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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: AustralianAngling on December 21, 2009, 09:42:09 PM
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I am in the process of make new treble hooks sample's been made now.
Photo of hook has been edited to show re curve of point to manufacturer.
Will also have small barb which can be crimped.
My question is what hook sizes are you using.6/0, 7/0, 8/0, 10/0 ?
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Steve, the difficulty is that every manufacturer has a different idea of what the hook size means!
I use Owner ST76 5/0s, Gamakatsu Recorder 8/0s and 7/0s and Decoy GT Special 10/0s myself.
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Brandon
Yes sizes vary a bit I have size chart for current brands,I will get samples in a variety of sizes and then decide which ones I will make probably following Decoy sizing.
So can you please advise what brand you are also using when advising size.
Also no more Decoy hooks in GT Special in the larger sizes avaialable.
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I have been hoarding the GT Special 10/0s so should be fine for a while! :D
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Why am I not surprised ;) :D
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I am in the process of make new treble hooks sample's been made now.
Photo of hook has been edited to show re curve of point to manufacturer.
Will also have small barb which can be crimped.
My question is what hook sizes are you using.6/0, 7/0, 8/0, 10/0 ?
Evil looking hooks there Steve.
They look like they will do the business, nice shape.
Perhaps to simplify, a size range using Gamakatsu GT Recorders/ Decoy respective equivalents sizes:
6/0 = 7/0, 7/0=?? and 8/0=10/0 would cover the GT application for the places I fish anyway.
Look forward to seeing the new product, about time something new came on the scene as far as trebles go>
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I use 5/0,6/0,7/0,8/0 sizes based on Gamakatsu GT Recorder sizing.
Steve, any possibility of doing barbless?
Wish they made ST76 Barbless ::).
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I would be very interested in carrying these in my shop. Right now I have Owner and Decoy in my shop as well as VMC and am always looking for new terminal tackle that will do the job.
Cheers
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8/0 and 10/0 Decoy.
I would also like to see a 12/0 - based upon the Decoy sizing.
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Luke,12/0 would be one big heavy hook, I think only a small no of lures on the market could carry that size ;). Would be good, though it would also need to be thicker gauge wire
I know bigger is better most times but it is also easy to put on too big a hook, eg hooks should never be able to "hang up" on lure body. This can happen with too big a gape or too long shaft.
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Luke,12/0 would be one big heavy hook, I think only a small no of lures on the market could carry that size ;). Would be good, though it would also need to be thicker gauge wire
I know bigger is better most times but it is also easy to put on too big a hook, eg hooks should never be able to "hang up" on lure body. This can happen with too big a gape or too long shaft.
Hi Chris,
The GT market is a specialist market - niche, low volume product excels.
Sure it may only be applicable to a small group of select lures - but these happen to be most of the lures I use!
I have deformed x2 Decoy 10/0 trebles last trip (and countless on others) - although this is not uncommon due to leverage and vice-like effect of a GT's mouth - there is most certainly, in my opinion - scope for thicker gauge, bigger gape and in general a bigger hook profile.
I agree with you on your view about "hanging-up" on the lure or leader itself - but hopefully that does not become a design barrier.
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A bigger gape may inherently mean easy to lever and deform but I'm simply putting it out there that it would be nice to consider a larger style treble hook.
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Andy
They are a cross from a Hook I was given many years ago that was not released onto market and the tip return from a Decoy.
Chris
I thought about making just barbless but some prefer to have a bard on there hooks and when you have to make 3000pcs of a size better to get the barb and crimp down when prefered.
Callan
Not a problem should be available early in new year.
Luke
12/0 is possible also will ask manufacture for sample.
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No arguments from me Luke. Larger hooks means I can make even Bigger lures to carry them ;)
Maybe if they use ST76 guage to gape size as a guide for a larger hook. Imagine a 10/0 with really heavy guage, now we're talkin'
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I use ST76 5/0 and Gamakatsu Recorder 7/0 and 8/0.
Interesting discussion here guys, I think it's great how GT fisherman are continuously trying to push the boundaries ;D
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Crusty - I am going to have to impose a size limit on the size and weight of lures I am prepared to test!
More seriously, two Recorder 8/0s are at the absolute limit for most lures in the market. The lure will sink with any more weight on it. If we are going to end up with poppers which weigh 300g with hooks on, I'm not sure how practical that will be.
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Take it easy Chris, you'r getting a bit excited there :D
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Crusty - I am going to have to impose a size limit on the size and weight of lures I am prepared to test!
More seriously, two Recorder 8/0s are at the absolute limit for most lures in the market. The lure will sink with any more weight on it. If we are going to end up with poppers which weigh 300g with hooks on, I'm not sure how practical that will be.
Hi Brandon - we aren't speaking of 'most' lures on the market - we are speaking of usually the biggest - which are reserved for the likes of the ICUP etc.
Irrespective, you refer to Recorders - I don't like these. Firstly, I find that these tend to clean break as opposed to deformation with Decoys from my fishing experiences.
You will also find that the gauge and weight is significantly different to the Decoy. I speculate that a bigger hook can be created with same or slightly thicker gauge to that of the current Decoy GT Special.
All things bring equal, I'm no engineer or metallurgist - but I could live with a similar gauge but bigger profile/gape. I can live with deformation which I predict will not change much unless gauge is increased and gape reduced - unfortunately, both may not be achievable to be under weight of a Recorder but a larger happy medium.
I will try to weigh a Recorder and GT Special tomorrow.
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Steve,
Ever thought of making a double 'Baker rig' style ?? a large gaped single hook welded back to back, (Siden No. 13/0 comes to mind)may go some way in satisfying some of the requests for 'grappling hook' sized trebles.
What would be the negatives apart from the obvious lack of third hook?? on the positive side you could satisfy the requirement for a larger gape hook weighing in less than a treble, also a single eye for easier rigging, you could also use it on nomad!!!
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Steve,
Ever thought of making a double 'Baker rig' style ?? a large gaped single hook welded back to back, (Siden No. 13/0 comes to mind)may go some way in satisfying some of the requests for 'grappling hook' sized trebles.
What would be the negatives apart from the obvious lack of third hook?? on the positive side you could satisfy the requirement for a larger gape hook weighing in less than a treble, also a single eye for easier rigging, you could also use it on nomad!!!
That's a cool idea Andy.
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Luke, two Recorder 8/0s are pushing even an I Cup to the limit. I also prefer the Decoy 10/0 myself but these get deformed just a bit too easily. I don't know if metallurgy is at a point where it can make a bigger but lighter hook. I'm actually sure it is but I don't think the fishing industry is where metallurgy is focussing it's cutting edge technology.
Most of the efforts I've seen over the past few years from Chinese producers look incredibly strong but haven't proven to be under testing. Owner were testing a new prototype last season but we have seen
nothing of it to date.
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Luke, two Recorder 8/0s are pushing even an I Cup to the limit. I also prefer the Decoy 10/0 myself but these get deformed just a bit too easily. I don't know if metallurgy is at a point where it can make a bigger but lighter hook. I'm actually sure it is but I don't think the fishing industry is where metallurgy is focussing it's cutting edge technology.
Most of the efforts I've seen over the past few years from Chinese producers look incredibly strong but haven't proven to be under testing. Owner were testing a new prototype last season but we have seen
nothing of it to date.
I don't mean smaller guage to current Decoy but hopefully smaller guage to Recorder but larger actual size. Achievable - I don't know. Desirable - YES!
8/0 Recorders are ok on ICUPs in my opinion but as you agree - Decoys are preferable. Even at Recorder weight it would be adequate.
I guess each persons preference and threshold or ability to work a lure is different.
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Luke,
When popping, is it threshold or thrashhold!
:)
Aaron.
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I will try to weigh a Recorder and GT Special tomorrow.
Luke FYI, Gama No8/0 26gm, Decoy No.10/0 22gm, and for interests sake the ST76 5/0 18gm
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Thanks Andy. That is very interesting.