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Luke Wyrsta

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 08, 2013, 04:05:26 PM

Luke assume your finger is not on the mono when casting? what mainline are you using of late?

Hi Andy,

That's right, my double is usually between stripper and 2nd guide. The braid does wear but it's also a good reminder to retie your double or FG knot and avoid degradation and fatigue.

Use both Varivas GT and Jerry Brown Hollow - 80-130lb.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 08, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
Luke, do you remember the leader system that David and Rudy use? Only about one metre long, single strand 300lb, two grommets and they swear by that system
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Mark Harris

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 08, 2013, 07:21:44 PM
Really, really interesting thread this one.

Luke, I do get your well made points about switching leader styles according to terrain and the mood of the fish.

Also the wind knot issue is major factor. There is no doubt in my mind that longer leader and long friction knot equals the potential for more wind knots especially with PE8 line and smaller.  Andy makes the point about the body of the friction knot warping the leader, and I am sure that is a big contributing factor to wind knots.

I think casting styles are a big influence as well though. Since being forced by injury to switch to a vertical overhead casting action, I get way, way less wind knots than I used to, with no other change in the set up.  This is true from PE2 through to PE10 lines. I think it probably has something to do with the plane of the line.  There are of course downsides to an overhead, vertical style as well (mostly lost distance).

With friction knots I would urge everyone who uses them to check for fatigue regularly during the day, and to consider not fishing two consecutive days without tying a new one. If I am on a multi-day trip, I re-tie all my friction knots each evening (assuming they have been cast a bit of course).

Great insights in this thread and I hope they keep coming.

Sami Ghandour

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 08, 2013, 08:52:41 PM
Sami that photo in your earlier post shows a twisty with a single strand of mainline coming out of the loop, can you describe this connection, looks like a cats paw but I don't see any loop as in the other pictures using the bimini.

Andy,
The main line you are referring to is a Hollow line with a loop at the end, i make my loop very small in diameter so they are almost invisible at the finish,
my connection when i use Hollow line is all loop to loop.
the failure of the FG knot is based on catching up to the guides, through excessive casting the line become frayed and all what you need a solid hit from a good size fish and your line will depart, yes it is for sure better then the PR knot but the problem remain the same,
eliminate friction and you are in business  :)
I use the twisty to be my shock resistance as it stretch a bit and i need that forgiveness, my twisty don't run to the spool, i have it set to start toward the middle of the rod and when i cast i will have my finger on the hollow line, which is now 260lb.
i had never ripped any guide out and i don't cast less then 150g lures and at most of the time i am using 200g and above, so you can imagine the load that the line is taking, no issue and no problem to speak off,
i fished with Luke in Socotra and we both used the twisty for 6 days of fishing, we had not had any issue or problem to speak off.
by the end of the day we fish what we feel comfortable with.

Andy Rowe

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 09, 2013, 01:20:57 PM
Hi Sami,

Thanks for the clarification, sounds like a good system, I like the sound of the 260lb hollow as an intermediate between the twisty and the mainliine. Thats the other main advantage of the twisty it's ability to take shock loads better.

Cheers
Set the ray to GeeT

Nick Bowles

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 09, 2013, 03:37:08 PM
This is definitely one of the most talked/argued about points that we have certainly had when on trips. We are lucky enough to have hundreds of clients on our boats and caught thousands of GTs to test and we get to see a lot of different tackle and set ups. I have tried most of the set ups at one stage or another but I have always gone back to the same set up for GTs which is a short length of about 1.2ms on heavy mono leader, which I set up with a 25 turn bimini in the braid and a Yucatan (GT) Knot.

Casting any leaders or knots through the guides is going to cause a problem somewhere along the line and with all twisted/wind leader knots we have seen the same main issues in differing degrees which is guide wraps, tip wrap, guide damage, wind knots and damage of the braid just above the knot or totally snapping off the lure. No matter what knot you make the braid is going to travel at a different speed or momentum to the leader going through the guides initially when you cast so you are going to get knots either on the guides or in braid. One of the main issue is the weakening of the braid when it comes out the top guide is like whiplash and weakens the braid. So you have to check and possibly change leaders and knots a few times a trip.

I also agree with Luke that it also depends on where you fishing and the terrain. But for me I prefer the short leader out side the top guide as I recon you get about 15-20% more casting distance as you not casting knots and thick leader through the guides and also the system I think is stronger as you have less joins/knots and weak points as you have straight piece of leader, plus you don;t have to change the leader to often. I've used this leader for about 6 years and never had a leader failure or a fish break off above the leader  because the leader is to short. So far this season I have the same leader on my PE10 spool since Sept which I fished Hallaniyat x 2, Socotra, Musandam x 3 and Tanzania. The best part is I can tie this leader on the boat in about 2 minutes from start to finish if I do get reefed or something goes wrong. The biggest problem is if you not used to this leader you have a long drop back from the top of the rod to the lure so casting is totally different to a wind on leader.

As Sami said there is no right or wrong when it comes to knots and how you set up your tackle and it comes down to what you confident with and can tie.

Cheers,
Nick






Mark Harris

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 09, 2013, 05:08:12 PM
............ there is no right or wrong when it comes to knots and how you set up your tackle and it comes down to what you confident with and can tie.

I think that is the key. It is though very interesting to hear such different opinions on this subject.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
February 11, 2013, 07:26:41 AM
It probably doesn't matter if outside the guides. I will post up LPB rig when I have some time to do one up.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Adrian Gumban

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
March 13, 2013, 04:04:10 PM
Is it possible to have say a 3m single strand leader & at the last say 1-2feet have it twist back onto itself with maybe a crimp to finish it off? I guess it would be like a cross between the two. The twisted section provides a bit more stretch plus bite protection but also stays well outside the guides. Never done anything like this myself, I just thinking out aloud. If its been done or mentioned before just ignore everything I just said lol.

John Sykes

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Adrian,
   I use this method for Barra in the Dams when slow rolling Soft Plastics, inhalation is a big issue so instead of resorting to 100lb straight through I was using 50lb single twisted for 30cm at the end, worked a treat and cast much better than a full twistie.   I've even done it in the last 6 inches of 20lb Flouro using a double overhand knot to secure it when I ran out of 40lb Chasing Barra in Hinchinbrook one day and the 20lb wasn't cutting it, saved the day and is a serious solution to abrasion when fishing ultra finesse for Barra.

Thomas Maxted

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
December 15, 2014, 02:47:39 PM
Hi Luke
I was sitting at home trying to create a twisted leader with 130lb leader I eventially came up with my own way. I have some pictures. Do you think it would work?

The completed rig (above)

This picture is of the swivel with the end of the twisted leader connected by a uni knot and on the left the braid connected by a catspaw.

The loop at the end of the leader where the lure will be added.
I also made this rig without the bite leader section.
Thomas

Luke Wyrsta

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
December 18, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
Thomas,

It would be wise to avoid the swivel.

One of the advantages of the twisted leader is that it is a "smooth" and near "seamless" connection that can run through the rod guides. The swivel is not going to go through the guides and/or will crack your guides.

Another reason to avoid the swivel is to not draw undue attention from Mackerel and other toothy species!

Thomas Maxted

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
December 18, 2014, 11:19:36 AM
Hi Luke
The only reason there is a swivel is because I don't know any knots to connect the end of the twisted leader to the braid.
I have experienced leatherjackets eating swivels and bulky knots while jigging in my home turf ( the shoalhaven)

Luke Wyrsta

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
December 18, 2014, 11:24:19 AM
Thomas,

Try this (attached).

Practice by using some offcuts (you can tie triple surgeon knots in the braid/PE just to simulate a bimini loop end...and likewise, just make a loop style knot in some leader material).

Thomas Maxted

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Re: Twisted Leaders: Instructions + Diagrams
December 18, 2014, 06:36:26 PM
Thanks Luke
I still have two problems I cant find a loop knot that can fit through the guides without destroying them also every time I tighten the knot the braid slips to the top of the loop and if you applied pressure the braid would surely cut through the leader.
Thanks for all your help and I sure have lots to learn about rigs/knots.