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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Christoffer Hansen on April 24, 2011, 03:11:31 PM
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Hi guys,
I'm after a dedicated heavy popping rod for fishin deep shoals with king kongs, I cups, ebi ext etc. I'll be using a Saltiga Exp loaded with pe10. I was wondering if anyone has used the hots and if it's a stiff enough rod for working big poppers and how it goes casting lures in the 180-250g range. My mate uses the RF78xh n it certainly does the job but has a price tag to match where's the hots is significantly cheaper.
Any info much appreciated,
Cheers chris
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Never held a Hots XXXH but I will comment that the Hots ratings tend to be overdone compared to other rod makers. Eg the H rated Hots feel like the lighter side of medium rods to me. Given that, I would be a bit concerned that the "XXXH" might not really be that type of rating at all. Be good if someone who has held one could confirm that?
The RF78XH is well known as an absolute beast of an ultra stiff broomstick rod.
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The XXXH is a Come here stick for sure, Not as stiff in the tip as the 78XH, but more than capable of raising a big GT. King Kong's are not an easy lure to work at the best of times. I have used the XXXH with the lures you mentioned.
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Chris, the best way I can respond is to say - can you use a 77XXXH for King Kongs and I Cups? Well, yes. Is it ideal? Well, no.
Both of these lures will over-saturate the 77XXXH. I'd struggle to rate the 77XXXH as stronger than the Ripple 79H, let alone a 78XH which is a real broomstick. If you do want to get one of these ultra broomsticks, just be sure you can hold onto it for an extended fight with a big fish.
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Thanks for that Brandon - pretty much as I suspected. Why do Hots over-rate all their rods? It is misleading.
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I have no idea, Mark. I suppose it depends on each individual manufacturer and how they want to calibrate their ratings. I agree so don't seem to make a lot of sense. One which I have never understood is Smith with the rating in kgs for the Komodo Dragon. Mind you, the softest PE10 rated rod on the market I am aware of is the Jigging Master
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The Jigging Master i would rate a PE8 Rod I have seen a new model that has K guides ,and they rate that at PE10 ,very parabolic stick i have had one for afew years and find it easy on the body .
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Thanks for the info guys, looks like I'm saving for a while longer and purchasing the RF.
I prefer to use stickbaits in most situations and will only be using this rod for the largest poppers to hopefully raise monsters from the deep reefs.
Brandon, as for holding onto this rod, i know it's beyond my capabilities to fish it to it's potential. Being 6'3 and 80kgs I'm very lanky, though I'm not into going gym i do have the opportunity to go poppering every week so hopefully with enough use of the broomstick will soon be much stronger or my arms may drop off!
Chris
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Love your attitude Chris, the RF78xh may be a beast of a rod but it will pop the $hit out of those lures without folding in half, many rods have a stated max cast weight to handle these size lures but they tend to fold with larger cup sizes which means you don't get the true action from the lure. XH is a great choice ;D
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Chris just loves people who are brave enough to buy a rod that can actually work his largest popper :).
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Chris just loves people who are brave enough to buy a rod that can actually work his largest popper :).
Mark ,
From talking to Mogi these past few days , in Japan most new rods are geared toward working the stickbaits rather than poppers nowaday , this is reflected in Carpenter's new offerings in their heaviest GT rods too . Even DJ models are experiencing a come back due to it's versatile nature , especially the ML version for Japanese market .
Jon .
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Jon, all very true mate, but I also believe there is no one lure or technique perfect for every situation, poppers are usually one of the first and most successfull lures to be used in our sport by beginners because in there simplest form they are so easy to use, and get good results. Many newbies get hold of a stickbait and expect it to swim by itself which most times won't happen. All part of the learning curve and growth of the sport. Big lures or small lures, they all work but there is also part tackle whore in all of us that says I just got to have "that " thing because it's different ;D
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Jon, all very true mate, but I also believe there is no one lure or technique perfect for every situation, poppers are usually one of the first and most successfull lures to be used in our sport by beginners because in there simplest form they are so easy to use, and get good results. Many newbies get hold of a stickbait and expect it to swim by itself which most times won't happen. All part of the learning curve and growth of the sport. Big lures or small lures, they all work but there is also part tackle whore in all of us that says I just got to have "that " thing because it's different ;D
Hi Chris ,
I agree wholeheartedly with , many in my country still use poppers with good results . My posting is only highlighting what I heard from Mogi himself and what seems to evolve from Carpenter which indicate that stickbaits are now more popular in Japan than popper .
Jon .
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Jon, all very true mate, but I also believe there is no one lure or technique perfect for every situation, poppers are usually one of the first and most successfull lures to be used in our sport by beginners because in there simplest form they are so easy to use, and get good results. Many newbies get hold of a stickbait and expect it to swim by itself which most times won't happen. All part of the learning curve and growth of the sport. Big lures or small lures, they all work but there is also part tackle whore in all of us that says I just got to have "that " thing because it's different ;D
Hi Chris ,
I agree wholeheartedly with , many in my country still use poppers with good results . My posting is only highlighting what I heard from Mogi himself and what seems to evolve from Carpenter which indicate that stickbaits are now more popular in Japan than popper .
Jon .
I asked this question to Konishi san when I see him last time and he thinks stickbaits are more effective in deeper fields like Tokara in Japan but poppers are still good way to attract GTs in shallow coral area such as GBR or NC. Otherwise he won't be keen for testing new Sea Frogs!
To prove this, we all know lots of big GTs have been caught with Crusty's poppers anyway ;)
Sorry to interrupt, this isn't meant to be popper vs stickbait thread.....
Cheers,
Tak
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I asked this question to Konishi san when I see him last time and he thinks stickbaits are more effective in deeper fields like Tokara in Japan but poppers are still good way to attract GTs in shallow coral area such as GBR or NC. Otherwise he won't be keen for testing new Sea Frogs!
Funny, last time I was in NC the water under the boat where I was popping was 120m deep! ;D This is contrary to what the LPB boys think, and its interesting because Konishi-san went there with great results. I wonder if it has changed their thinking.
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Funny, last time I was in NC the water under the boat where I was popping was 120m deep! ;D This is contrary to what the LPB boys think, and its interesting because Konishi-san went there with great results. I wonder if it has changed their thinking.
I was thinking the same Kasey but obviously he thinks differently. It is from where fish are so cautious in tough condition in Japan and we are still in fortunate situation where fish are attacking poppers aggressively whether it is shallow or deep, let's put it that way.
Cheers,
Tak
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I was quite surprised when Kenji expressed the viewed that he found stickbaits worked better in deep water. We've generally used big poppers exclusively in deep water but since our trip in October, I have to admit that big stickbaits do work well in deep water. I'm not not sure why.
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Guys,
this may seem like a stupid question but at roughly what depth of water do you refer to as deep? is it as simple as anywhere you can see the bottom as shallow and where you cant as deep?
Mick.
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Hi Mick,
I tend to refer where I can see reefs and bommies as shallow and anything deeper as deep.
Cheers,
Tak
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Over maybe 30m of water...
The logic was that in deep water the fish might be hanging out deep and only with a big chugger and a loud sound would they be drawn or attracted to the surface to notice the commotion and hence bite.
With a stickbait, it is comparatively silent, so unless the GT is actively hunting at the top 20-30m and looking up, in deep water, why would they be more attracted?
Maybe something you could ask Tak.
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Logically, I would fully concur with Kasey. It is hard to see why a stickbait would raise a fish from the deep........
My experience is that in locations that have been popped to death over a long period, then big GTs will studiously ignore chuggers but be tempted by surface stickbaits. Bali is a very good example where he majority of fish in recent times over 15 kgs have been on surface sticks, but the smaller ones continue to smash poppers.
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Guy's
having never really used stickbaits that much but knowing that i should, if in deep water what sort of sinking stickbaits are you using? i'm guessing there going to be fairly large and how far do you let them sink before starting your retrieve?
Mick
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The most famous sinking stick bait of all is the Orion Bigfoot. The heaviest model, the 230 sinks fast. Over deep reefs or sea mounts, you can let these sink for quite a long time. Just don't let it get stuck on the bottom!
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Bigfoots sure sink fast and are an excellent lure. Idiot here has snagged one on the bottom :-[.
I like the Heru Bobaras as well, and at the light end the ultra realistic sinking Shimano Ocea Pencils can be very effective when all else fails.
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Just wondering how many days per year do you guys fish? Seems to be a lot of talk here? I know have probably upset a few guys here in the last sentence , but I genuinely want to know...... Mark And Jay I have noticed
spend a lot of time here, and seem to know there stuff, So I presume they have spent the time on the water. I dont doubt that Luke and Brandon do also, I have racked up well over 350 hrs in a bit over 2 years . I work in the mines and work an even time roster, so I am out chasin GT alot. I have alot of success and alot of monster failures ( Shoalwater GT ) damn it ! So please let me know every ones thoughts.
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Well, a "lot of talk" is precisely what a forum is designed to encourage. There are some extraordinarily knowledgeable people here from whom I have learned an awful lot.
You mean GT fishing or all fishing?
It's a bit variable, but if I look at the past 12 months I have been out seriously popping and jigging for about 51 days. Lots of day trips there plus some longer liveaboards. No idea how many hours that equates to as I can think of a few liveaboard days when I probably fished 18-20 hours.
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Gavin you probably fish more often than me mate :-[ these days I seem to spend too much time filling orders for other lucky buggers
BUT, I'm off for a week to a remote location today so "suffer in ya' jocks" :P
In regards to popper vs stickbait......who knows??, trends shift all the time, so do fish moods!!. I guess if they are educated fish you need to try everything sometimes. Like some days I like chicken and some days I like steak ;D
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Sinking stickbaits may be effective in deep water, but it's hard to beat the adrenaline rush from a surface bite on a large popper by a donkey gt!
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Gavin, you sentence of "seems to be a lot of talk here" is unnecessarily brusque. If there is a need to questions someone's credentials, then Luke and I will do that in the background as we have done previously. What you've done is likely to scare the hell out of any new member from posting.
Just wondering how many days per year do you guys fish? Seems to be a lot of talk here? I know have probably upset a few guys here in the last sentence , but I genuinely want to know...... Mark And Jay I have noticed
spend a lot of time here, and seem to know there stuff, So I presume they have spent the time on the water. I dont doubt that Luke and Brandon do also, I have racked up well over 350 hrs in a bit over 2 years . I work in the mines and work an even time roster, so I am out chasin GT alot. I have alot of success and alot of monster failures ( Shoalwater GT ) damn it ! So please let me know every ones thoughts.
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Hi Christoffer
If you looking for an RF 78XH, I have a brand new custom Metallic Blue, never been cast or fished, which I am really needing to get rid of cause I need the cash... I dropped you a PM...
Cheers
Dre
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Just wondering how many days per year do you guys fish? Seems to be a lot of talk here? I know have probably upset a few guys here in the last sentence , but I genuinely want to know...... Mark And Jay I have noticed
spend a lot of time here, and seem to know there stuff, So I presume they have spent the time on the water.
Hi Gavin, like yourself I also work in the mines and work an even time roster. Although I doubt I spend as much time 'away' on trips as some of the other members here, I was fortunate enough (until recent times when I moved down to Perth to start a new job) to have GT's in my backyard and spent as much time as the conditions allowed to target them from my local area.
Despite how much time I spend on the water per year I only started fishing for GT's in 2007 and I'm sure there are members here who have been targeting them from the late 90's (or quite possibly much earlier) so there are a lot of anglers who have more experience than myself.
This thread seems to have gone off topic a fair bit...