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Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Serge de Bruijn on October 01, 2012, 06:59:13 AM
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Hi,
after watching Duncan's instuctional video of the FG knot I have decided to practice as I (hopefully) have a trip coming up the end of October.
After I had tied a few I thought I'd see if they were strong enough by dead lifting a bucket filled with 10kg's of lead and adding water to it...
My first tied knots were hit and miss but most stayed in tact... but I did notice a bit of slipping and with all of them the burnt piece of leader came off.
Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
Did manage to lift 19 kgs (do not know how much drag that would be) so they seem ok but I am not too sure.
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Hello Serge,
Can you please post a picture of your FG knot so we can see how it was done up. It might help us to identify what caused the slipping etc.
Regards,
Paul
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Hi Paul,
I will try tonight... have to get them out of the bin first ;)
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Photo's :
(http://fotoalbum.roofvisforum.nl/foto/126489.jpg)
(http://fotoalbum.roofvisforum.nl/foto/126488.jpg)
(http://fotoalbum.roofvisforum.nl/foto/126487.jpg)
Hope this helps.
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Serge,
There are probably other threads in more detail about FG knots but here is my 2 cents, based on my experience.
I too learnt from Duncan's video, but since then I do things a bit differently. The main thing is that ALL of the half hitches are pulled up very tight. I don't wrap the tag end around my little finger like Duncan does, as it starts to hurt after a few minutes, and I don't feel like I can get my wraps tight enough.
Instead, I do two wraps using his method around the leader, then I carefully grab each strand of braid, pinch the hitches down so it doesn't slip off the leader, and pull both strands very tight. I hold the scrap end of the leader (the bit I am melting) between my teeth for security when pulling the braid tight.
I repeat this after every 2 hitches, until I have done about 20 or so up the leader. Then I do alternating half hitches around the leader and main braid line, again, but I pull each one up very tight.
I then carefully melt the end of the leader into a neat little ball. After that I do about 12 half hitches up the main line, to protect it from the melte end of the leader and also to reduce the hinging effect a bit.
Each knot takes me about 7 or 8 minutes to tie. A good one will look like this:
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/andrewsusani/PA020341.jpg)
Note how tight the wraps should be, not only around the leader, but also butted up against each other. When I pull them tight, I make sure they snug up against the previous wraps so there is no leader showing at all between the hitches.
Sometimes after casting one for a long time, I get a little bit of separation between the melted leader end and the hitches up the braid. I don't like the look of it much but I have caught multiple big GTs on knots like this, so it is not the end of the world. Retie it if you have doubts!
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/andrewsusani/PA020336.jpg)
I have a lot of faith in my FGs and once had an almighty struggle busting off a snagged stickbait in 10m of water. In the end the 130lb leader broke before the FG, which was done in 80lb braid. It showed no signs of pulling apart either.
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Thanks Andrew,
excellent information... will try that myself and test for better results.
I repeat this after every 2 hitches, until I have done about 20 or so up the leader. Then I do alternating half hitches around the leader and main braid line, again, but I pull each one up very tight.
How many half hitches do you use?
Serge.
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I had problems with my FG or Japanese GT knot slipping. Capt Cameron of Ocean Active showed me that as you are doing the weave up the leader every 6 or 7 wraps use braid pullers or gloves and grab both sides of the braid and tighten the weave onto the mono. Leave a long braid tag end and extra mono so you can grab it with your teeth when your pulling the braid tight.
Another way to finish off the knot is after you have done your protective half hitches do a 5 or 6 turn uni as the last finish.
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Thanks Andrew,
excellent information... will try that myself and test for better results.
I repeat this after every 2 hitches, until I have done about 20 or so up the leader. Then I do alternating half hitches around the leader and main braid line, again, but I pull each one up very tight.
How many half hitches do you use?
Serge.
Serge,
I do about 8-10 alternating half hitches up the main line.
I did have some problems with the last one or two of these unravelling through use, but I haven't had it lately. Not sure why. I tried a rizutto finish too, which used to work really well on my biminis, but it too unravelled. I think the key is to pull each half hitch up really tight.
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Serge,
I find that some people don't alternate the hitches. Make sure you alternate them, particularly on the leader prior to finishing.
Once you have formed the wraps and start the first 2 hitches of so, you should be able to "seat/test" the knot without it slipping.
It is important that the hitches are tight and alternated as they will gradually tighten further as pressure is applied to the knot.
Luke
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Hi ,
I have been practising a bit and using all the tips given with excellent results :) ... it seems I've figured it out with your help: APPLY MORE PRESSURE !
Managed to deadlift just over 23 kgs without the knot giving in: (http://fotoalbum.roofvisforum.nl/foto/126611.jpg)
Did snap the 65lbs braid when I suddenly dropped and lifted it again but that was expected.
Dead lifting 20kgs ... any idea how much drag pressure that would be comparable to?
Thanks a lot for the info!
Serge
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Serge,
If you want to know what the drag pressure is, couldn't you just use some scales with a direct pull on the reel?
Glad to see the tips have helped. I would still work on making sure each wrap around the leader is butted up tight against the next wrap, so there are no gaps where you can see the leader along the knot itself.
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On the other hand, the knot works fine and was originally tied with a little bit of space between each wrap, prior to the hitches.
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Don't know if its just me but i find it quicker tie a pr knot. is there a reason why an fg may be better than a pr?
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Serge,
If you want to know what the drag pressure is, couldn't you just use some scales with a direct pull on the reel?
Glad to see the tips have helped. I would still work on making sure each wrap around the leader is butted up tight against the next wrap, so there are no gaps where you can see the leader along the knot itself.
I have to get some scales... just curious.
At least now I know how the knot should be and I can test them before using... I will keep practicing.
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personally i skip tying the half hitches onto the main braid, i've had cases whereby the main line breaks off at that area which I suspect is due to the half hitches rubbing against the main line. This is despite tightening the half-hitches to the best of my efforts.
I have found that the key to ensuring the FG knot stays is to tighten it (with your gloves on) so that there is a grip.
casting it without tightening may cause the coils to slowly unravel.
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whilst doing the half hitches, i ensure that i do not slide the line down the main. like u said, the line tends to break off at the hitches cos u may have injured the line whilst doing the half hitch by sliding it down. Secondly i just tighten the hitches sufficiently to ensure it wont slide off leaving a gap. In any case its the wraps thats holding on to the leader and thats the most important. Wetting the line whilst tying will give u an edge as well. Just my experience :)
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Don't know if its just me but i find it quicker tie a pr knot. is there a reason why an fg may be better than a pr?
The FG is smaller and consequently casts better, it's quicker to tie for someone who's experienced tying FG's.
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Ah, i see. I usually make my pr's about 2" long when tying in PE6 to 100-150lb leaders and find no real hassles when casting although Im yet to fg line if that class. i only fg in 20-30lb braids at this point but i might try it on my PE6 outfit when i next go out chasing some seriola.
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personally, it is the FG for me regardless the line poundage and type of fishing method/purpose. weaves of between half of an inch till about 1.5inches depending on type of fishing and targeted species, and of course, the half hitches.
ultimately, i guess it is 'to each his own' when it comes down to friction knots.. as long as it holds and lands the fish, be it the FG (with or minimal half hitches), the PR, or even the Albright, or whatever knot that works for you.
Rob