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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Luke Wyrsta on August 16, 2007, 10:33:04 AM
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I'm interested in members thoughts on anything technical or unknown they would like to see explained or more detail in on the forum and on the main website.
For example, i plan to improve the instructions on how to make twisted leaders and other rigs...
Any requests or questions?
Thanks,
Luke
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Yes definitely the twisted leaders i have tried with little success ,cant seem to stop the end that you would loop on to the braided double from unwinding.
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that would be great luke!!!
ive been haveing the same prob as cam.
:(
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Cam / Aaron how do you guys get the leader so it twists together? They way i do it, Once i have twisted the leader length up (usualy using a battery drill) i get another person to hold the end thats not fixed. I then roughly find the center of the leader i form a loop and the leader should start twisting together as the person with the non fixed end slowly moves towards the center.
I have never had to looped end even try to untwist.
Here is a photo of the looped end twisting together.
Cheers
Rob
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I wouldnt mind seeing some tips for travelling with tackle, there should be a fair bit of experience amongst us .
Setting up and reading fish finders would be usefull to me as well, I havn't a clue with them past looking for lumps, bumps, and fish shapes on the screen (see what I mean!)
Earl.
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I make my leaders by twisting a length of 100lb penn 10x with a spinning reel, turn the handle 80-100 times. then i get someone to find the middle of the leader and clip on a snap swivle but hold the snap so it cannot twist.then i walk around to where the other side was conected and hold thr reel in place while the other person pulls the line very tight. when the line is tight they hold the swivill end and let the snap spin. i un-clip the snap and tie a knot on the other side, then crinp on bight leader and swivel.
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I just tried the way you suggested Ivan and it works well, alot easier then the way i have been doing them.
Oh and sorry for hijacking your thread luke :)
Cheers
Rob
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Hi Luke / everyone. Got a few newbie questions here, wonder if you can help?
I'm fine with making up twisties but need a few tips on best ways to finish them off.
eg, twisted leader tied directly to swivel. (is uni knot best?)
twistd leader to single strand mono or Fluro leader (for stickbaits etc and also lighter line classes)
Also do you have any comments on using FG knot on hard fluro leaders? Does it bite as well as a soft mono would, or is it not recommended?
Cheers Dave
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Hi Dave
there is no "best" way for finishing off twisties. It comes down to what you're comfortable with. If you want to tie it directly to a swivel, a uni knot is fine. I prefer to wind the twistie back to create a doubled section which we call a bite segment but that is purely a personal thing. Some of us think that provides a bit more protection from being bitten or rubbed off.
For attaching a single strand to the end of a twistie, you can use a crimp or you can tie the single strand to the twistie. it depends on how heavy the single strand is. If it is not too heavy, you can use a uni knot each way but if the single strand is really heavy (like say 300lb), you may have to use a nail knot on it as it will be very hard to make it bite. I can't get a leader or this size to bite with a uni knot but I know some people who can.
I would not consider using a fluorocarbon leader with any of the knots where you have to tie the braid around the single strand (FG, PE, midknot etc). It is just too hard and you will have trouble getting it to bite.
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Yes definitely the twisted leaders i have tried with little success ,cant seem to stop the end that you would loop on to the braided double from unwinding.
Cam,
Have you been able to make one that doesn't unwind yet?
After the initial twists you put in the single strand, when you double, you twist in the opposite direction (reverse to orignial twists).
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers,
Luke
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Cam / Aaron how do you guys get the leader so it twists together? They way i do it, Once i have twisted the leader length up (usualy using a battery drill) i get another person to hold the end thats not fixed. I then roughly find the center of the leader i form a loop and the leader should start twisting together as the person with the non fixed end slowly moves towards the center.
I have never had to looped end even try to untwist.
Here is a photo of the looped end twisting together.
Cheers
Rob
I personally find it much easier and find the twists are much more neater and compact when you use a drill to make the twists from that point on.
IMPORTANT: twist in the opposite direction to what you formed the first twists. Always twist from the same side otherwise twisting can be done in the same direction both times.
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Hi Luke / everyone. Got a few newbie questions here, wonder if you can help?
I'm fine with making up twisties but need a few tips on best ways to finish them off.
eg, twisted leader tied directly to swivel. (is uni knot best?)
twistd leader to single strand mono or Fluro leader (for stickbaits etc and also lighter line classes)
Also do you have any comments on using FG knot on hard fluro leaders? Does it bite as well as a soft mono would, or is it not recommended?
Cheers Dave
David,
What Brandon said is correct.
Touching on single leaders attached to twisted leaders - for me, they are used for two purposes.
1. Increased diameter/abrasion resistance for say big poppers
2. Attached as FC because A: less visibility in the water; & B: I prefer to work a stickbait with a single strand for what in my opinion facilitates better action and touch.
As to preferences, i tend to finish my twisties by forming the bite leader as Brandon metioned for say big poppers and pencils or uni-knotting a single strand for stickbaits and sometimes big poppers. If fish are shy, generally tend to revert to twisty/single strand FC shock leader for stickbaits.
None of the cinching knots work on FC i have used. Perhaps in the future there will be a softer and more supple FC available. I never used a full leader made from FC instead opting for a 'bite' leader.
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I don't think I could afford to use FC for a full leader, especially twisted leaders!
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thanks ivan,just tried your way
and thanks luke for mentioning to twist oppisite way on second twist..PERFECT
:)
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Thanks for your help guys,
Brandon, I'll be using lighter leaders so wont have to worry about tying in 300lb. Good to know a uni to uni connection is up to it.
Luke, same idea with using a single FC leader for visability reasons. Would a few meters of twisted leader for protection and then a uni connection and 60cm of FC shock leader to lure be long enough? I still want the knot just outside the rod tip.
I will be using this same theory for Sydney kingies on lighter tackle aswell as trips to the reef for GT's.
Cheers Dave
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I wouldnt mind seeing some tips for travelling with tackle, there should be a fair bit of experience amongst us .
Agree there Earl, that's a good idea ;D
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Luke, same idea with using a single FC leader for visability reasons. Would a few meters of twisted leader for protection and then a uni connection and 60cm of FC shock leader to lure be long enough? I still want the knot just outside the rod tip.
I will be using this same theory for Sydney kingies on lighter tackle aswell as trips to the reef for GT's.
Cheers Dave
That will work Dave, you'll find a lot of guys using that setup. I tend to use around a metre (as much as i can to the point that i can cast comfortably but the knot is outside the tip).
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I've just had a thought regarding getting the braid to bite into Flourocarbon using an FG knot etc....
Basically just roughing up the hard smooth outer surface with sandpaper!?? This is the same technique used by game fisherman using dacron sleeves for wind ons and is standard practice for any line class (I think?)
They sandpaper 20cm of the leader to be inserted into the dacron, and finish it off so everything stays in place.
Could be worth a test? I'll try it on light gear and see how it goes...
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Good idea - look forward to your results.
Upon Neil's advice, i was trying this for a midknot in 200lb braid. The problem was, i had to sandpaper a really big area of the leader material because when the knot is tightened, the braid will slip. It slipped way past the sandpapered area to the point where i have to create an insurance knot.
Anyways, i would be interested on thoughts regarding sanding FC. Will it retain it's effectiveness or will it be rendered the same as normal mono- ie. when you get a knick in FC i was under the impression that this will make the FC loose it's low visibility properties by letting light in?
Cheers,
Luke
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Yes definitely the twisted leaders i have tried with little success ,cant seem to stop the end that you would loop on to the braided double from unwinding.
Cam,
Have you been able to make one that doesn't unwind yet?
After the initial twists you put in the single strand, when you double, you twist in the opposite direction (reverse to orignial twists).
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers,
Luke
Yip i made my first one today after wasting a few meters of mono,tricky little suckers but i will practise and practise till I'm confident to use more expensive leader material the one i made was out of Penn 10x
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Cam - the Penn 10X may be cheap, hard, stiff and loud through the runners but with the exception of being loud through the runners, that's exactly what you want. I tested it extensively at Bugatti and now I'm not planning on using anything else. It took being rubbed against the coral and rocky bottom better than any other leader material I've ever used. I'm going to stick with it until something better comes along.
I will make the comment that making twisted leaders with it is considerably harder than any other leaders I've used because it so stiff!!
I've been making twisties all afternoon
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Brandon, in a earlier topic you did have a question mark on the 100 lb 10X [me too], glad to see it tested OK as I've been building my stockpile of twisted leaders with it as well,
I had reservations over the opaque colour but after putting it up next to some Jinkai 120 and 150 lb it's nowhere near as reflective.
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Greg - you're right. I did not like the material at all when I was making the twisted leaders for the reasons stated above. It was stiff, hard etc and on top of all of that, it was really hard making them. It is also louder through the runners than any other leader material I have used. All of that said, I found it did not compromise my casting distance (or if it did, it was not noticeable) and most important of all, I found that it could really take the hits. I landed some fish and recovered some lures in situations where Jinkai would have been demolished. Of course, the twisted leader is damaged to the point where it needs to be replaced but being able to land the fish is what is important.
The other consideration is that it is cheap! A 50m spool of any other sutff is enough for me to make about 6 twisties. I get a dozen from a spool of 10x for the same price (it comes in 100m spools).
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Can one wax up the twisted leader to make it run over the guides smoother or is this not needed.
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Cam - I wouldn't bother. Also, the wax would leave a residue on the guides.
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If its smooth and hard, isnt it going to go through the guides easier/smoother?
Isnt cast distance going to be more affected by leader size/wind resistance more than anything? Therefore using a thinner diameter, but harder leader will increase casting distance. Am I miles off here or what? ::) ???
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you actually may have a point, Ben. The only thing is Penn 10X is of a thicker diameter than most other leaders
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Hi Luke,
Would you be able to sort out some reel breakdown pictures/information. I reckon they would get more than their fair share of views.
A rod building feature maybe (i know there loads already on the internet, but i havnt found much on specific jigging/popping rods.
Good work on keeping this forum/site the best reference site on the subject I have found.
Cheers
Ben
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Yeah a rod building section would be handy. Maybe including a list of proven recipes for popping/jigging rods. Hal from Bluewater gave me a recipe for my Calstar that I'm very happy with. Definately something to do while the wind is too strong to go fishing.
steve