Leaders

[Andrew Walker]

Right, just let me get my apologies in early if either I have missed a sticky or a thread that will answer a dumb question from a newbie!  All this GT stuff is opening my eyes to a different style of fishing that is completeley new to me hence I am sorry if this is a basic question covered elsewhere!

I have a trip to Oman coming up in October for the big GT's (probabaly not wise to start at the top but heck!) and I have acquired a nice second hand Stella 18000SW already loaded with Jerry Brown 100lb hollow braid.  My question and confusion comes to what and how do I connect to the braid next?  I know I need a leader of heavy mono (flouro?) and have found a nice knot on Youtube that connects the mono to the braid by feeding the mono up the hollow braid a few feet and whipping the join to prevent fraying but then I read that people carry several pre-prepared leaders as clearly that join is not a knot you want to do on a rolling boat if the leader gets frayed, so how do I get my leader(s) to be quickly connected?  How long should my leaders be? Do I forget about lure clips and just connect my lure via a split ring?  Do I need a swivel on the split ring?  Then there are twisted leaders, are these just an option or an essential part of the top shot (I think thats the right term!)?

I might be dense and this is answered elsewhere or too basic for you guys but its a sharp learning curve for me!  Any help much appreciated!

[Mark Harris]

Hi Andrew

You will find the most commonly used leader set up when casting for GTs is a single strand mono shock leader. My favourites are YGK Galis and Varivas, but there are lot of options.  For 100lb braid I would suggest a shock leader in the 170 to 200 lb range.  Length of leader is a personal preference thing but I aim for about 1 metre past the tip guide with a couple of turns still on the spool.  Lots of different views on that!

Connection needs to be via a friction knot to allow easy passage of the leader through your guides when you cast.  It sounds like you have found a video explaining how to tie one of the friction knots. The two most commonly used are FG Knot (needs no tools) and PR knot (needs a bobbin tension tool).

Clips are generally avoided when fishing for big GTs due to some instances of even the best ones failing.  That being said, most of the time you would probably be alright with a heavy duty clip swivel (Duel make a good one or example), but why risk it? Sp, the general method GT anglers use is a good quality barrel swivel (eg NT or Owner) and a split ring in the 200 lb sort of range.  You can also tie your shock leader straight to the lure which gives an nice clean connection, but is not so convenient when you wish to change lures.

So, this would a be a typical set up I use:  braided mainline -> FG knot to shock leader -> Uni knot to swivel/split ring -> lure.

There are many other ways of setting up, but that is the simplest and commonest.

[Ed Nicholas]

Hi Andrew,

Mark is on the money with the leader connection, best to use either an FG or PR knot that can pass through your guides with ease. Some may advise using a bimini twist to leader but you end up with a long leader outside your eyes. This is fine for the guys with lots of experience throwing 180g lures all day but if you are newish to monster GT hunting then better to have a knot that you can have in the guides of your rod and a more comfortable leader length outside the guides.

I personally use the PR knot but i do not put as many wraps as the video's on the net and end up with a knot half as big & very strong. Experiment with this, the smaller the knot the better.

What ever knot you decide to learn/use the MOST important thing of all is to test it. I have spent hours trying to break knots with customers and mates. You should get together with Rog and the boys, wrap a towel around your arms and proceed to pull the knots as hard as you can. With PE10 & 200lb leader i cannot break the line or knot no matter how hard i pull.

On this note this is also something i recommend to anyone tying a friction knot, especially the PR with so many wraps. Before i used to do this i would only pull the knot with my hands (as tight as i could) but then after catching a monster Geet i would notice the knot had changed shape and sometimes the over hand wraps on the main line would have moved away from the knot.

The idea is to pull the knot so tight (And watch the knot move) that eventually you will see the knot stop moving (snaking) and form a solid connection. I even do this on the boat by wrapping the line around a cleat and pull on my own with a towel. I never had a knot break that i have tested and pulled 'solid', in fact i managed the same knot/leader over a 2 day period which landed 2 fish over 60kg and numerous others. 

Length of leader - I see ALOT of casts made over the season with an avergae group of 4 casting all day/every day. I also see alot of wind knots and guide wraps and it is clear that the longer the leader (especially if the knot is on the reel) then the higher number of wind knots/guide wraps. I like the knot to sit between the first/second guide and find i get less tangles.

Sod's law seems to apply to all just when we approach 'the zone' someone will get a huge wind knot!

Good luck with the above and see you soon mate. Ed

[Ben Yeo]

Hi Andrew,

I am not claiming to be an expert here, so if I need to be corrected, please wave the BS flag. I am still learning.
OK I hear you, 100 JB and you want to insert a few (3' is perfect) of Mono - I like Fisherman Stealth Leader (no need for floro leaders, floro too stiff and wind knots would be a nightmare). Whip the serve only on the JB at the end where the mono enters the braid, DO NOT cross over to the mono. Use a nail knot with 30 JB solid (or equivalent) while UNDER TENSION! for full details, Pametfisher from 360Tuna has a great write up/pics on how to.

Length of leader; I find that if I keep the joint (where mono enters the JB) between my reel and stripper guide ( that will leave about <2 feet of mono+braid on the reel, works fine for me and i find wind knots are greatly minimized).

Try JB 80 lbs instead (80 has a slightly larger diameter than 100 - go figure right? its true). I find the 80 a lot easier to work with esp the mono insertion.
You can then prepare as many as you like leaders with about 4 feet of JB from where the mono ends in the braid and if needed do a spectra hollow to hollow joint, here's the link http://www.dahoproducts.com/How_To_Use.html#2.2._Splicing_Spectra_Lines . Of course using a splicing needle on a rocking boat may not be ideal, but it can be done, see the link and you know how easy it is.

This also works if you have solid spectra on the reel, then you'll just insert the solid into the hollow 1' from the end and use the free tag end to do a 6 turn rissio to secure the hollow on the solid. I primarily use this set-up.

This set up cast like a dream. However, if you do a lot of casting or land a big fish, change the leader out at the end of each day.

Hope this helps
Good fishing!

[Andrew Walker]

Very useful replies and thanks very much to all.  I will defintely be practising and destroying some knots to test my newly discovered knot tying skills!  I dont think the simple 'uni to uni' knot  for the leader is going to cut it here!

I am nervous about attempting any type of friction knot on a rolling boat if my carefully prerpared leader gets destroyed so am I wise in splicing a loop in the end of the hollow braid main line and then taking say a 5 ft piece of hollow braid, splicing a loop on one end and tying my friction knot to mono connection?  That way if I damage my leader I can simply 'loop to loop' a new one I have prepared at home?  I see the advantage as the friction knot and loops are carefully prepared at home with just the split ring (for the lure) as the only knot to tie on the boat but the downside is that this method extends the overall leader length and creates additional connections that could be a point of weakness.  Any advice gratefully recieved.

Last numpty question is how many turns for the uni knot is the norm to connect to the split ring/swivel for the lure?

Thanks for your patience!

[Mark Harris]

For the heavy leaders you will be using for GT casting, a four turn uni knot is usually the best. Any more than that and you can get problems with the knot forming properly. 

It is all about practice with friction knots, I think I could almost tie an FG with my eyes closed now... well... probably not, but you get the point I am sure.

You will amazed how good you get with these knots. On several occasions I have caught the bottom when jigging with an FG knot set up and the knot has held while the mainline or leader has broken.

And not one to miss an opportunity to drop Ed right in it, it sounds as though you will be fishing with him in which case get him to tie them for you on the boat  .

[Dmitrii Novgorodtcev]

Hi, Mark

how many turns you make for FG knot?

[Mark Harris]

Hi Dimitri, for PE6 to PE10, I do 12 turns each way, so 12 full weaves or 24 turns.  Any more than 12, then I have found that the first ones may not tighten properly.

For lighter lines, then more turns.

[Sam Loh]

Hi Andrew, for quick replacement of destroyed leader, instead of loop to loop connection you may want to consider splicing both your hollow braid main line and the 5' hollow braid which you have pre-tied your friction knot leader into each other. That way you don't even see a loop to loop connection and is much faster way of connecting a new leader as compare to splicing up a new loop at your main line on rolling boat, but make sure you have at least 2' of braid into each side.

Tight line in Oman. I will be there in Nov too.

Sam

[Robert Tapert]

I have never used the hollow to hollow splice for GT or  kingie fishing but I use it tuna fishing with live bait all the time.  The bait swims better with that smaller connection. The loop to loop puts more line in the water.

I used to be able to do the splice with a needle and piece of 27 lb wire on a rocking boats in less than a minute.

But I only use the FG knot fishing for GT. Also splicing 100 lb is hard. I always used 130 or even 200 because it is much easier to work with.

I am in Oman at the end of November. Good luck to us all!

Rob

[Andrew Walker]

Thank you Sam and Robert!  The straight splice looks simple enough so the plan is to make up the leaders at home and splice braid to braid if/when the first leader gets ruined.  I might change out the 100lb for 130lb hollow braid as I dont think I am wise trying to splice 100lb 'main' line braid to a 130lb 'leader' braid. 

Good luck to you both and hope you nail a good 'un!

[Mark Harris]

Andrew, I  am not sure of the wisdom of changing to a heavier hollow line weight which will not cast anything like as well, just for the sake of splicing. Seems like the wrong solution to me to a relatively simple problem.  I would say you are better off going with the friction knot and sacrificing 10 minutes here and there for the trying time.

[Andrew Walker]

Good point Mark and thanks.

[Robin Loi]

hi andrew, i guess most importantly, it's to each his own when it comes down to the connection knot between the main line and the leader. some prefer splicing, some prefers the PR whilst most will go with the FG. personally, for me, i've been using the FG knot since day 1 and regardless the type of fishing, it's always the FG knot (the number of wraps and half-hitches will vary). For me, splicing does indeed looks very smooth as it's literally knot-less but no matter how strong the knot is, once the monster pulls and pulls and goes right into the reef; the last thing i'd wanna do is to splice on a rolling boat.

to connect to the lure, my set-up would be PE line -> FG knot to single strand leader -> AG Chain knot to split ring to lure.

Cheers

[Dmitrii Novgorodtcev]

Hi Dimitri, for PE6 to PE10, I do 12 turns each way, so 12 full weaves or 24 turns.  Any more than 12, then I have found that the first ones may not tighten properly.

For lighter lines, then more turns.

Thank you, Mark