the visability of twisted leaders

[Gavin Ng]

hey guys, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on how visible the twisted leaders are to fish? I know it doesnt really matter when popping as the leader spends most of its time above the water, but what about when throwing sinking stickbaits and diving minnows? Does anyone use twisted leader for these lures? and if so, do the fish shy off the bite?

I'm not fortunate to have a separate stickbait and popper setup, so I have been using single strand connected via a pr knot for both poppers and stickbaits, but i do want to try twisted leader as the connection is slim and it will cast through the guides nicer.

Just wanted to hear your thoughts.

Cheers

[Jon Li]

Gavin ,

Single strand leader will cast further than twisted leader , anyday . Just listen to the noise of the twisted leader makes when it goes thru those guides , that gives you the indication how much friction it makes thus more resistance . In your case , try to use other connection between the PE line and the leader , myself have been using MidKnot since day one and confident with this knot .

As for visibility of the leader , in my setup I use a short " bite " leader which stays outside the tip top guide , when this bite leader has been abraded I notice decrease in strike rate when using sinking stickbait . Now my observation is not conclusive but I do change the bite leader at least twice a day , more so if I fish sailfish and in such case , as often as 6 times a day . 

Jon .

hey guys, I just wanted to hear your thoughts on how visible the twisted leaders are to fish? I know it doesnt really matter when popping as the leader spends most of its time above the water, but what about when throwing sinking stickbaits and diving minnows? Does anyone use twisted leader for these lures? and if so, do the fish shy off the bite?

I'm not fortunate to have a separate stickbait and popper setup, so I have been using single strand connected via a pr knot for both poppers and stickbaits, but i do want to try twisted leader as the connection is slim and it will cast through the guides nicer.

Just wanted to hear your thoughts.

Cheers

[Andrew Poulos]

For my local fishing , I have stopped using a twisted leader. I found for sinking gars and lures it was more visible. I use them if I have to replace the leader as I dont do the PR on the rocks, or if fishing in an area where its really rough terrain.

[Gavin Ng]

thanks for the replies guys, the issue ive been getting is that sometimes, i get line wrapped over the top guide, so im not really sure if the issue is the knot hitting the second last guide or what not?

otherwise the pr knot does cast quite well, sometimes you do hear it knocking through the guides, it sounds painful but does this have the ability to damage the sic guides?

i understand that the twisted has more resistance but was always under the impression the connection is much more slim than the actual pr knot itself, thus less chance of knocking through the guides or wrapping past the top guide. I'm not quite sure why the braid wraps over the tip does anyone have any ideas?

And for those who are using bite leaders, how are you connecting them? uni to uni on a swivel or just double uni from twisted to single strand? or crimp? just want to know the best way to connect them.

Cheers

[Jon Li]

I crimp the bite leader both ends n using splitring to attach to the eyelet of the lure while tying directly to the other end , as for line wrapping on the stripper guide , silicon line spray help to improve the situation , don't need to spray all the line just the top portion in the spool .

Jon . 

[Gavin Ng]

thanks John, i was also told it wasnt necessary to use propery fishing line silicon spray and that any silicon spray would do. Is this true? if so can you recoemnd me a good spray to use?

The line is not wrapping around the stripper, it's wrapping over the tip. i.e- when i cast, a loop of line goes over the tip, not quite sure why this is happening.

Thanks

[Jon Li]

Hi Gavin ,

Tip wrap happens when leader is to thick or knot is too bulky for a particular size of tip top guide , a momentarily snag caused by leader or knot at the tip causes the PE line to overtake it and cause the tip wrap , pretty much the same as wrap on the stripper guide . To remedy this , use thinner leader n smaller knot .

On the silicon spray , I dont take any chances , I use the silicon spray from the PE line manufacturer , have 1 can which have lasted me for 3 years and still some in it . Not much to spray , only a few meters suffice .

Best regards : Jon . 

[Chuen Fan]

Gavin, how long are you tying your PR knot? I had a friend who used to tie his pretty long, untill he encountered the same problem as you. If you are tying it long, try it a bit shorter. Also what class PE are you attatching to what pound leader?

On your question on sprays, Smith/varivas (forgotten which one it is)  make a line conditioning spray for PE lines.

[Greg Burt]

Barndon, did yourself or Malcolm test the Armor All theory ?

Jon, do you spray the exposed line on the Spool ?

[Jon Li]

Barndon, did yourself or Malcolm test the Armor All theory ?

Jon, do you spray the exposed line on the Spool ?

Hi Greg ,

Yes I do , just the exposed line because once after the PE line clears the guides , it does not matter anymore . If the leader is still attached to the line on the spool , I let the leader out first so only the PE line get exposed to the spray .

Jon .

[Greg Burt]

Thanks Jon, that makes things much clearer in it's use as I thought you needed to coat the whole line, my little spray bottle will now go with me always  

[Greg Burt]

Gavin, in answering your original question,
I use a twisted leader most of the time and have found nothing to say it is a definite put off when using Stickbaits, and I sometimes use them deep water jigging as well although I do use a FC bite leader about 800mm long which must help.
 Damon Olsen ran some articles on Jigging in a Aus fishing mag a few years ago, in the article where instructions for making Twisted leaders for Jigging, I queried him on it a couple of years ago as he now uses the single strand for less visibility.
I personily don't beleave it makes a great difference due to the lure being made the focal point, but when the bite is shut down it might make all the diffence.

[Gavin Ng]

thanks for the replies guys, i like to have my leader length so that the lure outside the guides is where my reel seat is, and the knot is just outside of the spool, that way, there's not not much resistance from the leader comming off the spool. I'll do some test casting on twisted vs pr and see which one cast better- the actual connection on the twisted is more streamline but the leader itself is more restrictive on the twisted. 

The pr knot i tie is only 25-30cm long, and im connecting 60lb fins to 130lb black magic tough trace. It's no big deal with the braid going over the braid, but it's very annoying, and i get parinoid that it's damaging my braid.

Cheers

[Andrew Poulos]

25cm long PR knot...? or did you mean 2.5 cm. Mine is only 2cm or so long depending on how well I tie it.

[Gavin Ng]

Sorry Andrew I mean 25-30mm what weight main line and leader are you connecting?

Cheers