GTPopping.com - Giant Trevally, GTPopping, Topwater & GT Fly-Fishing Resource
Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Doug Mac on July 27, 2012, 09:06:17 PM
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Hi Guys
I currently own a Ripple Fisher Ultimo 79h and am very happy with it for stick baits and light poppers , but have decided it is time the get myself a dedicated popping rod as well. I would like to use poppers up to about 200 gr and will be using PE8 to PE10 line. I fish various different locations all from a boat. I have borrowed a friends Komodo dragon on a few occasions and found it quite nice to use , the question I would like to ask is what would you recommend to look at purchasing given that I don't need this rod to be an allrounder as such, but would like it to be the closest thing to an all round popper/chugger rod if there is such an "animal"!!!
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Hi Doug, 200 grams is a big chugger and is normally the remit of specialist stiff rods rather than any type of all rounder rod.
In the current Carpenter range, MH79XH gets you to about 180/190 gram chuggers but that is stretching it and there is definitely no further to go. MH80H will pop a 170 gram GT3 for example but that is about its top limit and it is better with slightly smaller lures. If you can find one 2nd hand, the older Super Popping 79 XH and UHL will manage 200 gram chuggers.
Both MH79XH and MH80H are surprisingly easy rods to use given their immense power and I would put them down as all round chugger rods which is what you ask for, but they fall a bit short of the top end of the chugger weight range you are looking at.
If 200 grams is definitely the requirement, you would probably need to be looking at the much stiffer and harder to use offerings at the heavy end of Patriot Design range or a Ripple Fisher 78XH for example. I am sure there are members here who can advise you on those type of options - just not my sort of rods and they could never be classed as all rounders :).
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Hammer Head Faube 77H - very nice specialized popping rod, capable to work with big chaggers. Very light and easy to handle. It is specified as 77 in lengh, but in fact it is 78. The rod action is VERY good. Pop chuggers as if you do it by your hand.
Patriot Design Black Diamond 77 is also great, and can be found with low rider guides. Though it works chuggers fine, I think its more an allrounder than specialized popping rod.
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i have a XZOGA TAKADUM TAKA Pi 7710 very happy with it maybe another one to consider ;)
http://www.xzoga.com/taka-pi.php
it now comes with k series guides!
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Thanks for the advice Guys
Sorry my post was probably a bit misleading
200gr would definitely be the absolute upper limits to what I would use and not all that often. I don't think i am fit enough or strong enough to handle them for too long!!( if at all) , in reality I am probably looking at something that will happily pop 140-180gr which puts both the Carpenter MH in the ball park. Is it possible to describe the difference in action of the two rods? You say they are both easy to use , do you mean working the lure, fighting the fish or both? I will definitely put the MH on the list if I can find them. Will try to find some specs on the Hammer head & Patriot
Thanks again
Doug
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As for Hammer Head you can find specs here.
http://www.hammer-head.jp/frame.page.htm
just click Product, then Rod Line up, then Faube Series, then Faube 77H
But if you want to cast 140-180g, Faube 77M+ will be better choice than 77H. It is maximum 180g, but i used it with 180g poppers + ST76 5/0 trebles and the rod did not feel oversaturated. The maker says they tested it with 220g I-cups and PE12 and it was good.
Comparing with MH80H, Faube is much more easy to pop big cup chuggers, but not so good at casting. You have to apply more power to Faube to cast it well than you do with MH80H, but when you pop the chugger it is much more easy with Faube in comparison to MH80H.
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Ah, that makes it easier Doug :)
Carpenter MH80H has become my single favourite popping rod and if I could own only one rod, this would be it. As Dmitiri alludes to it is a very good caster. It also has heaps of power down low, but due to the blank technology is remarkably easy on the body when you are into a big fish. I think its upper limit is a GT3 170 gram/Cubera 180 gram chugger, and it is absolutely sweet in the 140 to 160 range.
I only recently acquired its heavier cohort, MH79XH so I can't speak from so much personal experience on the water with this one. It is though noticeably stiffer tipped and it clearly has a sweet range that is a bit heavier than MH80H. Weight-wise it is comfortable and it casts very well for a shorter rod. I would probably class this as more of a PE10 rod and MH80H as more of a PE8 rod, although both are rated PE8-10.
On Hammerhead Faube, I have used 77M+ a bit as a friend owns one. I even caught a good 25 kg fish with it. It was a nice rod for working 150 gram GT3 and I am sure it would go heavier. Also light. But, and it's a big but for me, I found it hard to cast. Not just a factor of its length, it just seemed like a tough rod to cast well. I kind of put it in the Smith Komodo Dragon bracket for that reason.
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With GT fishing requires a lot casts using heavy lures nowaday , one needs to preserve stamina to subdue big GT when the strike eventually happens , a good rod should be balanced in ease of casting and at the same time has good action to counter every moves the fish make as well as giving the angler as much advantage to finish the fight in shortest possible time to ensure successfull CnR and hopefully the angler is still strong enough to do the cycle all over again until the next strike . Choose your rod carefully because once you bought a wrong one , it's not easy to get rid off at the reasonable asking price .
Jon .
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A very good piece of advice Jon. Unfortunately down here in Victoria we do not get to see alot of the rods spoken about on this forum so consequently I am trying to make a short list of rods that I can try to track down and make my decision from there.
Currently from what Mark has said I would definitely like to have a look at both the MH rods (not sure where i will find them?) as they sound like they have the attributes I am looking for. The Hammer Head sounds OK but seems to loose out in the casting stakes , which is an important factor especially when the fish are a bit scarce. So currently I have the Carpenter Monster Hunters on my short list if any one else has some other suggestions I would be only to glad to hear them.
Doug
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Doug forum sponsor Fishhead in Brisbane has both in stock: http://www.fishhead.com.au/store/categories/Rods/Carpenter/ . There are not too many knocking around so great that Fishhead has both.
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Hi Doug,
Perhaps give the Saltywater tackle Racepoint 250 a look. Its a 7ft5 stick that was designed for Bluefin tuna , it has a ton of backbone and casts like a dream, and for me most importantly, it is a very light rod. It is also very well priced for what you are getting and better value for money for that kind of quality i dont think you will find. I am currently using this stick as my dedicated popping outfit and have been doing so for almost 2 years now.
I tend to think the shorter the rod the better it is for popping and the less it hurts you ! But thats just me :)
This all being said ... I am awaiting my Carpenter 8ft MH :P .. But thats going to be for stickbait use only. :P
Check out Gara Pro shop, i think Luke has them in stock and he is based in Sydney.
Tight lines and all the best
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Doug,
By my opinion, MH80H is not a dedicated popping rod, which you required from the very beginning. Though it is an excellent rod, and sometimes it can even have adventages for poppers over popping rod (waves). I think that whatever maker we take into consideration, specialized popping rod will be worse caster than all rounder as well as long casters will be harder (i mean not so good) for poppers than shorter rods. So, you may have to reconsider your requirements or accept a compromise.
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By the way, take into consideration Ripple Fisher Final Spirit GT79H. It is a popping rod, PE10 - ok, light, powerful, and I think it is a very good caster for its lengh. I used it side by side to MH80H and the casting distance was not so considerably different under the following conditions - PE10, 200Lb shock leader, poppers in 150g-170g range with ST76 5/0 and 4/0 trebles, Decoy heavy split rings #10 and #11.
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Dmitri is certainly right - there are always compromises unless you buy a lot of rods. That's why so many of us end up with a dozen or more popping rods, all with slightly different attributes!
If you are making casting difference comparisons, you need to make those with rods of a similar length. Hence my comment that even taking its shorter length into account, I still thought the Faube 77M+ to be a poor caster, a bit like a Komodo Dragon. Both nice rods, but neither cast particularly well.
Ripple Fisher FS GT79H is a good chugger rod as well and it does cast very nicely for its length. Little to choose between MH79XH and this rod on the casting front I would say. The GT79H is also about 20 grams lighter than the Carpenter rod and probably about $100 less. It has a noticeably much lighter maximum lure weight though which, together with the overall lower weight of the rod, implies less carbon wraps to me. Some pros and some cons there I think. I seriously doubt you would be dissatisfied with either - top notch rods.
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I used my MH79XH for popping 190g GT3's. It was hard work and I was using a gimbal to pop but the rod held up fine. I wouldn't use anything heavier on it. They cast like a rocket though!
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Thanks again for the info Guys
I am just trying to get it all straight in my mind :-\
Yes you are right there always seems to be some form of compromise when making a decision on any rod be it for bream or GT's"!!
Sounds like the Race point has its merits all be it a on the short side at 7'5"
The Ripple Fisher sounds like it slots in between the MH 80 & the MH 79( would that be a correct assumption?? )
The question I have to ask now is how does the RF & the Race Point compare in fighting qualities against the Carpenters?? IE: at the anglers end & I assume they will all work pretty hard on the fish's end.
Apologies again for all the questions but I am struggling a bit with the concept of buying a rod without being able to bend it first.
Doug
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Hi Doug,
I cant really comment on the Carpenter fighting qualities, but from what i can gather they are very much finesse rods (if i can call it that) .. Light , slower taper blanks for working stickbaits better and make for better casting ... From holding a few , those are the qualities i can see in them which i like and why im buying one, but as mentioned , i will be using it for stickbaits mostly. :)
The Racepoint 250 is a really strong blank and plenty stopping power, if you look at the diameter of the blank where it joins at the butt , you can clearly see the walls of the blank are a lot thicker then most if not all other rods going around, at least all that ive seen. :P
In short it is a brute of a stick designed for stopping big fish in their tracks.
As you mentioned it is a bit on the short side at 7ft5, but i find it easy enough to cast, if anything ive found i just use a slightly shorter drop off when casting and that works a treat to load the stick.
Cheers
Barry
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Doug, your situation is not uncommon for those who live outside of the areas where tackle stores carry serious popping gear and you will need to either travel to hold a rod or rely on opinions.
As for certain brands of rods being better for fighting fish or better for whatever, you will find a lot of differing opinions. You will also find a lot of brand loyalty, especially right at the top end.
I remember well my first serious popping rods which were Smith and Patriot Design. I then moved on to using Carpenter and Ripple Fisher about equally and then became very much a Carpenter user with a Ripple getting an occasional outing. That does not mean that there is necessarily anything wrong to my mind with Smith, PD or Ripple rods. It is just that like quite a few others in our sport, I do believe Carpenter are the best rods... at least they are for me and my fishing styles.
For your chugging rod I don't think you would be disappointed with a Hammerhead Faube M+, a Smith HIIB Rocket or a Ripple Fisher FS 79H. I just personally prefer the Carpenter equivalents.
Also, I kind of assumed when reading you have an Ultimo, that you were looking for a high end chugging rod. Should also have said that there are some very good value for money mid-priced chugger rods out there like the Kaiser El Toro 150 and 180, and Yamaga Blanks Atlas 76/8.
I have never held a Race Point rod so cannot comment on that option.
Both the Monster Hunters and the FS79H are all tough rods with heaps of power, but they are manageable by a moderately fit and strong, normal human being, i.e. they are sensible rods, certainly not over-heavy or too stiff.
Barry, Carpenter certainly make what you might call "finesse" rods for stickbaits (eg the EP range, Coral Viper 79/40, the TBL range). Neither of the ones suggested in this thread are that - Monster Hunters are rods primarily for chuggers or massive stickbaits, with huge power down low. I do use Monster Hunter 80H for stickbaits, but only 200 grams or heavier. It does make for a good all- round rod, but I don't think anyone would choose to use MH80H for stickbaits lighter than that. As for MH79XH, you would need to be truly desperate to put a stickbait on that rod!
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I understand there is a bit of brand loyalty goes on , a bit like Saltiga vs Stella but I am trying not to let that influence my decision.
Mark, you sound like you have had the pleasure of using more high end rods than I have actually seen, you were also correct in assuming that I am after a high end chugger rod but I am willing to look at all the options before taking the plunge , the Smith is one I will have to have a bit of a study up on ::).
Sounds like the Race point may even stop me in my tracks if I wasn't carefull!!
Current short list of :MH79XH & RF79H
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Hi Doug,
What lures do you think you will want to use?
This could perhaps help us pick more specific rods, because after all, there is a big difference between working a CraftBait GT3 190g and Hammerhead G Cup for example. Some heavier lures have smaller cups with less commotion and some have bigger, different materials and compositions yield different results. We may find there is a rod perfect for a specific lure you will use most of the time.
Is casting distance important in the areas you fish? Are you a skilled caster?
At the end of the day, even with the latest developments in blank and rod technologies - I believe dedicated "popper" rods should be relatively fast action [read: stiff] (possibly bordering progressive), they also tend to be shorter in length for this purpose (there are exceptions). The slower a rod is, the more saturation you will also have to contend with as you fish heavier lures.
A "prime" bloop from one of the true chuggers is going to hurt anyone and beat-down their endurance and stamina over the course of the day.
Luke
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Hi Luke
I generally try to use the minimum size lure i think I can get away with at the time it all depends on weather conditions , casting distance required etc . I suppose if I was to generalise the lure size and profile it would be approx 115gr - 160gr with a medium cup face so not exactly huge chuggers , but wouldn't mind the rod to be capable of working the odd larger lure even if It was to saturate a bit. Casting distance can be a factor, but I don't mind putting a bit more into it if I need to.
As for casting skill , we all like to think we are OK , but I would consider myself about average!
So far its looking more & more like the MH79XH so what would you consider the action of this rod to be??
Doug
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Hi Doug ,
For the lure weights mentioned , SP80M is ideal .
Jon .
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For chuggers of that size I would not go for MH79XH - overkill. MH80H is more appropriate.
Jon and I do not disagree often :) , but I would contend that the top end of that chugger range 115 to 160, is too much for SP80M.
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Thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it very much.
I have the option on a 2nd hand MH79XH for a reasonable price and think due to my location etc that I will take the chance and hope that I wont be disappointed!!
Mark you are probably correct in saying that the 79 is a bit of overkill but from what I have picked up from you guys is that it should still be nice to fish with and should still be reasonably comfortable to fish down as well as up in the weight range (I hope?)
Thanks again
Doug
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Doug, it is definitely not a bad rod to fish with! If you have a good deal and are happy with that, then go for it.
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I can only hope!! :o