GTPopping.com - Giant Trevally, GTPopping, Topwater & GT Fly-Fishing Resource
Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Neale Bird on July 25, 2009, 01:31:19 PM
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Look familiar?
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the top lures look exactly like hammerheads.
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Hammerheads and SeaFrogs... totally original designs ;D
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sexy bro, i saw some fisherman copies in my local tackle store the other week too, interested to hear how they hold up Birdie
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Waiting on some craftbaitish looking ones too... look the goods
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I hope they are better than some other dodgy copies that are available. The printing on them looks similar to the KOMACHI rubbish that was around a while ago. I bought three of those and two sank without hooks!!
Once bitten, twice shy when it comes to imitations in my opinion.
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truly original ::)
is it really so hard to come up with something a little different?!
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truly original ::)
is it really so hard to come up with something a little different?!
I agree.
I refuse to buy copies, lack of imagination, lack of ethics and trying to make a quick buck off the coat tails of someone else's hard work. >:(
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they're just such unashamed copies! :D I have no idea what the price is like but many of these copies actually sell for more than Herus do. I can't even begin to understand why people would pay that.
Btw, has anyone been out to Otto's at Drummoyne and seen their popper range?! Otto's carries some decent stuff but there is no shame in this world - they're carry copies of River2Sea Dumbbells except that they're the biggest Dumbbells in the world. The popper is so big and the cup so huge that I'm not sure that you could pop those things with a Patriot Fire Vortex. I think they're beyond the casting weight of just about any popping rod made. Couple that with what looks like dreadfully poor wiring and cheap components and you have a surefire recipe for success ::)
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Yeah that is where I saw the fisherman copies Brandon, at Ottos....those huge jumbo R2Sea copies are like 375gms and they are stupid sized, the balance would be hell to cast
insane
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I've seen those huge useless looking things - they're hilarious aren't they! I think all they are good for would be a novelty trophy on a trip or something like that.
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Does anyone reckon they'd have even tested them before putting them up for sale?!
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apparently some testing ;D
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Not the weezels, Neale - we're talking about the mega-dumbbell replica
And that one you just posted is their copy of the Craftbait GT2. What an innovative company - copies of the Hammerhead, Sea Frog and Craftbait
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theyre companies name is weezel after all
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apparently some testing ;D
Hello Neal, that is actually a photo I took and i don't remember you asking me if you could put it up
don't mind so much but in future would be nice if you asked the owner of the photo if you were going to place it up else where
you could probably have taken this photo as well if you were to steal a few mate
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/pilbaraBrad/IMG_2341.jpg)
now just let clear a few things up. i know it is an ethical question being asked here, I'm not really sure where i stand yet to be honest. I bought these poppers, curios no doubt like a lot of other GT fisherman out there as to weather these lures would work. I love my craftbait, the GT2 is my favourite lure but i am going to be honest when i say i cant afford to buy them, i have a few but at more than a hundred dollars a pop they are pretty bloody expensive.
I tried the weezel polecat (GT2 rip off) and they work just as well as a GT2, the finish is really good and they cost me less than half the price, so ethical or not i am going to use them. They make the "poorer" fisherman able to try a proven shaped lure.
So stand on your moral high horse if you will, there are plenty of other "reputable" companies out there putting their name on the same shaped lure as the original manufacturer and marking up the price instead of decreasing it like in this instance
Weezel's are copies, yes but they make using a quality lure more affordable for me and other fisho's who cant afford $150 or more for a lure
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Hi,
regardless of the fact that a lot of lures are overpriced in my opinion I do not support the companies that just copy a proven idea.
Copying will stop innovation,since leading companies will not bother if their idea is stolen straight away.
In extremis the originals might go out of business which leaves us with the copycats.
Funny that you mentioned that you would have preferred Neal to ask you if it was okay to use your photo, do you think Weezel asked Hammerhead or Craft Bait?
Regards,
Serge.
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Brad, most GT companies are small companies. Let's take the three companies in question here as examples - Carpenter, Hammerhead and Craftbait. The owners have invested a huge amount of their own time and money to develop and come up with original designs. Designs like the Sea Frog are nearly ten years old and yet the designer is continuing to test and make subtle alterations to his design. These companies, however, are too small to copyright their designs or even trademark their product names. You then have (what are generally) Chinese or South East Asian companies that have invested absolutely nothing in the design simply copying the designs at the request of some middle market operator. You wonder why a GT2 is so expensive - I'd suggest it might have something to do with the investment in the product, not to mention the quality of the finish and componentry used.
I will admit that I haven't always been so sensitive to the issue but having seen the effort Konishi of Carpenter goes to in the development and testing of his poppers and being personally involved in the development and testing of the Fullscale poppers has given me a very different perspective of what is involved in getting a lure "right". To a lot of people, the prototype looks the same as eight iterations before but the effort and time involved between those six iterations is enormous. Also, any special characteristics of the lures had to be thought of by someone - In Fullscale's case, it is the wiring on the lures which is the best in the industry. You can imagine how galling it for the designer to see some cheap sweatshop in Asia copying these characteristics.
Regarding your criticism of Neale, the reality is the moment you post pictures of anything on any forum or even anywhere on the internet, you in effect forfeit any rights you have over them as anyone anywhere can download the pictures. If you have a sensitivity to maintaining proprietary rights to your photos, I suggest you don't post them. If you wish, GTpopping will respect your photos and I will, with the exception of the original post, remove all the photos.
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brandon i appreciate the info as always it is very informative
Just before everyone gets into attacking mode i wish to quote a statement I made about my own attitude toward the product in my first post. "i am not sure where i sit yet with the issue" like i said i was curious to try the product and I know that Neal has purchased some of the craft bait copies too probably like me just through curiosity, thats why i was a little peeved at him, bagging them on one hand and then ready to try them for the same reason no doubt as me on the other.
Agree with everything you said Brandon, I think and have always felt that craftbait products set the bar, in terms of finish they are the best by a country mile.
I guess i was a little greedy when i think about it, i wanted to use a lure that works like a craftbait and this was really the only way i could afford it.
no need to remove my photos either, i dont think to many people out there want a picture of my head in their portfolio
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You hit the nail on the head there Brandon.
Rob
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no worries, Brad - with all respect to you, they guys would have the picture of that GT in their heads, not you!! :D
......and you weren't being a little greedy, you were simply being fiscally sensible. I've been there and done that myself but these days, I find I rather either buy the product of the original manufacturer or go for a cheaper (but still original product) like the Herus and Adheks which are still top products, especially at their prices.
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At no stage did i "bag" these lures i simply stated that they're company name is fitting, im in the same situation where i cant afford to buy/lose top range poppers often and have infact inquired about trying some out. I have bought a quite a few HH's and CB's in the past and intend to buy more when i can tho if i can get my hands on something aftermarket that'll do the job id be foolish not to try it?
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I find I rather either buy the product of the original manufacturer or go for a cheaper (but still original product) like the Herus and Adheks which are still top products, especially at their prices.
Great point there Brandon... another mid-priced "original" that I'd add to that list is the Orion range... true work-horses!
I too bought some cheaper "Copies" of a paticular brand a while back and was quite disgusted in how quickly the paint dissappeared... how quickly they bacame water-logged... and how quickly they became "sinking" Poppers! It came as no suprise that I didn't get a touch on any of this particular lure brand. What did surprise me was that when I went back to to shop where I'd bought them and politely explained the problems with these lures hoping for a refund... they just laughed at me! >:(
I too have learnt that cheaper is often a lot more expensive when you're wasting valuable time on the water trying to make a dead lure come to life ;)
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I agree with most of the comments made so far about copies but I can also understand why the average bloke wants to be able to use a proven shaped lure, weather it is wrong or right I'm sure all of those people who think that it is wrong will agree there has been a time when they were "sucked in" to buying an imitation lure (myself included), and what was the reason for that. To save some money, I'm sure is the answer in most instances
I don't think that the people who do buy the weezels will be disappointed with the quality, I pulled in fish using 16kg's of drag and they handled that no problem. But then as i mentioned before i was sucked in to paying a third of the price for a lure that is "almost" as good, although certainly not original. The finish is probably only second to that of a craftbait, one of the reasons my arms didn't really have to be twisted very far, that and i guess curiosity.
It is just the ethical question as to weather or not to use them. For obvious reasons that is...because they are a copy and there are kick on effects in supporting these lure companies.
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Brad
The "ethics" of using an immitation is certainly a personal decision. I certainly wouldn't judge you or anyone else for buying and using a "weezel"... and going by what you say, at least they are built well.
IMHO, I think that the companies copying the originals are the ones that should be dealling with ethical issues... you'd think that they'd at least go to the trouble of adding at least one small innovative feature to a proven shape to make the lure "theirs".
My issue was more about the "quality" of the immitations I bought(not weezels).
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Neale,where are these Weazels coming from ??
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You hit the nail on the head there Brandon.
Rob
sure did!!
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Not sure asia i think
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actually guys pretty sure it is the US
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there poppers and they catch GTs!!! 8)
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Hi,
regardless of the fact that a lot of lures are overpriced in my opinion I do not support the companies that just copy a proven idea.
Copying will stop innovation,since leading companies will not bother if their idea is stolen straight away.
In extremis the originals might go out of business which leaves us with the copycats.
Funny that you mentioned that you would have preferred Neal to ask you if it was okay to use your photo, do you think Weezel asked Hammerhead or Craft Bait?
Regards,
Serge.
if i was going to type response it would mirror Serge's very closely!