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Greg Burt

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Shoalwater bay Q & A.
April 25, 2007, 08:58:15 AM
I didn't want to clutter Bernie and George's top reports. ;)

 Do you guys think there was any difference in hookups between trebles and singles ?, as some pics show some prominent Singles.
 Any idea why the pencil poppers weren't successful ?.

 GPB
Greg 'FFF' Burt

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Shoalwater bay Q & A.
April 25, 2007, 10:38:01 AM
I've been amazed by how observant you guys are! That's the third time I have been asked that question now.

The Nomad guys swear by single hooks. They believe, based on their experience over the past few years that the hookup rate is almost as good but that they lose far fewer fish. That is, they have far fewer fish throw the hook in comparison to trebles. They are also of the view that the singles do less damage to the mouth of the fish.

I posted a thread on this a while ago. I firmly believe that you get more hookups with trebles but that singles hold better once the fish is hooked. Trebles also get deformed far more than singles if they end up in the wrong spot in the fish's mouth.

One interesting observation which both George and I made and interestingly enough, Damon also has the same view is that often, the fish grab the lure in their mouths and swim off. The reason why they swim off so quickly is not because they feel the hook but because they are trying to get away from the rest of the fish in the school so they can find the time to wallow the fish head first. We noticed this on a few occasions but none more vividly for me than the last GT I encountered on the trip. the fish took the popper right next to the boat  and you could see it firmly clamped in the mouth. the first thing one of the other fish did after it grabbed the popper was try to snatch the popper from its mouth. It then charged off with the whole school in hot pursuit.

When they realise it is not something to eat, they will let go and I think that often, the fish is never really hooked at all - only firmly clamped in the mouth. Check out any lure which has caught a couple of fish and look at the damage around the head and how deep the teeth marks are. I persdonally think that many of the drop-offs in the first few seconds are never actually hooked at all.

All of that said, I run my poppers with a treble off the middle and a single or a blade off the back. Trebles have worked well for me and I like them but the single off the back is very effective too. I haven't been converted to the single system yet but i think George is closer to conversion than me!

We did come up with a new hook arrangement system during the week and that is to run two singles off the same split ring. If I have to give someone credit for this, it is Tim Baker, a long term guide with Nomad. We were sitting around getting our gear ready one evening when he saw me putting a single on the back. He said he had been thinking about running two singles on the split ring so we rigged a couple up like that with SJ-41s. The next day, Damon had one of these running off the tail on his stickbait and a jobu up front when he said he didn't like the way the Jobu pointed upwards. I suggested he go with another double on the middle of the lure. It is amazing - in the water, the singles spread out on each side and the lure is much better balanced as a result. On testing, it's an absolute winner with as a tremendous a hookup rate. The only problem we found (and I admit it is a small sample to try to draw any empirical evidence from) is that the gold hooks like the SJ-41s are a magnet for spanish mackeral and long toms. Damon got snipped more times than anyone running this rig. On the other hand, long toms are notoriously difficult to hook (who wants to?!) but Damon hooked up on them continuously with the two single on a split ring system.

For my next trip, I wil rig all my stickbaits this way before going.

Pencil poppers - bloody hell, I worked them pretty hard for barely a follow. They've worked for me in the past but I couldn't get a strike with one from a GT. The only thing that was attacking them were queenies that were hitting anything in the water. Would anyone else like to comment on how effective pencil poppers have been for them?
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Greg Burt

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Re: Shoalwater bay Q & A.
April 25, 2007, 10:12:47 PM
Bernie and George, your pics save a 1000 words, tops!!.
In the 2nd photo of Bernie's report it shows Jason [I think?] hooked up at the back of a dory, it looks like he's using the Nomad Stella/T-Curve combo and then shows pics of him and a good GT. If so, how did it compare to the top line rods?.
 In Georges photos of Ed and a GT the rod being used looks lite, can you guys tell me what rod it was Please ?.
 Without practical knowledge this is helping my decision making of what rods to buy. :-\
 
PS: Bernie, do you know if Nomad still do one day trips to Fraser?.

    Greg
Greg 'FFF' Burt

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Shoalwater bay Q & A.
April 26, 2007, 08:11:20 AM
that's right - Jason is using a 10000/T-Curve combination. I should point out that the next day of GT fishing we were together in a dory, I offered him my Carpenter WV and he grabbed it for the rest of the trip. I normally set up one outfit with a stickbait and one with a popper but I was happy to loan him the rod.

Liam continued to use one of these combinations for the rest of the trip. Both of these guys landed good fish on T-Curve. the rods bend all the way through to the but on a good fish but they handle it well. The only disadvantage is obvious - on a really good fish, if a rod bends too much, you simply can't exert enough control over it but what the photos do prove is that the T-Curves are capable of catching good sized GTs.

In the case of Ed, the photos are deceptive. Ed uses two rods - a Tokara and a WV so it is one or the other. Hard to tell from the photo but I think it is the WV.

As far as Fraser is concerned, I don't know if they do one day trips. It is a long way to go to Hervey Bay for one day's fishing though. On the other hand, if your primary focus is for popping, I'd strongly encourage you to look at Shoalwater instead of Fraser. Fraser is hard work - it's 3 hours or so to the fishing grounds (so three hours back) which means if you do a one day charter, that's something like 6 hours travelling. if you do overnight, they wander back and anchor at Fraser island for the night.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Greg Burt

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Re: Shoalwater bay Q & A.
May 02, 2007, 07:48:54 PM
Bernie, what size and type of twisted leader were used and did any stand out ?. ???
 
Greg 'FFF' Burt

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Re: Shoalwater bay Q & A.
May 02, 2007, 10:15:16 PM
The twisted leaders used ranged from 100lb to 150lb mono. We saw many of these broken after being dragged over rocky bottoms and bommies. Personally, I'm not sure it makes that the breaking strain makes that much difference. A thicker diameter and more abrasion resistant line would be the way to go. A very tough mono leader like Penn 10X is ideal.

In terms of length, I think 3, maybe 4 metres. Any longer than that would really start to compromise your casting.

In terms of type, we saw a number of variation. The Nomad boys generally used the simplest ones which were a twisted leader tied direct to the swivel. Some of their twisteds barely had any twists in them as they did them by hand in the evenings!

Some of us had twisteds where the leader had been woven back to form a segment with four strands, others had a single strand of heavy mono attached to the end of the twisted leader. The joint between the single strand and the twisted was joined either by a crimp or in my case, by a nail knot.

In summary, they all worked but they also all copped a smacking!
If it swims; I want to catch it!