Hammerhead stickbaits

[Angus Hulme]

Some very good points raised there guys, thanks for all your imput.

I completely understand that the design of the lure, and how much R & D goes into it's performance and production, are factors in lure pricing, so much so that it went without saying in my original post (that's my bad, sorry).

It just seems to me that having made a reasonable number of lures myself, and had some success on them, I tend to think that GT's aren't perhaps as fussy as many believe, and maybe the lure designs required for catching these great fish are not as advanced as boutique tackle manufacturers may have us believe. Certainly I am not professing to know a huge amount about GTs, but my observations thus far have pointed towards this notion.

Another issue raised in the above posts is lure copying.......every lure is designed for the same purpose, obviously to catch fish, but in order to do that, some lures might need a certain feature to best achieve this. So if a lure X has this certain feature, which has already been used in another brand or model of lure Y, does it make lure X a copy of lure Y? Obviously, blatant rip-offs like the example Brandon mentioned are another kettle of fish, and not fair on the original manufacturer (in this case Chris), who put in the hard yards to get the best lure design he possibly could onto the market.

So is using the features of one lure in a new lure classed as 'copying'? When does a lure become different enough to not to be called a "copy"? Or is that like asking 'how long is a piece of string'?

Cheers
Angus

[Brandon Khoo]

Angus, you are raising a topic that has been discussed before and it is one where people have differing views.

I think you are giving little credit to what goes into a popper. I've caught a GT before on a lure made from aluminum foil with sinkers in it. There are obviously times when GTs are so aggressive they'd hit anything in the water. I have also fished for them on many occasions where they were very particular and would only look. On these occasions, one lure will usually finally illicit a hit. I wonder why on nearly every occasion, that has been some ridiculously expensive offering. I don't think the small boutique manufacturers are asking you to be believe anything. Their reputations have generally all been built by word of mouth.

Over the past decade, I think I have used just about every known popper in the industry and different poppers suit different conditions and there are subtleties which are important. A great example is the difference between a 135g Sea Frog and a 140g Sea Frog. Why would Carpenter make two model that are 5g difference in weight? It's very simple and would become immediately apparent should you be fishing in rough water. Carpenter didn't design this characteristic into the lure by chance.

In really rough conditions, no popper will stay in the water better than a Hammerhead I Cup. It's combination of weight and length means it can stay down in the water where other poppers are being pulled out all over the place. For its size and weight, no popper will stay in the water better yet be easier to pop than a Fullscale 200. One of my favourite all-time poppers are the SS Glans and Manatee because I have just caught so many fish on them. Their design permits them to be popped aggressively without them flying out of the water.

i don think it is fair to simply express that you don't think that lures in this industry are as advanced as in other forms of fishing when you haven't got the experience with lures at that end or seen the GT popper industry evolve over the years.

You have GT fishing and you have GT fishing. If the areas you fish are loaded with 15kg GTs that hit anything, then you can probably get away with using even Luares lures (I reckon that would be a stretch though). That said, comparing tossing lures at schools of 15kg GTs is a world apart to focussing specifically on 40kg+ fish. I might only get one chance on that fish in a trip and I'm going to ensure that the popper I am using is going to one that is least likely to pull out of the water in front of that fish and  is most likely top hold together because it has superb wiring and components. A friend of mine lost a really big fish some 18 months ago because the swivel in the belly snapped under the pressure from the fish. I think he wishes that he had used one of the super premium offerings and is still kicking himself today.

[Angus Hulme]

Yep, fair comments Brandon.

I think you are giving little credit to what goes into a popper.

Well, not enough credit anyway. But having made a large number of lures of various descriptions, and studied closely how some middle of the range production lures are made, I reckon I have a better than average idea of what goes into a popper in terms of it's construction. Where I have no idea, is the research and development side of things. And that's why I have continued the discussion I suppose...to get a better appreciation of what goes into it.

i don think it is fair to simply express that you don't think that lures in this industry are as advanced as in other forms of fishing when you haven't got the experience with lures at that end or seen the GT popper industry evolve over the years.

I was more refering to the finish of the lures when I mentioned the word "advanced". I suppose the point I was trying to make was that GT's certainly couldn't care less how many coats of clear finish a lure has had. So in that situation, the nicest finishes must surely be for the anglers benefit only?

But you are spot on about my GT fishing experience, or lack of it.

Angus, you are raising a topic that has been discussed before and it is one where people have differing views.

that's what I was after.......some different perspectives.

Cheers
Angus

[Peter Morris]

Fishing in general is an expensive sport with high rewards.

I even find myself spending $25 on small poppers to fish the river here chasing little GT's up to 3kg.
The differences here are the same....I have outfished mates quite badly using what would be called a 'premium' popper for small fish compared to their 'chug bugs' which have gone untouched.
Again these fish can be very fussy at times........other times it doesnt seem to matter.

Pete

[Stan Konstantaras]

Some good points there guys, but I also know the Hammerhead I Cups can take a beating and still look good at the end of the day. Quality of finish and how durable paint is would have to built into prices as well. I cant say the same for the Craftbaits, but that's my opinion and they are both high end lures.

Apart from that, Chris I see some new colors available overseas, now how do I get my hands on a Kong 200 in Tuna Sparkle, Lime Light, Pink and Yellow and Jupiter locally without paying the postage from OS?

That's my dilemma
Cheers
stan

[Andrew Poulos]

Surprising you cant nail one on a stick Andrew.

Considering there have been some substantial captures around Sydney on poppers, you would think they would love a stickbait.

You had any follows..?

Pete

Follows yes... on the orions and others. Hook ups - no. At one of the spots they chase to the ledge and I run out of room to work the lure. I will keep at it....

[Chris Young]

Chris I see some new colors available overseas, now how do I get my hands on a Kong 200 in Tuna Sparkle, Lime Light, Pink and Yellow and Jupiter locally without paying the postage from OS?

That's my dilemma
Cheers
stan

Hi Stan, you can contact me direct by PM on here or email on my website, too easy that way you don't pay for shipping within Australia. I am always bringing new colours out.

[Travis Heaps]

Now as for the costing, I was very fortunate that Brandon offered to be tester for my lures, could you imagine the cost involved in testing in all the locations needed only to find they needed to be changed  (yet again) This process went on for 2 years I am also sure this process will be ongoing, eg : my lures are now fitted with belly swivels rated at 540kg, not because one has ever failed, rather because I want to make them the best I can with the best materials available

I make all of my lures myself, each lure has about 2 hours work plus materials and overhead cost (machinery etc). Then you have to source and grade materials, I use only the very best available. Now allow for waste and general stuff ups and rejects (rejects are what I get to fish with ). Even basic things like setting up and maintaining the website need to be factored in.   After all of those costs the retailers need to get a % to make it worthwhile for them.

Totally agree Chris.   For those that are interested in making their own lures and possible thinking about selling them it's an interesting exercise to sit down and write out a full costing analysis of making a lure - and include absolutely everything (office supplies/website maitenance/postage/packaging etc).  I've done it a couple of times and although it starts off looking cheap it soon adds up.  Then factor in enough profit so that you're not doing it for peanuts, plus distributors want a cut...it's not cheap to make a quality product if you are doing it for more than a hobby. 

Back to the original question about HammerHead Stickbait, I was given one of the larger ones, 85g. It looks to be the right thing for Kingies etc. It also has a very similar shape to the one I have been working on for the last couple of months, I would call it uncanny actually that we were both thinking on the same lines. I know for sure that they never saw my shape and I was unaware of they're one. They just beat me to the finish line.
For me this means back to the drawing board to come up with an original design, just to add another dimension to the costing

You did this to one of my designs with the Kong Chris - i've got the sketches somewhere, they aren't dated though...will see if I can track them down.  When you sat down and thought hard about the profile - casting aerodynamics, the way it sits in the water etc that arrow head shape is pretty effecient.  I had it sketched up and designed and then you released the Kong    As you said, back to the drawing board

[Mark Stotesbury]

Andrew send the facy poppers my way will replace with nylons  Talking about copies i see nomads has a stickbait that looks alot like Erics Orion Bigfoots .

[Travis Heaps]

Andrew send the facy poppers my way will replace with nylons  Talking about copies i see nomads has a stickbait that looks alot like Erics Orion Bigfoots .

Once you see them close up you'll realise the only similarity is that they both sink