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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: benno_reed on December 03, 2011, 10:15:53 AM
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Hi Guys,
Still getting into this popping caper, but one of my other new hobbies is rod building. Built 5 rods so far, and all I have been really happy, but my next rod will be a popping rod. I will be using the Black Hole 80N blank, and after great experience with K guides on lighter rods (up to PE5), I bought some to use on these rod.
I found this forum after I bought the K guides, but does anyone use them on their popping rods, and have any feedback? I noticed Hot's and Daiwa are both using them, and while they aren't the top of the GT popping tree, they are both quality brands.
I bought the Stainless frame, SiC ring model.
Cheers,
Ben
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I have one GT rod rebuilt with titanium K guides. I find them noisy the way they rattle through the guides but i have to acknowledge that wind knots are reduced very significantly.
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Thanks for the reply Brandon.
I generally use the Titanium K guides for my smaller rods, but i was told they can be a little too flexible for heavier line class. Have you hand any concerns regarding the strength / flexibility of the guides?
And yes, they are great for wind knots. My 15lb tuna rod as the craziest guide layout I have ever seen, but boy does it cast like a rocket, and never a wind knot to be seen! (Maybe Fuji do have an inkling of what they are talking about!!)
Cheers,
Ben
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I know a couple of the manufacturers have eschewed these hooks due to strength concerns. All i can say is they survivied the trip we went on. As to how they would go over a long period, i can't say at this point.
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I'm not sure if any manufacture builds heavy GT rods with K-Guides. With stainless steel K-Guides, a set of 12-40 size is lot heavier than MNSG to use and as Brandon mentioned, many manufactures have concern about strength with titanium K-Guides on heavy rods (not only K-Guides but titanium guides on heavy rod generally).
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Tak, I remember one prototype of a FCL that we had out at Bugatti a couple of years ago had K guides. I assume the production model went back to Super Ocean MNSG guides?
I'm not sure if any manufacture builds heavy GT rods with K-Guides. With stainless steel K-Guides, a set of 12-40 size is lot heavier than MNSG to use and as Brandon mentioned, many manufactures have concern about strength with titanium K-Guides on heavy rods (not only K-Guides but titanium guides on heavy rod generally).
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I think so Brandon. It was also with smaller set of K-Guides (size 12 tip).
Tak, I remember one prototype of a FCL that we had out at Bugatti a couple of years ago had K guides. I assume the production model went back to Super Ocean MNSG guides?
I'm not sure if any manufacture builds heavy GT rods with K-Guides. With stainless steel K-Guides, a set of 12-40 size is lot heavier than MNSG to use and as Brandon mentioned, many manufactures have concern about strength with titanium K-Guides on heavy rods (not only K-Guides but titanium guides on heavy rod generally).
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Konishi-san is of the opinion that Fuji K guides are OK for rods below PE4 in line rating and MNSC guides are still better for rods with line rating of PE4 n above .
Jon .
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Thanks for all the replies guys!
Since their doesn't seem to be a huge amount of feedback, I bit the bullet and bought some Stainless/SiC K guides for my project.
If it all goes pear shape, at least we will all know!
Be a few months before the rod is finished, and won't be March until I head to Exmouth, but I'll keep everyone informed of how the guides handle the strain.
Cheers,
Ben
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Hi Ben, I think the main concern is in the shape of the guide and where the forces go when the rod is fully loaded rather than casting performance. Because the guide ring is angled there must be considerable forces at the guide ring trying to straighten the guide back to perpendicular to the rod. Just how much those forces are is anyone's guess.
From a mechanical point of view I think they might end up cracking at the front guide leg where it meets the ring frame. I think this is where it will flex the most.
Who knows how long it will last, it would be interesting to put a rod with K guides onto a charter operation for a season to see.
Looking forward to hearing about your rod. Make sure you post some pics! :D
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I remember he mentioned that he gets more distance with normal MNSG.
Konishi-san is of the opinion that Fuji K guides are OK for rods below PE4 in line rating and MNSC guides are still better for rods with line rating of PE4 n above .
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OTI uses K series guides on our Tuna Sniper popping line. We have hundreds of Bluefin tuna over 200lbs on the 76XXH. I have never had a rod returned due to guide failure.
The extra cost is most likely the reason for production builders sticking with the standard framed Fujis. I personally like the extra height off the blank I get with a K series 40 over the MN series 40 as the stripper. For a custom rod, to save a little cash, you can do K series in 40 and 30 as your first two and regular MN's the rest of the way.
After the 40, the weight difference is not much, so I have chosen to stick with K's for the new Tuna Sniper line coming out.
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Brice, you really think premium manufacturers like Carpenter and Ripple Fisher would care about a little bit of extra cost for a K guide? No way.
Even if it did add cost, that would go onto the retail price of the rod. At that level of the market consumers are not especially sensitive to small moves in price.
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I'm really not sure. It was more speculation than anything. I haven't had failures with MNSG or KWSG guides on our popping rods. I personally like the K series because we do a lot of drift fishing, so sometimes you'll get in a wind that's crossing the current. That makes the perfect scenario for wind knots and line whip. I've broken leaders and lost lures because of this and found that the K series greatly reduced the problem, even when I tried to create it testing them out.
Either way, the MN's are proven and the K's are a cool advancement.
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Very good info
I think I have seen some new hot's popping rod that came with K guides
Have anyone tried them before
Sorry I couldn't remember the model number
Tks
Kenny
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Mark, I can confirm that it wasn't a cost issue. As you quite correctly surmised, neither company needs to be as sensitive to the cost of the components as their customers will pay for superior performance. If I remember correctly, Ripple had performance concerns with them particularly with clearance of the line from the blank in the guides near the tip (they were noisy and were slapping against the blank) and they were also concerned about the strength of the guides.
I know Carpenter tested them and decided against them in their GT rods. i think Konishi San did not see any performance advantages in them and had concerns about the overall strength of the guides as well.
That said, I found them to be strong enough (to date). The first trip i took the rod with the K guides on was actually with Tak and Konishi San . As it was driving me crazy rattling through the end guides, the look on Konishi San's face was one of familarity! ;D
I do note that the company that has always had the option for the fanciest guides, Fisherman, has also eschewed them to date.
Brice, you really think premium manufacturers like Carpenter and Ripple Fisher would care about a little bit of extra cost for a K guide? No way.
Even if it did add cost, that would go onto the retail price of the rod. At that level of the market consumers are not especially sensitive to small moves in price.
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Hello lads,
I am glad this topic has opened up a bit. I see there isn't a huge amount of love for the K Guides, but I have used them a few times now (in Titanium) on some lighter rods, and they have performed well.
I am not concerned about saving cost of this rod, and if it isn't up to scratch, I can can rebuild it, or build another one! All part of the fun of learning how to build rods.
In the interest of a bit of shameless self promotion, here are some rods that have Fuji K Guides (and one that doesn't), that I have built:
In chronological order:
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8548/p1000220kk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/p1000220kk.jpg/)
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3037/p1000217ve.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/p1000217ve.jpg/)
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3557/p1000245q.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/p1000245q.jpg/)
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4246/p1000249jn.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/691/p1000249jn.jpg/)
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7124/p1000259p.jpg) (http://"http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/p1000259p.jpg/")
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7618/p1000258wf.jpg) (http://"http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/28/p1000258wf.jpg/")
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3644/p1000316a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/p1000316a.jpg/)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6840/p1000337ro.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/p1000337ro.jpg/)
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Some nice rods there Ben.
I have built 3 rods with the K guides, 1 is a 10lb rod for Jungle Perch another is my girlfriends 15lb all-rounder and the biggest one so far is my Lightcast 70M PE2-4.
I do like the guides very much for all 3, but i don't think I'll use the k's for anything above the pe4 mark.
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Lightcast 70M PE2-4.
Warwick i knew it was a Lightcast 70M! Post some pics mate.
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I seem to remember Warwick has posted pics of that rod before..... maybe in the Kaiser sub-forum.
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Lightcast 70M PE2-4.
Warwick i knew it was a Lightcast 70M! Post some pics mate.
Nope, not that one Chris. You'll have to wait a little longer to see the one your thinking about ;)
Mark is right, there are plenty of pics in the Kaiser sub-forum of my 70M