New to topwater fishing, advice on leaders and rigs please.

[Troy Ralph]

Hi all,

First post - and I'm new to the world of popping and stickbaiting so please go easy.

I'm looking for a little advise for my first set up (on a budget), that will coincide with my LBG live bait / ballooning rig.

Over the Australian summer I travel to NSW and love having a fish off a few rock ledges, it's not GT country but rather Kingfish and Tuna.

With my current set up I catch a live bait and float it out not too far from the rock ledge (while attracting other bait fish with burly) - once done I wait. This can sometimes be troublesome as some days catching that live bait can be a royal pain in the a** (either not around or a bigger predator is in the area), or the wind is just not working in my favour. So I'm after a top-water set up while I wait or if I'm unlucky with the live bait or wind.

As I said previously I'm on a budget as I'm a student and also no matter how hard one tries, your rock gear at some point or another goes for a roll.

So far I got myself a "Noeby Infinite Popping" rod, 8'6", PE 4 - 8, Max. casting weight 200g (~$160 AUD), on it I have a Fin-Nor Lethal 100 reel (I've made a few minor modifications to improve the line lay), with PE 8 braid (I've measured it at ~ 0.485 mm).

Now the biggest problem I'm having or questioning is leader and poppers/stickbait rigs?

1. Is the PE8 stated above too heavy, should I go for a lighter line (PE 6 / 6.5) to try and get a longer cast?

2. What type and strength leader should I use?
Should I make these twisted leaders I've read about, if so what strength leader should I start with? OR should I just go with the conventional (non-twisted) leader (80lb or 100lb)?

3. What are some brands of leaders you recommend?
So far I was considering Xzoga Taka SK as I love their Takalon monofilament.

4. How long do you make your leaders?
Does the connecting knot between the braid and leader sit outside the end guides when casting? Also what knots do you recommend? Do you have any tips to quickly and freely change between lures without having to cut up or re-tie rigs that can be timely?

5. Any recommendations on lures / poppers to start with?
So far I've acquired a couple Shimano Ocea stickbaits 185 mm / 85 g (got them on special) which I've set up with the Baker rig (Owner SJ-41 and Shout Kudako hooks - I don't go cheap on hooks!).

Cheers and thanks for any help in advance!

- Troy

[Amr Kehila]

I'm going to try this for you but i want other members to jump in here and correct me please:

1. Is the PE8 stated above too heavy, should I go for a lighter line (PE 6 / 6.5) to try and get a longer cast?

You already have a long rod which should aid in casting longer distances with the right technique so perhaps try using PE8 and if its too much for you; change down.

2. What type and strength leader should I use? Should I make these twisted leaders I've read about, if so what strength leader should I start with? OR should I just go with the conventional (non-twisted) leader (80lb or 100lb)?

For a beginner i would use a twisted leader system so its really easy to change and requires no knots!
Easy:

3. What are some brands of leaders you recommend? So far I was considering Xzoga Taka SK as I love their Takalon monofilament.

Fisherman Super Stealth is the only thing i've personally used for my heavy tackle fishing.

4. How long do you make your leaders? Does the connecting knot between the braid and leader sit outside the end guides when casting? Also what knots do you recommend? Do you have any tips to quickly and freely change between lures without having to cut up or re-tie rigs that can be timely?

I make my leader knot sit between the reel and the stripper guide or between the stripper guide and second guide; weather its an FG knot or using a twisty leader i do the same and i make the 'drop' as long as needed to cast well; this will take you some trial and error. FG knot is a good go-to and 4-turn uni for terminal tackle attachments.

5. Any recommendations on lures / poppers to start with? So far I've acquired a couple Shimano Ocea stickbaits 185 mm / 85 g (got them on special) which I've set up with the Baker rig (Owner SJ-41 and Shout Kudako hooks - I don't go cheap on hooks!).

Get some River 2 Sea Dumbell Pops in the largest size or Halco Rooster Haymakers in the largest size for the cheapest options for poppers; upgrade the hooks. There are too many cheap popper/stickbait brands that i have time to list so perhaps some others can help.

[Troy Ralph]

Thank you Amr, much appreciated!

I'll certainly look into your suggestions.

[Trevor Skinner]

Troy,

I'm going to bring this back to the top since I'm sure that quite a few of our members can help and chime in.

Chasing kingies and tuna from the ledges is not something I've done but I know there are guys on here who do it on a regular basis.

Regards,


Trev   

[Yoshikazu Devantier]

Depending on the kg of the fish that are the in the area, I would than choose what PE to go with!
I typically use single leader, PE8 I'll use 170lb and up! Once again depending on lure set up and size of fish! I change to twisted leader if rocks/reef are present. I have only used Sami's(Saltywater tackle) twisted leader system. He had a how to tie on his website. I use Fisherman and Varivas Avani casting shock leader(Maguro)! I use PR knot to start when I'm rigging up before a trip. And go to FG when out fishing and have a line break or need to change the leader fast and get back into the action. I set the length of my leader by having the knot just around the spool and tie on a swivel around the 3rd or 4th guide! So basically my leader is the length of the rod from the spool with a foot or two past the tip! I prefer to cast off the leader and not the line!! Using the swivel at the end of the leader lets you quickly change lure via a split ring!! Tacklehouse and Souls devil one are good lures at a good price!!!

[Mark Richie]

5. Any recommendations on lures / poppers to start with?
So far I've acquired a couple Shimano Ocea stickbaits 185 mm / 85 g (got them on special) which I've set up with the Baker rig (Owner SJ-41 and Shout Kudako hooks - I don't go cheap on hooks!)

Hi Troy,

I really don't think any of the advice given to you will help your cause until you balance out your lure better! Running 3 fairly heavy singles with matching split rings off an 85g lure is going to destroy the action. I know nothing about Ocea sticks but if they're supposed to be a floating lure, I'm under the impression that it no longer floats with that kind of hardware on it? I'm happy to be proven wrong however.

I'd suggest a 4/0 or 5/0 st66 on the belly and 1 sj-41 off the back in 7/0, maybe 9/0 max. The fish your likely to encounter off the rocks in that part of the world don't need massive hooks IMO. I don't find baker rigs necessary until you start targeting truly large species.

Again, I'm happy to be proven wrong!

Rich

[Amr Kehila]

5. Any recommendations on lures / poppers to start with?
So far I've acquired a couple Shimano Ocea stickbaits 185 mm / 85 g (got them on special) which I've set up with the Baker rig (Owner SJ-41 and Shout Kudako hooks - I don't go cheap on hooks!)

Hi Troy,

I really don't think any of the advice given to you will help your cause until you balance out your lure better! Running 3 fairly heavy singles with matching split rings off an 85g lure is going to destroy the action. I know nothing about Ocea sticks but if they're supposed to be a floating lure, I'm under the impression that it no longer floats with that kind of hardware on it? I'm happy to be proven wrong however.

I'd suggest a 4/0 or 5/0 st66 on the belly and 1 sj-41 off the back in 7/0, maybe 9/0 max. The fish your likely to encounter off the rocks in that part of the world don't need massive hooks IMO. I don't find baker rigs necessary until you start targeting truly large species.

Again, I'm happy to be proven wrong!

Rich

I missed that completely! Thanks for helping there!

[Troy Ralph]

5. Any recommendations on lures / poppers to start with?
So far I've acquired a couple Shimano Ocea stickbaits 185 mm / 85 g (got them on special) which I've set up with the Baker rig (Owner SJ-41 and Shout Kudako hooks - I don't go cheap on hooks!)

Hi Troy,

I really don't think any of the advice given to you will help your cause until you balance out your lure better! Running 3 fairly heavy singles with matching split rings off an 85g lure is going to destroy the action. I know nothing about Ocea sticks but if they're supposed to be a floating lure, I'm under the impression that it no longer floats with that kind of hardware on it? I'm happy to be proven wrong however.

I'd suggest a 4/0 or 5/0 st66 on the belly and 1 sj-41 off the back in 7/0, maybe 9/0 max. The fish your likely to encounter off the rocks in that part of the world don't need massive hooks IMO. I don't find baker rigs necessary until you start targeting truly large species.

Again, I'm happy to be proven wrong!

Rich

Thanks Rich! I've fixed that up.

[Troy Ralph]

Depending on the kg of the fish that are the in the area, I would than choose what PE to go with!
I typically use single leader, PE8 I'll use 170lb and up! Once again depending on lure set up and size of fish! I change to twisted leader if rocks/reef are present. I have only used Sami's(Saltywater tackle) twisted leader system. He had a how to tie on his website. I use Fisherman and Varivas Avani casting shock leader(Maguro)! I use PR knot to start when I'm rigging up before a trip. And go to FG when out fishing and have a line break or need to change the leader fast and get back into the action. I set the length of my leader by having the knot just around the spool and tie on a swivel around the 3rd or 4th guide! So basically my leader is the length of the rod from the spool with a foot or two past the tip! I prefer to cast off the leader and not the line!! Using the swivel at the end of the leader lets you quickly change lure via a split ring!! Tacklehouse and Souls devil one are good lures at a good price!!!

Thanks Yoshikazu, that's very helpful.

[Troy Ralph]

Hey guys,

Just thought I would update you or more importantly inform anyone looking to setup the 185 mm Shimano OCEA stickbaits as they don't come with hooks and I had a little trouble sourcing information from the net.

I ended up going with a single Shout Ringed Kudako 5/0 (could have gone a Decoy JS-1 5/0) on the tail and two Owner SJ-41 7/0 (baker rig) on the belly.

Also purchased some ST-66TN in 4/0 but in my opinion seemed a little too big and heavy, so if anyone is wanting to go with the trebles the ST-66TN in 3/0 are probably best.

Also need to lay reference and thanks to Rich from elite tackle for helping me out.

I'll have some photos up sometime (more so for anyone looking to deck some out and so I can finally contribute to the forum rather than just reading).

Cheers!

[Andrew Hurley]

Hey Dude

Phyto to phyto if you want some sinking sticks I've had a good run on the Kakoda gold 110g and Tacklehouse Contact Britt CBP 145g sinking for Nth BFT. Kingies on Sebile Stickshads and splashers. The usual online stores stock them.

Any how have fun