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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Kevin Li on January 16, 2009, 02:17:30 AM
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Hi,
How much of realistic drag can this rod be fished with?
Is 130g popper too light for casting with this rod?
Kev.
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hi kevin .
the tokora can be fish with 13kg max of drag .
- but i have fished with 15kg of drag no problem .
130g popper is just fine . as this is built up to 250g .
- as i have fished with 110g popper no problem .
the tokora is the strongest rod in the smith rod .
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Steve,
This one is for you mate.
But 130g popper is very light, try throwing 190g poppers to load the rod up to it's potential & get the most out of it.
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TOKARA is rated at 13kg at 45 deg, can handle more at less an angle by rating.
They have been tested way past the rating but I am not at liberty to advise what the breaking angle and drag was, but you could sustain a serious injury when and if it happened.
Brock is on the right track the same with any rod you need to match the lure weight to to rod or you will be using alot of extra energy casting the lure or the opposite that the rod could be to light to cast the lure.
This is why you find most anglers here have numerous rods all for specific applications. You should find much information in previous threads on this subject and what rods people are using for specific lure weights.
I would be using lures from around 200g to 300g with TOKARA get a lighter rod for your smaller lures you will find that you can cast them much further and you can work the lure properly.
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i am considering the tokara or komodo dragon.
i'd assume both are built to uncompromising standards. but there is quite a price diff between the 2 models (at least in Singapore), w the KD costing more.
anyone w any insights on this?
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TOKARA is rated at 13kg at 45 deg, can handle more at less an angle by rating.
They have been tested way past the rating but I am not at liberty to advise what the breaking angle and drag was, but you could sustain a serious injury when and if it happened.
Brock is on the right track the same with any rod you need to match the lure weight to to rod or you will be using alot of extra energy casting the lure or the opposite that the rod could be to light to cast the lure.
This is why you find most anglers here have numerous rods all for specific applications. You should find much information in previous threads on this subject and what rods people are using for specific lure weights.
I would be using lures from around 200g to 300g with TOKARA get a lighter rod for your smaller lures you will find that you can cast them much further and you can work the lure properly.
200g popper is petty heavy . i know it will cast a long way .
i was using 130g popper with two st-76 5/0 treble which it will come down to about 150g . so i find the casting just fine to me .
that is why i though he is talking about the 130g popper with out hook . ;D
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i am considering the tokara or komodo dragon.
i'd assume both are built to uncompromising standards. but there is quite a price diff between the 2 models (at least in Singapore), w the KD costing more.
anyone w any insights on this?
According to what i heard and read. The KD is more forgiving on the angler as it is slightly more parabolic thou still with plenty of butt power. The tokara is a stiffer rod and it has all the power to stop a big GT provided the angler is willing take that kind of punishment! ;D
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Hi,
Thanks for the feedback. I got a wrc 80p and I could throw the 80g better than a 130g popper ( williamson+ St66). However it will throw the 150 stickbait better than the williamson. I'm looking for a rod for the big stuff.
Wongkz: Where can I find a Tokara in Singapore?
I'm desperately looking for a SP78 UHL as well in Sg as I have a cousin travelling next week. Any shops have them there?
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angler's outfitter stock the tokara, the weaved KD, and the cheaper (sticker version) KD.
as for carpenter, they seem to be out-of-stock most of the time.
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if you're looking for a UHL, you'll be looking for a while!! :D
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angler's outfitter stock the tokara, the weaved KD, and the cheaper (sticker version) KD.
as for carpenter, they seem to be out-of-stock most of the time.
Thank you. Do you kow any shops which have the PD Fire vortex in Sg?
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Hong Guan Pro Fishing Pte Ltd
275 Beach Road, #01-01
Singapore 199549
Tel: 6296 9676
E-mail: [email protected]
or this link http://www.pelagicanglers.net/distributors.html (http://www.pelagicanglers.net/distributors.html) Kenny has helped me before with Patriot gear.
I was looking at the Patriot rods in a Jakarta shop to day, great looking rods, all the casting rods i looked at have small bottom guide eyes on them!!!, they look like conventional overhead guides, another new concept from Matsutani San, the jig rods i looked at have the usual larger bottom guides.
Real Boutique gear.
PS, as stated above good luck with the SP78UHL, I don't think you will find one in shops for a while.
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Thanks very much Andy.
I've seen part of the rod on a picture and they look like Fuji low riders, also called the new concept guides. The new Surfcasting rods are using this concept now and the reports I've read about them are not satisfactory. Line tend to snake through these rings but in surfcasting we use longer leaders to 100lb sometimes, most common being 70-80lb. How would that behave on a shorter rod with 200lb leader?!? The good thing is that the New SW series spool does a favour to Low riders as it reduces the peak line out thrust from the spool making the spiral shallower. I've just handle the New Twipoer 8000FE, it look very very smooth and well built and comes with a spare spool and the spool features the new arc spool like on the Stella SW series.
The fire vortex price looks affordable. I'll look into the matter and take a decision soon either to go for a Tokara, A gipang 77 xxxH or a Fire vortex.
Any of you have tried the fire vortex? I've heard they are as strong (if not stronger than) as the UHL.
Cheers,
Kevin.
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Interesting points Kevin.
I was looking at the 08 stellas today JDM and the 'US'/Euro version, the 10k versions in particular, trying to figure out the 5 gram weight difference. The spools look different.
It looks like the JDM spool on this size is narrower in diameter and deeper in spool arbor, the US version looks wider and more squat in the spool!!! these were just visual observations.
I like to use a longer leader at the moment so this would be an issue perhaps on the Patriot, but I have enough rods so i won't be testing this model out soon that I know of.
By the way if you're not urgent on your rod, I have a near new Tokara (1 - 20kg GT only) that I will be bringing to Aussie in early May among other sale items, not using anymore...FYI
Regards
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Hi,
Unfortunately, I'm not in Australia. To be Honest the Fire vortex has caught me and I'll look into it.
As far as new SW is concerned what did surprised me was the size of the 18000as I owned the previous 10000FA version. Having read a U.S forum, there are mixed views saying that the U.S version and the Japanese version are different. The JDM has a serial number on the reel foot and when I saw the 20000SW JDM in a local shop it came in 2 box. There was like an external carton box which wrapped the original box. The reel handle had the impression of being shorter on the 20000sw than on the 18000sw.
I've tried casting a 10000FA and the new 18000SW on a field using 125-150g lead and 80lb Sunline PE and I haven't seen much distance gained from the New ARC spool. I did cast them on a proper 13.6ft surfcasting rod with a full OTG and a Pendulum cast just to see how much difference there was. I don't think with an overhead cast you would see a significant distance gained but bare in mind that I used 80lb braid. I've just checked on my Zziplex that the butt ring is a taped fuji 30 striper guide and the rod has taped rings rung for multiplier use, there were no issues of line snaking with the ARC spool. Just to have an idea my smith WRC 80p has a 40 size fuji striper guide.
On the other hand, I've a C3000 with the new ARC spool loaded it with 0.13mm braid and tried a 2500FB with the same line. There was a difference with the arc spool when using thin line, I tried it with both a 6ft and an 8ft with a single handed pendulum cast. It was interesting to see that on thinner line the arc spool did a difference. The propulsion of the line sounded different on the ARC spool.
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Hi Kevin
The Fire Vortex is a very strong rod.
Gordon Low (a member on here) has one , he is a big man and said he was lifting Duncans heels off the ground when loading it (with no gimbal).
I have a Diamond 77 which is one of the lightest in GT range rated PE5-8. I recon it is every bit of PE8. I am running SMP PE8 on it and so far have no issues with the lowrider guides.
The prices on that link seem very good, prices here have become scary since exchange rates changed!!.
Cheers
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Thanks for the feedback Chris. How do you find the grip? I like long grip for casting.
Actually how long is the grip from the butt cap to the reelseat?
What is the size of the stripper guide?
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I have it in a rack next to a KD, the rear grips are identical, the fore grip on the PD is 50mm longer.
The stripper guide is size 20 high foot lowrider, it actually holds the line farther away from the blank than the 40 on the KD!
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Gordon is a big softie & Duncan is a light weight. Sorry guys had to say it.
But i do believe the rod is a bit of a telephone pole.
PS: Gordon i can't wait to see you use it @ Bugatti.I will have the video camera ready.
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Brock.......I wonder what will break first, the fish ::), the line PE12 ??? or the cage on the dory ;D
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The PD Black Diamond onwards is already pretty scary.
I fish with the PD Diamond 77 as well and no issue with the low rider guides either. Waiting to test the Platinum 84 next month. :P
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Kenny,
Have you tried the 'Extreme 80'??
How long is the handle, I would like to compare it to my old 7 seas GT80Ti.
Thanks
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Chris
I said to Aaron when he told me that Gordon bought that rod, the cage will be the first thing to give way, especially when i am laughing at him. I have a few things to say to Gordon as he is fighting the fish that will make him go harder.
Order"
Cage
Rod
Gordon
Myself rolling around in tears of laughter!!!! PRICELESS
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Andy
I don't have the Extreme 80. I can check the handle lenghth from my pal who have this model.
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Kevin - are you sure you want a Fire Vortex?! :o
It'll be suitable if you're pressing about 150kgs in the gym.
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If I can't get an UHL, I'll go with PD as I can get it from SG.
What model in the PD range has the same power level as a UHL?
As for the gym, I train 3 times a week and for now squatting 90kg.
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maybe Aaron can comment on this seeing he has a UHL and is familiar with the range of PDs
The only person I know who has a Fire Vortex now is Gordon Low - maybe Aaron can tell us what weight he can squat (I'm not being facetious, by the way)
If I can't get an UHL, I'll go with PD as I can get it from SG.
What model in the PD range has the same power level as a UHL?
As for the gym, I train 3 times a week and for now squatting 90kg.
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If I can't get an UHL, I'll go with PD as I can get it from SG.
What model in the PD range has the same power level as a UHL?
As for the gym, I train 3 times a week and for now squatting 90kg.
hi there
oh kevin i have been looking for the UHL of course i love the carpenter but i can,t get one cos they are hard to get so i have gave it up and end up with the PD black diamond 77
( P.S i am 85kg )
i talked to Aaron as i was told that the PD black diamond 77 is alike the UHL maybe a bit stronger not sure but Aaron own them both so he can tell the different (Aaron should be about 95kg)
i would stay away from the fire vortex too much power on it i not think i can hold on :D :D
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Hi, thanks for the feedback. I'm 77kg and still will be pushing more on the squat as I've been training for 7 months now. I've to be realistic that pushing twice my body weight on the press would be nearly impossible!
The fighting would definitely be a problem as you guys are heavier than I am and are happy with the black diamond 77. What is stunning is that there's also a black mafia which is suppose to be AAA rating! I think what ever I choose I will be ok with the casting.
BTW, are the rod weight light compared to other brands?
How does it split up in two? Handle+ tip?
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BTW, are the rod weight light compared to other brands?
How does it split up in two? Handle+ tip?
Kevin, these are the heavy weights when compared to other Japanese brands,
Eg. Fire vortex 540gm, black diamond 77 500gm. over 100gm on some of the other high-end Japanese producers.
They part at the handle like the others
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Hi, thanks for the feedback. I'm 77kg and still will be pushing more on the squat as I've been training for 7 months now. I've to be realistic that pushing twice my body weight on the press would be nearly impossible!
The fighting would definitely be a problem as you guys are heavier than I am and are happy with the black diamond 77. What is stunning is that there's also a black mafia which is suppose to be AAA rating! I think what ever I choose I will be ok with the casting.
BTW, are the rod weight light compared to other brands?
How does it split up in two? Handle+ tip?
Kevin .
the black mafia are to handle the pe12 that is why it got the AAA rating
most ppl fish up to pe10 that is why i took the black diamond which it rate at pe10 .
but i can fish with pe12 on the black diamond . all i had to do is lower the rod ;)
Maybe you should try the SP78EXH ???
hope,s this help .
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Hi Kevin,
I do own both the Carpenter SP78UHL and the PD Black Diamond.
They both have the same lifting capacity as each other (the Black Diamond is marginally more powerful) and I run PE 10 GT Avani on both.
As far as a realistic HEAVY popping rod is concerned, I chose the Black Diamond due to its ability to sling a 200gm popper 90m and work it well.
It also isn't a spine popping experience to hang on to as well, where the Fire Vortex is!!
Basically, I am 5'10 and weigh 93kg.
If you are under 6'4 and 100kg forget the Fire Vortex!!!!!
Also the Butt section on the 80 Extreme, Diamond, Black Diamond, Black Mafia & Fire Vortex is the same in rear & front grip length.
Cheers
Aaron AKA Donkey ;D
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WSell said Donkey.
PS: are you really only 93kg? could have fooles me :D :D :D :D :D
Sorry Buddy
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Yeah Brock.........I am 93 kg.
I am FAR from being fit enough for an extended GT only trip at present!
Pilates + Swimming got me down to 82 kg when I got my PB in 2007...
I am far from Gordon's strength...he squats 140, dead lifts 200 and can shove 620kg with his legs....THATS FIRE VORTEX FIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;D
Aaron.
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620kgs - that's just bloody ridiculous.
That's equivalent to something like twelve Lara Bingles ;D
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620kgs - that's just bloody ridiculous.
That's equivalent to something like twelve Lara Bingles ;D
Brandon,
That was a one rep wonder (result of a pissing match with my trainer ::) )
I normally don't legpress near that when I'm training properly.
Kevin,
All the jokes about training aside, it really just comes down to weight/leverage. All the power in the world won't help if you get pulled off your feet. Trying to put hurt on a big fish through a long stiff lever like the FV simply gets harder the lighter you are. Even the UHL is a burly rod (I've seen Aaron getting carted along the gunnels running 22kg of drag on a serious fish on his ) and it's nowhere near the Fire Vortex.
Unless you're trying to work massive poppers (where a stiff rod helps) something that folds away to the butt like a Smith Komodo Dragon is going to give you the best leverage.
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Thanks for all the feedback.
I use to be 85kg but has loss weight since. I just tried 100kg full squat using a bar and weight. Will need a couple of weeks to get use to it.
Btw, is the black diamond, firevortex and blackmafia fast or through action?
May be I've been influenced by surfcasting but I like lightning fast recovery in a rod and which bites back if you have put the power too early when casting. A super stiff rod for casting which does deliver the good with good timing and speed.
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!2 Lara Bingles, I'll like to see that, Brandons Heaven :D
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I'd like to see just 2 of Lara's Bingles :P :P ;)
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Bloody hell, if I had that, you guys wouldn't see me on this site too often ;D
!2 Lara Bingles, I'll like to see that, Brandons Heaven :D
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Kevin, I think the posts from Aaron and Gordon pretty much sum up the Fire Vortex.
All I can say to you is you are best off looking for gear that will help you, not the fish. The strongest GT rod made may sound great but in practice, that rod is going to be extremely difficult to fish with and on a big GT, you are going to wonder whether you've hooked the fish or the fish has hooked you. I even told Gordon he was crazy to go for this rod but if anyone can fish it.....
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Gordon,
Best of luck mate, i know you can do it. it's not that hard mate, just have plenty of red bulls & think of the girl in the flannel skirt ;D