June 30, 2007, 06:41:21 PM

Whats the best way to heat heatshrink?

When I put it over barrel sinkers it doesnt matter as the heat wont damage the sinker, but the way I do it wont work on leaders.

Andrew,

I'm not sure if it is the best way, but i use a high powered hair dryer.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on July 02, 2007, 02:23:05 PM

Quote from: Jay Burgess on July 01, 2007, 12:37:58 AM

Just make sure you don't get the heat gun too close to the leader Andrew.

Thanks for the pics luke, looks like a great way to finish the leader :)

Just one question, how do you stop the bite leader twists from unraveling while you're completing the nail knot/s?

Sometimes i use quick knot (double overhand etc) or a large and heavy alligator clip just to secure.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on July 02, 2007, 02:25:58 PM

Quote from: Greg Burt on July 01, 2007, 01:02:22 PM

Luke, I think I may be barking up the wrong tree completely after reading something yourself and Brandon and put in other posts, ["I'd suggest you actually finish it with some braid using a nail knot with the braid. You can then add a touch of super glue to the braid to finish it off"], my thinking was you were making the nail knot with the strands of twisted leader not with braid over the leader. :-\
 Please straighten me out, forgive me Che I am only an Youngling ::) ;)

Hi Greg,

Use some 80/100lb braid not the twisted leader itself ;)

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: GIANTTREVALLY on March 04, 2008, 09:36:19 AM

Quote from: Luke Wyrsta on June 30, 2007, 11:47:55 AM

I've been asked by a few people lately about how to finish twisted leaders without a uni knot or weaving.

Here is the easiest and by far the most attractive way of finishing the leader (i did not develop this way of finishing the leader).

Thanks goes out to Che Carson who sent me some samples of leaders which also use this way of finishing the leader - it is most appreciated.

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish1.jpg)

1. Find something heavy or fixed so that you can attach your swivel to - this is a must or it will be too difficult to finish the leader with slack. I have used a spare hook hanger to attach my swivel to.

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish2.jpg)

2. Thread the swivel onto the end of the twisted leader (non-loop end) and attach to hook (or similar). Adjust length to suit (i.e. the amount of leader you have threaded through the swivel is roughly the same amount of bite leader you are beginning to construct).

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish3.jpg)

3.  With one strand in each hand (bite leader strand and main twisted leader strand), begin to twist/twine together the strands i.e. one strand is moved up and over to the left of the other strand, with the other strand going down and beneth -repeat with tension. If it doesn't look uniform, you haven't done it correctly.

(http://www.gtpopping.com/images/twistedleader/twistedleaderfinish4.jpg)

4. A completed twisted leader. Notice how uniform and neat the finish is. Apply nail knots, glue and heatshrink.

I hope you guys find this useful.

If you would like pictures and instructions of how to finish the leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader - don't hesitate to ask me ;)

on the bottow picture where the bite leader is It says to apply nail not. can someone post how to do that connection.  Luke would you be able to email me pictures and instruction on how to finish the leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader. thanks.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Brandon Khoo on March 04, 2008, 01:29:15 PM

you only need to do a search........

http://www.animatedknots.com/nailknot/index.php

http://www.killroys.com/knots/nail.htm

http://www.fishnet.com.au/library/knotsrigs/nail_knot_to_fly_line.html

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: scouser on March 04, 2008, 08:32:44 PM

Hi Luke
can you send me pictures and instructions of how to finish the leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader and the twisted leader method please cheers Stewart

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on March 04, 2008, 10:32:26 PM

To all those requesting assistance, i will be sending emails within the next 24 hours. Sorry for the delay - just flat out!

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: GIANTTREVALLY on March 05, 2008, 04:37:51 AM

Quote from: Luke Wyrsta on March 04, 2008, 10:32:26 PM

To all those requesting assistance, i will be sending emails within the next 24 hours. Sorry for the delay - just flat out!

I would like pictures and instructions of how to finish the leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader also. I cant seem to do the picture the last instuction after forming the bite leader where you apply the nail not, glue and heat shrink.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Greg Burt on March 05, 2008, 08:47:00 AM

I also originally misunderstood the instructions.
 The nail knot is not actually done with part of the leader, it is made by bringing in a 3rd party, braid, which is used to form the nail knot around the doubled twisted leader [all 4 strands] which is then glued and heat shrinked.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Peter Morris on March 07, 2008, 10:09:11 PM

Thanks for the photos Luke and Greg....Certainly answered some questions for me too. 8)

Pete

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: GIANTTREVALLY on March 08, 2008, 05:12:13 AM

Quote from: Greg Burt on March 05, 2008, 08:47:00 AM

I also originally misunderstood the instructions.
 The nail knot is not actually done with part of the leader, it is made by bringing in a 3rd party, braid, which is used to form the nail knot around the doubled twisted leader [all 4 strands] which is then glued and heat shrinked.

can someone post pictures of the nail knot being done with part of the leader and the 3rd party braid. Im going on a trip soon and I cant finish my twisted leaders.

Luke, brandon or greg can you email me pictures and instruction on also how to make twisted leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader and the twisted leader method.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on March 08, 2008, 11:38:16 AM

Quote from: marnie fernandez on March 08, 2008, 05:12:13 AM

Quote from: Greg Burt on March 05, 2008, 08:47:00 AM

I also originally misunderstood the instructions.
 The nail knot is not actually done with part of the leader, it is made by bringing in a 3rd party, braid, which is used to form the nail knot around the doubled twisted leader [all 4 strands] which is then glued and heat shrinked.

can someone post pictures of the nail knot being done with part of the leader and the 3rd party braid. Im going on a trip soon and I cant finish my twisted leaders.

Luke, brandon or greg can you email me pictures and instruction on also how to make twisted leader by braiding/weaving or by applying a single strand shock leader and the twisted leader method.

I would forget weaving (it isn't as good as the other methods mentioned here) - but if you want to know, you simply open up a twist and then thread a small portion through then continue to do the same with the next twist.

Single Strand - simply terminate your twisted leader with a knot (so it doesn't unravel), then with a single strand, form opposing uni-to-uni knots - pull tight.

Or, slide two crimps onto both materials (twisty and single strand) and crimp tight.

For twisted finish, check page one of this thread.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Travis Heaps on March 18, 2008, 06:11:45 PM

This method of finishing off - its basically making a bite leader right?  Do you just apply this method to both ends of the twisted leader if you want a bite leader?

Also the glue - can you just use any superglue?  Does it effect the line at all?  Do i need a special glue?

The nail knot - is it necessary to have the length of braid running underneath all the wraps?  Why not just half hitch it in place to start the wrapping and then tightly wrap and finish with half hitches and glue?  Surely its the glue that is doing most of the holding here rather than the nail knot?  If you're trying to get the braid to cinch into the twisted leader its almost impossible to get that last length back under all the wraps?

edit: just looked more closely at the nail knot and see how what I said was wrong.  If you only do 6-7 wraps its shouldnt be so hard to get it to cinch in after you pass the strand back through.  My early attempts I was wrapping for about an inch instead of 6-7 turns. I'll let the question stand though to see if its a legitimate alternative?? ;D

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Travis Heaps on March 19, 2008, 02:31:14 PM

Well - having a conversation with myself :)

Did some nail knots last night and no just wrapping and glueing will not substitute.  You can really get the knot to bite in - I used a length of pen tube (that holds the ink)to wrap the loops around and then slide the end back through.  I then tied each end of the length of braid to an 8/0 jighead hook eyelet and used those to pull the nail knot tight.  Can really get the sucker packed down.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: warren clark on March 30, 2008, 09:18:19 AM

    Thanks for the pictures.
          I had just logged on to ask if black heat shrink will do the job as it was the only colour I could find to buy.  I wanted to check that the black  wasn't going to spook the fish. But by the pics it's looks OK.
          Because I was worried that my 3 nail knots and heat shrink may not have been  exactly correct and didn't want my  leader to let go on the water  I have done a couple of leaders with a nail knot onto the swivel using the 2 strand twisted leader and then into the bite leader.
        Do you think this will effect the way the twisted leaders  will work.
     My thoughts where the best of both world.
            No1- fininshing off as if there was to be no bit leader.
            No2-  adding in the bite leader for extra strength .
 
                                      Thanks Again Warren

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Luke Wyrsta on March 30, 2008, 02:35:53 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about spooking fish. If fishing with poppers, your leader is going to be out of the water most of the time. If fishing stickbaits, I steer clear of a complete twisted leader, instead, attaching a 1 metre setion of single strand (FC or Nylon) connected via crimps or knots. Having said that, I know anglers using straight twisties to stickbaits and no seeing any reduction in strikes.

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Angus Hulme on April 06, 2008, 10:22:27 AM

Hi all, would it provide a little more strength to the twisted leader (and bite leader section) if you attached the swivel with a flemish eye, before finishing with the nail knot further along? This is the area I mean......

Cheers
Angus

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Peter Morris on October 20, 2008, 01:45:06 PM

PM instead.

Pete

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Brandon Khoo on October 20, 2008, 06:53:42 PM

I've tried that - the loop becomes a bit too big with the flemish eye

Quote from: Angus Hulme on April 06, 2008, 10:22:27 AM

Hi all, would it provide a little more strength to the twisted leader (and bite leader section) if you attached the swivel with a flemish eye, before finishing with the nail knot further along? This is the area I mean......

Cheers
Angus

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Peter Morris on October 20, 2008, 07:59:58 PM

Brandon,

What are your thoughts on the nail knots...??

Re: Strength etc....

I look at them and think how can they cope with the pressure of a big GT's...?

Im worried about knot failure on attempting it.. ???

Pete

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Greg Burt on October 20, 2008, 09:33:48 PM

My understanding is the nail knot and glue are to stop the 'twisted' bite leader from unravelling.
If you are in the shop this week I will drop off a finished leader Luke sent me last year, the leader in hand explains a lot.
Most popper blasters these days seem to use a mono/FC bite leader of some sort, at the end of a twisty or single leader.
  Bun

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Brandon Khoo on October 21, 2008, 12:56:32 AM

Peter - the nail knot is superglued so it's pretty damn strong! I've never had one slip before but I do understand your concern.

Quote from: Peter Morris on October 20, 2008, 07:59:58 PM

Brandon,

What are your thoughts on the nail knots...??

Re: Strength etc....

I look at them and think how can they cope with the pressure of a big GT's...?

Im worried about knot failure on attempting it.. ???

Pete

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Chris Young on October 21, 2008, 09:50:29 PM

If you don't feel safe with a nail knot you could always whip finish them with a fly tying bobbin and kevlar thread or a PR bobbin and braid (10-20lb) then glue it all with UV knot sealer. I have been using this method on twisted leaders for 6-7 years and have not had a failure yet (here comes the hoodoo)I started using this system on impoundment barra leaders because I couldn't be stuffed tying nailknots

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Ray Stevens on October 21, 2008, 09:52:40 PM

Great Thread Guys....Che knows his stuff alright, was reading about his fishing exploits for GTs around Exmouth in WA a few years back...

This is the first time I have ever seen his method of rigging given in such close up detail though....

Cheers

Title: Re: Finishing Twisted Leaders
Post by: Robert Palcak on October 24, 2008, 01:47:32 AM

This and the Twisty Leader thread is an awesome!
I attempted my first ever twisty last night following these instructions closely... the first 3 were a bit rough(ie, not enough twists), but by the 4th though to the 15th... they came up a treat.
The only thing I'm doing that's slightly different is the finishing...
I'm not a fan of using heat shrink on mono, so I just do 2 nail knots about 1cm appart, then coat that section with Dac Tac(rubberised superglue), as it leaves a neat, strong coating.
It really is a quick, easy and fantastic looking leader to make with the quality instructions in this forum.
Cheers To All