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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Andrew Poulos on March 28, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
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Just wondering, when you are using assist cord, do prefer to use a double strand and an overhand style knot to connect the hook, or do you prefer to use a single strand of assist cord ? This is to attach a single hook to stickbaits and poppers.
Any pro/cons to both styles?
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I'm certainly no expert on this but I prefer double strand myself with an overhand style knot which I also superglue. That said, no reason why you can't use a single strand. I have some assist cord which is 1000lb breaking strain. No reason to double one so heavy up, I think.
Good thread, Andrew. I'm very interested to see what other people who use assist cord on poppers or stickbaits do.
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Ive got some black magic rigging dacron to try out as well...has anyone tried this ? Else I will get some varivas later on to try.
Brandon, do you just glue up the knot a bit - I was thinking of putting some heat shrink over it - would that be of any help to secure the knot or just make things bulkier.
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I'd go with superglue over heat shrink. I can't imagine that would do that much
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As Brandon mentioned super glue would be worth a shot although i have not had a problem without it. If you like the presentation of your knots then use heat shrink as it does look nice.
Cheers
Rob
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We tried Owner Assists on the rear of some poppers (tan cord, pink hook), mainly Skipjacks. I lost interest after a "tuna" leaped clear of the water and engulfed my Skipjack. Although it was during a Mac Tuna frenzy it was obviously not a tuna, rather a very large Spaniard, my assist was sliced in half in half a second flat, I hardly felt any pressure (at the time, and still currently a Spaniard is high on my "TOO CATCH" list...yet I missed it). The point i'm trying to make is that using mylar, kevlar or ziotspecialsuperstrongcordelar a toothy critter will ablitterate you, no matter what. Yet unlike a wire trace on a trolled lure, or floated pillie, a wire assist will have no negative effect on your target species if using as a wire assist on a rapidly retrieved lure (ie popper).
Double strand/overhand etc = why bother. Use wire assists if popping for GT's/ They catch the unexpected toothy critters (which generally are regarded as genuine fun captures anyway - Wahoo, Spaniards etc). The only exception is sharks...and when was the last shark on popper capture recoreded...no doubt Brandon has a story :D ;) but the fact is it's that it'd so uncommon it's not worth worrying about.
Screw the assist cord, zero benefits, bulk losses. Use wire or splits and swivels. Just my 2 cents.
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i would loop it and super glue the knot to minimise slippage. of course not with a 1000lb breaking strain thou.....
with a 1000lb kevlar, a single strand will be sufficient....
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We tried Owner Assists on the rear of some poppers (tan cord, pink hook), mainly Skipjacks. I lost interest after a "tuna" leaped clear of the water and engulfed my Skipjack. Although it was during a Mac Tuna frenzy it was obviously not a tuna, rather a very large Spaniard, my assist was sliced in half in half a second flat, I hardly felt any pressure (at the time, and still currently a Spaniard is high on my "TOO CATCH" list...yet I missed it). The point i'm trying to make is that using mylar, kevlar or ziotspecialsuperstrongcordelar a toothy critter will ablitterate you, no matter what. Yet unlike a wire trace on a trolled lure, or floated pillie, a wire assist will have no negative effect on your target species if using as a wire assist on a rapidly retrieved lure (ie popper).
Double strand/overhand etc = why bother. Use wire assists if popping for GT's/ They catch the unexpected toothy critters (which generally are regarded as genuine fun captures anyway - Wahoo, Spaniards etc). The only exception is sharks...and when was the last shark on popper capture recoreded...no doubt Brandon has a story :D ;) but the fact is it's that it'd so uncommon it's not worth worrying about.
Screw the assist cord, zero benefits, bulk losses. Use wire or splits and swivels. Just my 2 cents.
Travis,
The forum is a place for everybody to express their comments and experience but perhaps it would be good if you could tone down the intensity of your response and be a little more open to other views.
I almost fell off my seat from the aggression of that response!
Luke
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Im not too worried about toothy critters around my way. The only teeth are either bonnies, couta, or long ton, and they arent in the same class as spaniards or wahoo.
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Con- you lose toothy fish.
Pro- It helps keep the hook integrity at its best since the cord will twist under torque..
For long lures and place where there are big GT's, I see merit in using at least a tail assist for GT's.
The use of epoxy-resin-core heat shrink over the over-hand knot works a treat at stopping any water from rusting the hook eye.....the epoxy seals it all for good.
Aaron.
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Travis,
The forum is a place for everybody to express their comments and experience but perhaps it would be good if you could tone down the intensity of your response and be a little more open to other views.
I almost fell off my seat from the aggression of that response!
Luke
No aggression intended at all Luke, sorry if anyone else took my tone out of context.
Have been open minded in the past, tried corded assists and it cost me a big fish. Don't see any benefits to cord relative to wire assists so why take the chance?
Getting back more specifically to the question - I think heat shrink is purely for cosmetics and wouldn't have any noticeable strengthening benefits on the rig. The superglue on the actual knot is a good idea to help prevent slippage i'd say.
Using double strand over single strand - the only benefit I see to that is for back up should one of the legs be abraded through (which brings me back to wire :P ;)). Would cost more if using expensive assist cord and I don't know if it would strengthen it at all...would it? Would two strands of 300lb assist cord tied by a single knot to the same tow point have a greater breaking strain than 300lb?
Can't help on the actual knot side of things as we used the pre-rigged Owner assists. Another idea though - am probably being a bit daft here but what about using crimps on assist cord? Anyone tried it?
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Or you could just save a heap of time, mucking around and anxiety and simply put some trebles on it and go fishing! :D
sorry, just being a smart@rse, back in my box now.
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only because you asked for it........
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/P4220047_1.jpg)
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only because you asked for it........
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/berniek/P4220047_1.jpg)
I knew it :D :D
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They're actually not that uncommon a by-catch. Unfortunately, you nearly always lose your lure because if they don't bite you off, the leaders gets rubbed off against their bodies.
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Brandon...I must have been lucky mate!, last sharky I got went 7-8ft, got it to the boat in quick time and then gave it a bit of slack and it shook the hook out?? gotta love it when a plan comes together cause it wasn't coming in the boat ;)
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Abit off topic but we had a number of sharks follow the poppers yesterday, no striks but id say give it more time and they would have had a go! only had shark hook ups after hooking fish jigging.
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Yep... as Brandon said, alot more common than you think. Here's one from last weekend.
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5729/img0656edited.jpg)
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that's a good photo!
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I tried assists and didn't like them. I always felt that they were the weak link. If you aren't confident in your rig, youy never fish to 100%.
I do however like the idea of assists. I have seen plenty of fish lost through hooks bending, which is no doubt due to the leverage fish are able to exert onto the bend of the hook whilst fighting. I get round this now by rigging an owner #10 split ring to the lure, swivel off that, followed by a further split ring to the hook. There is lots of free movement at the hook, and a fish would have next to zero leverage to bend or force the hook out.
Saves on rigging wire assists, there are no weak link knots or crimps, and still all the benefits of wire.
Cheers,
SIMMO
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I tried assists and didn't like them. I always felt that they were the weak link. If you aren't confident in your rig, youy never fish to 100%.
I do however like the idea of assists. I have seen plenty of fish lost through hooks bending, which is no doubt due to the leverage fish are able to exert onto the bend of the hook whilst fighting. I get round this now by rigging an owner #10 split ring to the lure, swivel off that, followed by a further split ring to the hook. There is lots of free movement at the hook, and a fish would have next to zero leverage to bend or force the hook out.
Saves on rigging wire assists, there are no weak link knots or crimps, and still all the benefits of wire.
Cheers,
SIMMO
Despite the inherent problem of hooking a shark - yes I use this and don't have any issues.
However, if you are breaking assists and they aren't from teeth abrasion - then you are probably using pre-made rigs out of a packet?
Make your own from the appropriate class dyneema and i'm sure you will think differently.
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I think the big Shout assists are good notwithstanding Tak having out almost straightened out and the solid ring being deformed.
i've never seen so many hooks damaged during a trip!!
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Has anyone tried the fisherman siden assist hooks? I have some of the no.13 which has a very wide gape.
Was thinking of taking some to Bugatti/marion early next month, comments for or against appreciated as I'd like to properly manage my tackle kit for the trip.
Thanks in advance.
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The fisherman Siden's are an awsome looking hook, I have used them for Jigging big NZ Bass, who's upper jaw can be as thick as your wrist. I havn't seen a hook with a wider gape.