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Extreme Jigging: Dogtooth Tuna, Yellowtail Kingfish (Hiramasa), Amberjack, Samson Fish => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Christoffer Hansen on April 17, 2012, 06:54:06 PM
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Hey guys,
I am after a heavier rod to fish along side my smith amj s54h/8000sw combo. I'm after something that can fish pe6 to the full n maybe pe8 if needed. Most of my fishing is in depths between 50-70m but there is often a lot of current so jigs up to 400g may be needed but mostly 250-350g. The smith fishes everything lighter. Will be pairing with a 20000sw, is this needed or should I jus get another 8000pg with aftermarket spool?
Thanks for your suggestions.
Cheers chris
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What size Dogtooths are we talking about Christoffer? I am going to assume not real monster sizes as you are talking about using a 54H. So this advice is based on that! If 50 kg+ Doggies are on the menu then different story.
An obvious one would be a different AMJ..... 52EX. Over the years I have owned and used so many rods in this category, but I keep coming back to the AMJ 52EX. It would suit those specs Christoffer. It is good with 400 gram jigs (and a touch heavier is OK if need be), and can handle as light as 200. Absolutely sweet is 300-350. I usually fish mine with a SW20000 and PE5 or PE6. 8000 PG or 10000 PG with an aftermarket spool would be fine also.
In a different price range would be MC Works Southern Blue 556 MS. A slightly longer rod with a sensitive tip but so much grunt down low. Also an absolute pleasure to use. 400 grams is the stated maximum jig size and I agree with that. Even at 450 is does not feel right. I have not used lighter than 250 gram jigs with this rod but I suspect you could go lighter. Again 300-350 would be the absolute sweet spot and I normally fish it with a SW20000 with PE5 or PE6. The tip action on this rods definitely imparts a lot onto the jigs - could be important on a quiet day.
Those would be my two favourites in that medium-heavy category which seems to be the one you are looking at.
Neither would be my pick to stop a really big Doggie though, so a lot depends on what size fish you are targeting. I had one just last week (was fishing for AJs and did not expect it) which hit so fast and so hard it took me 10 seconds to get a significantly heavier jig rod (Synit Venom 550 FT) up off the gunnel. Sadly the ling pinged just when I thought I had it under control.
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Hey mark,
Thanks for the advice I had a look at the sb556ms which certainly looks like the specs I'm after. I'll be fishin the reefs out from the whitsundays and the boats we fish in have the range to fish the same reefs nomad hits. Not sure what size the fish are but I'm guessing most will be in the sub 50s. Would any of the sevenseas oriental dogtooths suit my needs. I know there's one rated pe4-6 is this underrated or accurate of it's capabilities. I'd like to buy the best rod in the class straight up instead of upgrading later.
Cheers chris
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Christoffer
My goto rod for doggies is my Saltiga 56XHFS. I own a 54H and a 52EX in the AMJ range (and a few others) and love them both.
The benefit of the Saltiga is that it will happily work jigs down to 120 - 140 grams in size (despite being rated up to 500 grams) due to the softer tip and a two stage blank. At the same time, I am happy to fish PE8 over the rod to the absolute limit - it is a beast!
I took this rod on a doggie trip to Vanuatu last month where it knocked over a range of doggies and sharks to 100 kg - in very quick time. The 52 EX is a lighter rod (in weight), but I dont think has as wide a jig range as the Salty - Its not a great rod for jigs under 250 grams - which you often find yourself using for doggies.
The Salty is a bit of a wide range, one rod does all (as much as one rod can) and can be rellied upon when the chips are really down. I fish mine with a Saltiga 6500 Expedition and run PE8 and 10 over the rod. I've 'anchored' a 32 foot boat with the outfit on more than one occassion - it really takes some breaking off!
Its comfortable to use with an 8000/10000 sw if thats your thing too!
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Hey mark,
Thanks for the advice I had a look at the sb556ms which certainly looks like the specs I'm after. I'll be fishin the reefs out from the whitsundays and the boats we fish in have the range to fish the same reefs nomad hits. Not sure what size the fish are but I'm guessing most will be in the sub 50s. Would any of the sevenseas oriental dogtooths suit my needs. I know there's one rated pe4-6 is this underrated or accurate of it's capabilities. I'd like to buy the best rod in the class straight up instead of upgrading later.
Cheers chris
I can't really comment on any Sevenseas rod as I have never owned one.
If you are looking to go straight to the top of the class of jigging rods, then I guess I am not the only one who would put MC Works right at the very top. The Southern Blue 556 MS is the right spec for you and I can speak personally for its all round excellence. Just be aware though that it is just a touch longer than you might expect. Not an issue for me, but it is something to be aware of.
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I'm the village idiot when it comes to jigging so maybe my comments come from my complete ignorance in the sport but to me, I feel like I am missing something here.
I mean, if I look at a combination of PE6 (or PE8 for that matter), 50-70m depth and let's not be too ambitious and say a 50kg doggie, that all equals recipe for tears in about five seconds? I have been dusted more times that I can count in the past using PE8 and even PE10 in water that depth where I was simply a spectator. The doggie did whatever it wanted to and I was simply there for the ride hoping the damn thing wouldn't cut me off.
I wasn't completely stupid though and worked out that if you found a really deep spot or ideally, something around a sea mount which dropped off really deep, you has more chance on a fish and could actually fish PE6. Unfortunately, the stupid things died and I stopped fishing for them as a matter of principle.
Personally, I don't really subscribe to the issue around stopping power in a rod when you're fishing for
doggies of any decent size. A 100kg doggie is an unbelievable beast and I want to emphasise that. They are an absolute monster of a creature and I am astounded that we can talk about just knocking them over in quick time. Trying to put the brakes excessively on a decent fish just makes them panic even more ensuring a harder fight (assuming you stay connected) and a dead fish. When you land a really big one, its 80% luck - and its dead.
I can't apologise for being so negative about dead fish because this forum promotes catch and release. Noone who goes fishing for doggies should be under any illusion that the majority of the fish they catch are going to swim away.
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Don't they 'Catch & Release' Doggies on Nomad Charters all the time???
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Brandon, I think I have said to you before I have given up deliberately fishing for Dogtooths for that very reason.
There are big Doggies right on my doorstep (from my house I can almost see the spot which held the world record spearfished Doggie until recently) but I give them a wide berth these days as my experience is much like yours - they either dust you, or arrive at the boat in a near dead state.
I mentioned got smashed by one just last week but I was really fishing for Amberjacks and lesser stuff at the time, for the benefit of a visitor. Massive fish which took me down to the gunnel and it was a hell of a job getting the rod back.
Ben, I would imagine that most Doggies Nomad catch and release are not real monsters? I don't know that for sure but I think Brandon and I would not be only ones with the bad experience of big doggies fighting until they are near-dead. With smaller fish and those caught on the surface, survival rates seem much higher.
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I'm not disputing your or Brandon's comments, but if Nomad do it, thought they might be doing something 'special', as they are also very PRO C&R
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Off topic , would this work for CnR on Doggy ?
Fish release weight - Barotrauma (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6oNolIq8g#ws)
Jon .
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Jon, instinctively, I think those gadgets are good for fish which obviously suffer barotrauma but come in quite easily. Examples might be groupers, snappers etc. With big Doggies though I think it is barotrauma plus they literally fight themselves to death.
That's just my instinctive reaction. I could be very wrong of course.
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Mark, I think you're right. With doggies, I suspect that the lactic acid build-up is the ultimate killer
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Hi Guy's,
The Carpenter OH-55XH-S should do the job even if using the jig weights Christoffer has mentioned probably starting at the 350 g range.
Hopefully they'll come up alright to be released to swim for another day those power house beautiful beasts.
Hi Christoffer - For your consideration as the rod to acquire for your use. Feel free to view selling post for details.
Regards :)
Leo
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Uh Leo, Chris is looking for a PE6-8 rod for jigs from 250g to 400g.
The OH55XH-S is a PE8-10 rod for jigs up to 1kg. I really don't think this rod is ideal for what Chris is looking for!
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With all due respect, an OH 55XH is the last rod Chriss needs! An absolutely brutal rod designed for very heavy jigs and deep, deep water work.
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Just to confirm from my previous reply.......that was sharks up to 100kg.......the doggies we ran into were much smaller!
As suggested Chris, by many others, any doggie over about 20 kg in that depth is going to kick your a$#e on pe6, and will still put a fair dint in your jig collection on pe8 or pe10!
I'm not going to enter the debate on the merits of jigging for doggies or not, but if that is what you want to do, my advice is 'gun for elephant' .......and hope you don't find it!
I'd highly recommend a rod with a two stage blank though - to allow you to work the smaller jigs when conditions allow. It's more likely to see some use outside of doggie jigging too!
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Just giving options Brandon........
Specs for the rod is PE6 - PE10 by memory. As Christoffer mentioned he'll what to try and acquire a rod straight up instead of upgrading later, this could be for his consideration amongst others, just options for use for any deeper water use as well later.
Hi Mark, yes it seems like a brutal rod and maybe what Peter advises a huge doggie would still make a mess with jig collection even at that 100 mtrs depth :o.
Regards
Leo
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Stopping any fish in record time is a matter of how much hurt you can put on them. Assuming you have the right gear that takes muscle. How much muscle have you got? You're talking about a brawl here cos a dogtooth is a brawler.
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The oh 55xhs is a broomstick with grips n guides on it. I'm after a rod in the 250-400 max range I don't think itll impart much action on these jigs. Best rod in it's class is what I'm after n sounds like mc works is it. What reel would go better a 20000sw or 8000pg with jm16000 spool n jm longer handle?
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The OH55 is only a bream rod compared to a Zenaq Monster Buster for iron man!
The Southern Blue is very light (in weight). I suggest the smaller reel might result in a better all-round balance
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;D @ Zenaq Monster Buster.
Chris, I use my SB 556 with either reel set up. I don't spend anything like as much time jigging as I used to, and for that reason I probably stick a 20000 on it more often than not. If I was jigging a lot though, I would probably think an 8000/10000 reel size to be the better pairing.
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Would second the mc works choise too. SB556 and SB516 are both beautiful rods. Have matched my SB516 with the SW8000pg and its fine but it feels more at home with the SW20000 on it. Its my go too "big gun" setup. You will be stoked with these rods!
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Chriso,
PE6 BlueRose mate. Has done the job for me for years, caught plenty of big doggies, light and easy to use, awesome action on jigs up to 500gm. I have a spare one, buy the reel and try it. Go the SW20000 as you already have a smaller outfit for a bit of fun. I have a Smith Freemantle if you are real keen to try it. Just my 2cents.
Creffo.
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My choice for 250-400g jig would be Synit Kaha 400 or the Seriola series, very comfortable to jig with n still got heap of power to stop monster doggie.
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Hi guys,
I tried Shimano BlueRose (max PE8) class. It is really light and easy to handle, but it is week and too soft, by my opinion. I experienced many mishookings using this rod and assumed that the main reason was extreme softness of the rod tip. In addition to that my friend broke 2 these rods in Northern Mariana in 2008 lifting doggy less than 25kg and a shark of about the same size. After that I forgot about this model.
I was looking for stronger rod for dogtooth but still light one. I stopped on Smith Nirai, but I did not like it after all. It is not as soft as Blue Rose, but it does not have power in the blank. When a fish (even not big one) is hooked, Nirai just bends down fron the grip and does not want to get up the fish. The lifting power is very poor for its weight and specifications. I got many decent fishes gone to bottom with Nirai.
After that I came to thinking that I need longer rod (58-59ft) for doggies and very proven one. I tried SevenSeas and PD.
Sevenseas is a really good staff for doggies (especially Northern Mariana Dogtooth 100), but they are bulky, very expensive and so hard on your body! After hook up seconds seem to be eternity....
I also tried Patriot Design rods and liked them most of all. Kevlar series is very powerfull and much more forgiving for an angler than SevenSeas. Carbon series is cheaper and lighter. I tried several models and I think that in case you are looking for PE6 rod up to 400g you should pay attention to Grand Imperial Ultra 59 (or Diamond) or Carbon VX400/57 model. Both have lifting power and strength enough for doggies about 50kg+. If you are looking for a rod which won't need to upgrade, PD can be really your choice.
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Classic :)
"After hook up seconds seem to be eternity...."
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Mogi Special Maori Spirits??
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Interesting reply Dimitri.
It is not very often that:
1. you hear too many bad things about a Smith Nirai
2. you hear too many good things about Patriot Design jigging rods
You have managed both there!! It is good to get some well reasoned opinions that are contrary to the norm :)
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Hi dimitri,
Thanks for the feedback, I was wondering whether there was anyone using the patriots as I haven't read anything about them.
They are very flash rods I had a look at a few in fishhead, they are a bit heavier than the rod I'm chasin though for jigging. I'll definitely
Be adding one of their popping rods to the arsenal in the future but! I read somewhere the fire vortex was very user friendly.
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Hi Mark,
I just said what I feel about above said rods - nothing personal.
I think every rod model has its adventages and disadvantages for this or that user, this or that fishing situation, which is the case of Smith rods and PD rods. Yes, I know that many people like Smith Nirai. I also liked it when I took it and bent it. But I was dissapointed using it.
As for Patriot Design, this maker seems to be obsessed with power idea and some models (like Vortex) can be handled only by sumo fighters, but the line up of their jigging rods is wide and versatile, and there is really good staff there.
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Hi Christoffer,
I wish to have a look at the guy who said fire vortex is user friendly! What a strong man it must be!
I do not know what models you looked at in the fishhead, but I strongly recommend you to pay attention to VX400/57 for the purpose you asked. It feels light when jigging, but it has PD power. And it costs about a half of kevlar series.
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Yep Dimitri, as I said it is good to hear well-reasoned opinions that are a bit different. Good on you.
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I use a Zenaq Fokeeto FS53-20 which works medium weight lures quite nice, but I would not go much over 400 gr.
mid price rod with impressive lifting power.
a 4+ meter manta ray inhaled my jig on our last trip ... we could stop it, but not for long ... hehe
that little rod did handle what the stella 18.000 could not ...
so no problem at all to handle large doggies or any other beast in the deep blue.
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Just been back from Northern Mariana where I could test Patriot Design VX400/57 to the full. Here are the photos of the catch.
The rod is very light to jig by hand. It is powerfull and very user friendly (I did not tired so much landing 78kg dogtooth). And what I liked the most of all is that you can control and regulate pressure to the fish very adequately and easily even during dogtooth powerfull runs with this rod. I also have PD Ultimate 59, but for Ultimate you have just to hold it and wait till it makes its job, stop and get the fish tired. With VX400/57 I could effectively regulate my pressure on the fish even during its first and most powerful run - it is very cool feeling, I must say.... I did not acheive such emotions with the rods I used before...
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Dmitrii - that's an exceptional fish, thanks for posting.
If you can land that fish without tiring too much then you must be a very fit angler!
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I am very ordinary. "Never enough time for gym" type... I felt really sorry about that last year, when I had an experience of fighting 38kg dogtooth hooked by side with Ripple Fisher Final Spirit GT 79H. That was really back breaking experience... much harder than this time!
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Very nice jigged fish Dmitri - well done.
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What size Dogtooths are we talking about Christoffer? I am going to assume not real monster sizes as you are talking about using a 54H. So this advice is based on that! If 50 kg+ Doggies are on the menu then different story.
An obvious one would be a different AMJ..... 52EX. Over the years I have owned and used so many rods in this category, but I keep coming back to the AMJ 52EX. It would suit those specs Christoffer. It is good with 400 gram jigs (and a touch heavier is OK if need be), and can handle as light as 200. Absolutely sweet is 300-350. I usually fish mine with a SW20000 and PE5 or PE6. 8000 PG or 10000 PG with an aftermarket spool would be fine also.
In a different price range would be MC Works Southern Blue 556 MS. A slightly longer rod with a sensitive tip but so much grunt down low. Also an absolute pleasure to use. 400 grams is the stated maximum jig size and I agree with that. Even at 450 is does not feel right. I have not used lighter than 250 gram jigs with this rod but I suspect you could go lighter. Again 300-350 would be the absolute sweet spot and I normally fish it with a SW20000 with PE5 or PE6. The tip action on this rods definitely imparts a lot onto the jigs - could be important on a quiet day.
Those would be my two favourites in that medium-heavy category which seems to be the one you are looking at.
Neither would be my pick to stop a really big Doggie though, so a lot depends on what size fish you are targeting. I had one just last week (was fishing for AJs and did not expect it) which hit so fast and so hard it took me 10 seconds to get a significantly heavier jig rod (Synit Venom 550 FT) up off the gunnel. Sadly the ling pinged just when I thought I had it under control.
gday Mark. just wondering how that Synit Venom 550's been treating you? good for turning their heads? thanks! Corey. Solomon Islands
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Dimitri - that is the fish of a lifetime. congrats !!!
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I've had a Patriot Design Ultra52, it was a really brutal rod. It rate PE4-6 but I felt like it can handle PE8 easily. It is significantly heavier than my Smith 52EX though.
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Just been back from Northern Mariana where I could test Patriot Design VX400/57 to the full. Here are the photos of the catch.
The rod is very light to jig by hand. It is powerfull and very user friendly (I did not tired so much landing 78kg dogtooth). And what I liked the most of all is that you can control and regulate pressure to the fish very adequately and easily even during dogtooth powerfull runs with this rod. I also have PD Ultimate 59, but for Ultimate you have just to hold it and wait till it makes its job, stop and get the fish tired. With VX400/57 I could effectively regulate my pressure on the fish even during its first and most powerful run - it is very cool feeling, I must say.... I did not acheive such emotions with the rods I used before...
Hi Dmitrii,
I'm very interested in your description of the Patriot Design jig rods, particularly... I could effectively regulate my pressure on the fish even during its first and most powerful run
I take it that is by changing the angle of the rod & where it loads up?
I'm currently looking into the Kevlar PD Grand Adventure (2 piece) 572/50lb for jigging 20-40kg fish and interested in it's taper and performance, say compared to the Carbon models VX300/56 which also look suitable.
Thanks for any tips,
Cheers David
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Hi David,
Sorry for late answer.
Yes, you understood my words correctly. VX series is easier vs kevlar PD rods to regulate the pressure by making the rod higher or lower, but you should be carefull with your drag setting and not allow high sticking in case of high drag setting, because VX series is not as strong as kevlar series.
PM also sent.