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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Kevin Hulse on December 07, 2010, 09:31:54 PM
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Hi all,
I'm looking at putting a reel on my GT Special with a limited budget. Dont particularly want to spend over about $400. So far the reels I've had a look at are the Shimano Saragosa 18000, Diawa Saltist 6500 and had a quick look at the Okuma Salina II but the sales person steered me away from them. I have read a bit on various forums about the Saragosa vs Saltist and found some info about the Saragosa on here too and was hoping that there might be a few more people out there who could share a bit of knowledge and their opinions on these reels.
I'm probably going to start off with 80lb braid and see how I go. Will be fishing out of Yepoon mostly. Dont think I'll make it as far north as Shoalwater but it could be a possibility (yes the 80lb will be replaced if that happens) if that helps at all.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Cheers
Kev
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I have a Saragosa 18000 Kevin but have only used it personally as a back-up jigging reel. No issues with the reel - it is hardy and good value. Have landed reasonable sized GTs and Dogtooth with it. Friends have used it for casting with some success. Hard to find fault with this reel for the money.
If the first generation Salinas are anything to go by, stay right away from those. Several Indonesian friends bought those as a very cheap jigging reel and had all sorts of problems (all witnessed first hand, not hearsay) - warped bail arms (they do not like the sun), massive corrosion (they do not like the water), frazzled drag (they do not like fish)......
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hey Kev
Ive got a diawa saltist 6500. grate value for money. caught a bunch of fish on it, had some big runs to, drag is still good, still going strong. not as smooth in the gearbox though. but for $300 i say its a good thing.
Karl.
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Hi Kevin,
Whatever reel you use, putting it through regular GT use - it's going to need maintenance and replacement parts at some point.
I second the Saragosa, and the aftersales support you will receive from Shimano if you need it serviced.
I've caught GT to 30kg on the Saragosa, did not miss a beat. Mind you, I have not used it for an extended period of time - but would not expect anything more than any other product in that price bracket.
L
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If the first generation Salinas are anything to go by, stay right away from those. Several Indonesian friends bought those as a very cheap jigging reel and had all sorts of problems (all witnessed first hand, not hearsay) - warped bail arms (they do not like the sun), massive corrosion (they do not like the water), frazzled drag (they do not like fish)......
LMAO No wonder there aren't many good things said about them. Its pretty suprising to hear that seeing as they offer a lifetime warrantey isn't it? You would think that they woud want their products to be fairly reliable.
I have to admit that going by reports its pretty neck and neck between the Saltist and the Saragosa but in saying that I have always been partial to Shimano though. I understand that with the heavy nature of this type of fishing that maintenance is an important issue and that you also get what you pay for. Luke I've never had to deal with shimano before (maybe that is saying somethin in itself) but know that other manufacturers can be less than ideal.
Thanks for the feed back guys
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Not sure about Daiwa's aftersales support in Australia (?) but where I live it is non-existent (products do not even have a warranty). That's another big plus for the Saragosa over the Saltist for me at least.
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I'm probably going to start off with 80lb braid and see how I go. Will be fishing out of Yepoon mostly. Dont think I'll make it as far north as Shoalwater but it could be a possibility (yes the 80lb will be replaced if that happens) if that helps at all.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Cheers
Kev
no gt's around yeppoon, i wouldnt bother... :-X ;D
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So I guess there is no point asking for any tips then hey Travis? LOL ;)
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I would defiantly steer clear of the daiwa saltist 6500 i have one and wouldn't recommend it basically a sealine bull but with more drag washes and a different colour, handle is defiantly odd as theres a gap between it and the main body also when retrieving at high speed the reel seems to jerk a metal lure all over the place
I don't no about the Saragosa seems it might last better and shimano customer service is way ahead of the others
as for okuma i wont even mention Lol
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ive got the saragosa 18k, yet to be tested on a fish. Its a spheros with a stella handle and an extra bearing on the drive gear. there is a bit of play in the main shaft i.e. spool up and down , which bothers me but doesnt seem to affect performance. the line lay on retrieving poppers is not what i would call great but its acceptable. worse on stickbaits.
The saltist has a doorknob style handle attachment , with the square drive and screw in cap, which makes for a bit of slop, and there are also the gaps to let in sand, salt and water which have already been mentioned. I have read about an o-ring being installed between the handle an the body to fix this.
the 'gosa drag has a bit of a startup spike, doesnt worry me with PE6 because im running under 10kgs drag. Carbontex would probably be a good investment.
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Don't forget the Paladin gearing Damian, this is what really sets the Saragosa apart from the Spheros, OH' and the extra drag washers.
My three year old one is still cruisin nicely on medium jigging and poppering, the only change I made was upgrade to Carbontex drag washers :D
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As Greg says, it is wrong to characterise a Saragosa as Spheros with an extra bearing and a different handle (not a Stella handle btw - the attachment is different). Another difference is a much stronger looking bail arm and roller.
It is by no means a perfect popping (nor jigging) reel, but then for the price you should not expect it to be.
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Travis, i sent you a PM
Nathan
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there is a bit of play in the main shaft i.e. spool up and down , which bothers me but doesnt seem to affect performance. the line lay on retrieving poppers is not what i would call great but its acceptable. worse on stickbaits.
It's not play, there is supposed to be a small amount of movement in the shaft, vertical wise that is.
What line lay issue are you having?
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Luke,
the play in the shafy im talking about is 3-4mm, which is double the play in similar size/price reels ive looked at.
As for the line lay, I will take a picture and post it. Basically the line is wavy, and lumpy on the spool after a day testing it with a 60gram popper, pe6 jigman.
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Then I suggest you take it back to where you bought it from or get someone to look at it. I reckon there's a washer/shim missing from under the bearing/bushing that support the worm or the cap to the pawl that goes into the worm is loose. Otherwise they will have about 2mm of play.
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Hon-su
thanks for the reply i just measured the play and it is in fact 2mm, if thats normal im now happy
cheers
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NO!! 2m is far to much. Normal is max 1mm. The main gear needs to be re-shimmed. Otherwise gear wear will be accelerated.
As for the line lay.....that would be its worm drive.....something is playing up, either the worm itself or the pawl damaged. Get someone to check it out.
IF possible, can you please post a pic up of the spool with the wavy line lay?
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Kevin,
I'm still trying to break 2 Daiwa sealine bull 6000's so I can get a "real" reel. But to date they are working fine. 1 is up to about 15 GT's. I doubt they would last a week on a charter, but for incidental use they have survived. I think a lot of the mid range reels will do OK, such as saragosa and saltist. I also have a pflueger that has also done OK on GT's (can't remember the size)
Like Travis said "No GT's around Yeppoon" but a GT rig also works really well for mackerel, tuna and other pelagics.
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I'm waiting for someone to say it..........
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Thanks for all your posts guys, had a decent look at the Saragosa on the weekend and did notice the play in the spool. Not sure how it would affect the performance?
Just for the record fishing out of Yeppoon = using the Roslyn Bay Marina to launch the boat. Not looking to to break any records just looking to do a few trips a year and have a bit of fun.
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A certain amount of play is there in every Saragosa Kevin and it will not effect the performance - it is part of the engineering design.
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Kevin,
Send me a pm and I'll see if I can get you started around yeppoon
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I'm waiting for someone to say it..........
Ok...I will bite... ;D
The Daiwa Sealine Bulls are IMO a real waste of money.
My mate killed his fishing for snapper....(and I witnessed this happen within a month).....
GT's would laugh at the reel.
Get the Saragosa over this reel any day..!
Pete
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I called shimano and they reckon 2mm is within the manufacturer tolerance.
Im going to have a crack at a few albacore, samsons and maybe a kingiein January, so in february ill either be sending it in for a service or for a warranty repair.
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I'm waiting for someone to say it..........
Ok...I will bite... ;D
The Daiwa Sealine Bulls are IMO a real waste of money.
My mate killed his fishing for snapper....(and I witnessed this happen within a month).....
GT's would laugh at the reel.
Give the Saragosa over this reel any day..!
Pete
Graham isnt talking through his hat here, he uses the sealine bulls to catch GTs, i know this as a fact. Not everyone that wants to chase gts is looking for 50kg models in the wilds of where ever or has access to stellas. For those looking to have a go at popping for 15-25kg models on a budget the price difference between a sealine bull and saragosa 14k might be a fair amount of $. If it works for Graham, it will work for others so in a thread on budget gt reels i think it has a place.
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Some Truth to that Travis,
However I would never recommend to someone 'A Daiwa Sealine Bull'....over something like a 'Shimano Spheros or Saragosa'.....
Why..?......Because when it comes to warranty issues and service Shimano leave Daiwa for Dead..!!!...
Pete
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Hi Guys,
Like I said I'm waiting for the daiwas to give up.......still waiting. I 've been down to the tackle store many times checking out stellas, saltigas and twin powers. I have even stopped rinsing the bulls in fresh water after trips. Hopefully it won't be long now until I can buy another reel.
Line capacity is good, retrieve speed is good, drag is OK provided you don't want to pull your arms off (needed a couple of tune ups)
If you can't afford a sports car, doesn't mean you have to ride a bike!
Photo of typical Bull victim attached.
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Love it Graham :).
A friend of mine has similar attitude to his Spheros - several sizeable Dogtooths have failed to break it for him ;) .
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one excellent choice (if available) is the Ryobi Safari 5000 (made in japan model. those made in china are crap).
its a first rate reel but never became really popular, probably due to somewhat limited line capacity and lack of ARB (works on dogs).
i have used 2 extensively and really cant fault them.
they are great value, especially 2nd hand, when they can be purchased for <400sin including spare spool.
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Right,
i opened a bottle of wine and stripped the saragosa to look into this main shaft play.
The plastic spacer/cap was present at the bottom of the worm gear thanks Hon-SU and I checked the diagram to ensure all parts were present and counted for, so I am confident that its all ok. Greased it up and put it back together, checked the play - still 2mm. Bugger
Had a think about it and decided to give it another go. Pulled out the work gear and the main shaft, and noticed that the plate which retains both shafts from falling out the bottom of their carrier was bent!! only a tiny bit, but i straightened/flattened it out, put it back in and hey presto play is back down to 1mm in the main shaft! hooray!
sorry i didnt take pics, I was a man on a mission. i did take before and after line lay photos which ive attached
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What about okuma vsystem or the cedros spinning reels?