GTPopping.com - Giant Trevally, GTPopping, Topwater & GT Fly-Fishing Resource
Topwater Caranx Ignobilis: Giant Trevally (GT) => Tackle & Techniques => Topic started by: Brandon Khoo on October 02, 2008, 08:21:31 AM
-
A query I just got from one of our members here just reminded me that I was going to post this a couple of weeks ago.
The issue is on leader length. When I first started GT fishing, I used a horribly unsophisticated knot which was braid to a three foot leader by way of an double uni knot. Over time, as I learned more, I went to longer leaders using knots like FG knots and then twisted leaders and then the PR knot. The one constant for me today is that my leaders are all around three metres in length.
The advantages of the longer leader are that it is more abrasion resistent should the GT pull you through unfriendly territory. My experience is that I still get done regularly irrespective of the length of the leader.
Recently in New Caledonia, I noticed that the operators of Le Poisson Banane, use a rig that is about as sophisticated as the one I used when I first started GT fishing. Their rig consists of braid to solid ring, a 300-400lb mono leader of some four feet in length to another solid ring and that's it. I was shocked but these boys ARE the experts on big GTs and as I have previously written, if there is any operator who knows the behaviour of really big GTs as well as David and Rudy, I haven't met them.
We had some extended discussions on the merit of short versus long leaders and while it is apparent that some of their territory is more conducive to shorter leaders due to its depth, they are still firmly of the view that the benefits of the long leader are overstated. One thing is clear and that is a short leader does not result in anywhere near as many aborted casts due to the line catching on the stripper guide or tip. I suppose at the end of the day, it is all a compromise.
I've been thinking of going back to trying shorter leaders for a while and see how it goes. The only thing about it is I don't particularly like casting when my index finger is holding onto braid. Too used to feeling mono there!
What length leaders are people generally using and what is your experience with being burnt off and casting re wind knots and stripper guide/tip problems?
-
I have a preference for twisties off the rocks and singles (pr knot) from a boat. I like the twisties about 12 ft long and the singles a little shorter. I feel I cast better with the leader on my finger rather then braid.
From the rocks there is always a better chance of knicking the line on rocks when retrieving. It is a lot quicker to tie another bimini then to retie a pr knot. On the rocks I like to have a couple of wraps on the reel which makes it easy to control a fish at the dying stages. A lot can still go wrong with waves and a final surge from the fish.
I also have collapsed strippers before but I find out that it occurs when I try to gain a few yards and over cast the lure. If I use a strong smooth action I seem to have fewer problems. It usually results in a better cast anyway.
What connection do they use from the braid to the ring?
-
While you are on the subject of leader lengths, what are some of the leader "systems" that people use? Connections etc.
Brandon did touch on this a little.
Just wondering what some people prefer & why?
-
I think it really comes down to a twisted leader or single strand leader. For single strand, if you want a long leader, then you need a slim connection that can be used for casting like a FG, midknot or PR knot. If on the other hand you are happy to go with a short leader that sits outside the tip, you can pretty much do anything.
I use both single strand and twisted leaders. The only failure I've had in two years has been a twisted leader that got cut at the loop - my fault for being careless and not checking it properly
-
This is a good topic. I was about to ask the same question!
Brandon, with the guys at LPB, did they experience line breakages because of sudden takes which the short mono could not absorb? What kind of drag pressures were they pushing?
Thanks, zeck
-
I used to fish short leaders but was getting done by too many fish. I use a PR knot or a GT knot now with some 4 meters of leader and to be honest do not find the leader length or knot a problem. I also am more confident because of the "insurance" factor the longer leader gives. Some places big GTs come in shallow water and yo can get them on short leaders. Some parts here in Fiji are like this but we also have areas where I would not dream of fishing less than 4 meters and my best GT has only gone 35kg. I think (and it has been said many times on this forum before) you really need to work what works in the areas you fish in. The only constant I use in this game is a 10000 Stella. Everything else has a substitute.
-
a little OT, but Sachin - 08 or the older model Stella 10000?
-
Hi Zeck, I don't know but obvously not because f they did, they would have chnaged their approach. I'm not sure what sort of drag setting they maintain.
This is a good topic. I was about to ask the same question!
Brandon, with the guys at LPB, did they experience line breakages because of sudden takes which the short mono could not absorb? What kind of drag pressures were they pushing?
Thanks, zeck
-
Has anyone tried the Bruce Horner Japanese GT Knot on a big GT?
I have given it a fair load but have yet to test it with a serious fish. Its a really slim knot and it slips through the guides like Brett Stewart through the Storm backline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_qom1E-ihA
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_qom1E-ihA)
-
What do you guys use for the PR knot - the owner bobbin or one of the other simple looking ones?
-
Ben, I don't know why it is called a Bruce Horner GT knot because it's an FG knot. I've used it quite a bit although I've largely gone to the PR knot for GTs now. I still use the FG for lighter line from time to time. Can I suggest to you that I wouldn't tie it this way. I don't feel there is anywhere near enough tension on the crossover turns. What you need to do after every couple of crossover turns is pull it really tight to ensure it bites into the mono. I would also recommend that you tie the half-hitches much tighter than you see in the youtube segment.
I hope it doesn't slip through the guides like Stewart through the Storm backline otherwise you might as well stick with twisted leaders.
-
Owner do not produce a bobbin as far as I know. I've got a MC Works one which looks like a conventional bobbin and a Shout one which looks very flash indeed but essentially does the same job. You get a bit more control with a Shout bobbin but it is a crazy price.
What do you guys use for the PR knot - the owner bobbin or one of the other simple looking ones?
-
Oops...I meant the shout one...I have the normal one I bought from jigs direct but was wonder if the shout version is worth the extra $$$$$....the normal one works fine for me most times so wasnt sure if the other helps that much more.
-
I have the Shout one. Its very bling. I'm sure it does a good job as well but its pretty flash!
Re the leader question I've been using one devised by David Carnales over on another forum and I really like it. Basically its a half twisted half single strand hybrid.
One length of 200-240lb maybe 12 ft long (will make a 9ft/3m leader), take wraps on your hand three feet or so from one end and start the twists at the other end. once its twisted allow it to form up like a normal twisty and lock it with a figure 8 knot on both strands. Tie a solid ring on the long tag end of the figure 8 knot.
This gives a twisted section for shock absorption and a single strand at the end for lower vis if fishing stickbaits. You can bimini/cats paw or spliced loop/cats paw the twisted section loop to the braid and it can be wound into the guides. Therefore a longer leader can be used. These are really quick to make. I made one on the boat in about four minutes.
Used these twice in Musandam now with no dramas except a small baracuda biting through the braid loop/leader join when I was connected to my biggest GT of the trip. I hate those things!!!!
-
I like my leaders a bit shorter than most,1 rod length. I like all the knots off the spool, seems to reduce the tendency of wraping on the stripper guide. Usually use twisties of 100-130lb connected to a short bimini loop.
I have been playing with a new knot system that uses the same join to twisty but deletes the bimini altogether. It seems to hold well in testing but yet to try it on a fish. The same knot system can also be used on single strand, again not thoroughly tested but looks promising
-
Older Stella 10000 Zeck. Trying to figure out how the new one is worth almost twice the dosh. However still have a spare rod that needs a reel so that equation may not need much more deliberating.
-
50-75cm of 100/150lb nylon double crimped to around 50cm of 300/400lb nylon shock leader or FC for sticbaits. Catspawed to bimini double this setup has never failed me! I've been well of truely reefed - in the case of some monsters i've seen this year, but the most important factor for me is that such a short leader system can well and truely cope with high shockload (assuming we are talking about 130lb+ braids) i.e. KISS! Keep it Simple Stupid!
Admittedly this may not be the best length leader setup for all situations but it definitely works great for me where I fish. I would still be inclined to fish this setup in ultra shallow water too - but again, i'm not talking about sub 40kg fish - so in this case, if haven't turned the fish's head then you could be well and truely F*****D.
Sachin, you will find that when the FA was released, the price was very comparable to this new model's price. I bet most would be begging Shimano to release a new Stella model if they hadn't already done so! At least in today's economic climate it's not so unfathomable to see the Stella priced at where they are.
-
A bit off topic here but I think the new Stella pricing has more to do with the Saltigas and Accurate Twinspin than anything else. The Stella has the best reputation but with these newer reels the best suddenly became the cheapest. Shimano is just making money and eventually we will all have to pay
because there won't be anything except the current model to buy.
-
I actually prefer to have my index finger on the braid when casting... not sure why, I think you get a much better feel that way. Also, if you're index finger is on mono, it usually means that you're leader is long enough that it wraps onto the spool, and this generally effects casting distance.
-
IMHO , the leader should be longer than the fish you intend to catch but considerations for longer leader is to enable easy tracing the fish so it can be easily released , extra long leader is necessary when one cast from the bow of the boat , any 40+ ft boat will be some 5' above the surface of the water , add the waist height and some , you are likely to get a minimum of 9' before adding cut offs . If one fish from a small boat , extra long leader isn't necessary and either mono or PE line on the index finger is personal choise .
What affect casting distance are a few ; too bulky a knot between PE n mono leader , too small diameters of the guides including the tip top , too big diameter of the PE n mono leader are among those which will reduce casting distance .
My preference are PE4 - 80 lbs. mono leader , PE5 - 100 lbs. mono leader , PE6 - 130 lbs. mono leader , PE7 - 150 lbs. mono leader and PE8 - 200 lbs. mono leader . I may add 6~8" of 400 lbs. fluorocarbon bite leader crimped on both side , when deemed necessary .
Jon .
-
hi,
Question: if i were to connect my mainline (130lb GT max) to 1 end of a swivel (leader on e other end) , what knot should i use?
-
hi,
Question: if i were to connect my mainline (130lb GT max) to 1 end of a swivel (leader on e other end) , what knot should i use?
A recipe for cracked SIC ring at the tip top guide .
Jon .
-
Anybody using wind on leaders guys?
Cheers
-
Not really recommended, Lip Song. Over a period of time, you're going to put so much stress on the SiC tip by accidentally winding it too far that it will eventually crack. if you want to fish for GTs, it is best to learn and use the direct braid to mono knots. Quite frankly, you'd be better off using a really basic bit fat braid to mono knot like an albright instead of the swivel.
If you use too short a leader, it won't be long enough to avoid that deadly tail on the GT.
hi,
Question: if i were to connect my mainline (130lb GT max) to 1 end of a swivel (leader on e other end) , what knot should i use?
-
I've seen a number of people using these over the years, Ray, but they always have had casting problems.
Anybody using wind on leaders guys?
Cheers
-
Hello Brandon,
I was reading about the knot tests before and was doing some research, on joining super lines....following up an idea I had.
I discovered that 2 seperate Spider Wire Fusion lines labelled as 24 lb breaking strain, with Bimini doubles... where joined with a 10 fold Cats Paw (Bimini Cats Paw Splice)
In Test one the join remained intact and the line broke at the hook tied with a braid snell at 25 lbs or 11.3 kg
In Test 2,
The Hook was retied using a Braid snell, which again broke but this time at 12.1 kg
The Cats paw join survived both tests....
In The next test... fresh line was used same breaking strain as above in Spider Wire Fusion 24 lb, both lines again joined with a Bimini Cats Paw Splice, only this time the hook was tied using an extra bimini double, with a silly snell to engage the scales.
This time the line broke at 12.4 kg outside of the join 14% over the lines stated breaking strain.
Apparently normal braided lines joined with a Bimini Cats Paw splice break at about 84% of the Braid lines labelled breaking Strain.
However for some reason Spider Wire Fusion is an exception to this rule.
I had thoughts about a Spiderwire Fusion Mainline with a 70 turn bimini twist, joined with a 10 fold Bimini Cats Paw splice to a Sturgeon Mono wind on leader.
My train of thought had been on the Bungy effect of the Mono Sturgeon leader, lessening the strain on the Cat Paw join, between the Spiderwire Fusion and the Dacron at the loop of the Sturgeon leader...
Do you know if anybody has tried this....?
Cheers
-
I'm not familiar with a sturgeon wnd-on leader, Ray.
All I can say on wind-ons is that they don't seem to work very well when casting.
Also, all the testing I've done incorporating shock loads nearly always sees the braid breaking somewhere along the mainline and not at the knot. GTs do terrible things to mono leaders that stretch too much. I've seen mono leader stretched to the point where it has been severely damaged.
You won't find many of us using spiderwire these days. It's isn't as round as most of the latest braids and doesn't cast as well
-
thanks brandon & jon,
think i stick back to wind on leader for now, was trying out the short leader setup & i think i share ur feeling: trigger finger on leader still felt better than on mainline.
Not really recommended, Lip Song. Over a period of time, you're going to put so much stress on the SiC tip by accidentally winding it too far that it will eventually crack. if you want to fish for GTs, it is best to learn and use the direct braid to mono knots. Quite frankly, you'd be better off using a really basic bit fat braid to mono knot like an albright instead of the swivel.
If you use too short a leader, it won't be long enough to avoid that deadly tail on the GT.
hi,
Question: if i were to connect my mainline (130lb GT max) to 1 end of a swivel (leader on e other end) , what knot should i use?