Leader double?

[Bernie Keys]

Pardon if the answer seems obvious. It isn't to me. 
Quite often the experts forget that the new guys may lack the very basic information
 
I am new to this and although I have used braid before, I never bothered too much with doubles etc.

When Game fishing generally (I use the IGFA "recognized" line classes) I use wind on leaders which starts with a double.

When spinning from the rocks I always used a double to a swivel then a short wire leader (if needed) to the lure
I have been reading this and any other forum I can wade through looking for what the consensus is for terminal tackle.

I read and I think I understood the various excellent sticky threads on techniques on this forum 

So...I have a few questions

The "twisted" leader is used as a shock leader, is this correct?
When using one would you use another leader (is this  what bite leader is?) near the popper/lure for a bit of protection from the fish teeth.

Can a "double" be tied in braid using a plat? I have seen people use a "cats paw"  to tie doubles in mono but they are far inferior to a Bimini or a plat.
If so can the double loop then be used to attach to a "wind on" leader?
I would think  the resulting join would be as good if not better than the friction knots. (probably need binding etc)

Is it normal to use a shortish single wire leader in front of a popper?

And yes I know I should go on a charter and watch the experts but in the mean time I really am a trial & error man and will do some playing. 

[Peter Morris]

Bernie,

Do a bit of a search on twisted leaders & doubles and you will find masses of info.

In short.....A bimini is best in braid.
Its far easier to tie and I have never had one let me down.
Biminis are generally tied so you can attach a twisted leader via a loop to loop connection.
The advantages of this are that the connection formed (knot) is very fine and allows easy casting through the runners.
Wire..?.....to your poppers.....only if mackeral & wahoo are a concern.

Do a quick search mate....it will give you plenty of reading.


Pete

[John Joubert]

you will probably find that plenty dont use doubles at all and connect a rod length + or _ depending on preference of leader using a number of knots including, FG,HG,PE ;)all of which are a similar principle of the chinese finger trap knot.being the harder you pull the tighter the grip

JJ

[Bernie Keys]

Thanks Pete.
I did lots of searching and there is lots of info out there. The testing of various knots sort of inferred that the twisted leader is a "shock" leader but they didn't actually say.

So I guess from your answer nobody uses plats? I always used plats off the rocks but in the boat I went with bimini twists for a while but went back to plats. I personally found it easier to do a good plat. I could do a good Bimini but I found I had to work a bit harder to get really good ones but thats just me   

Whether its a twisted leader or a wind on the join will be about the same as they both use the loop to hook together.

Besides I have some fairly light wind on leaders I made up that I can just shorten to try out. 

Thanks John
The only reason I ever used doubles was to get the knot strength. I was fishing the lower line classes  so didn't want to lose main line strength.  I will try out a few of the knots but at first glance some look a bit tedious to tie well.

[Chuen Fan]

Bernie, as with all knots, practice makes perfect. The Bimini is a much quicker way of tying a double and alot easier to tie. Hence the preference for most to use it! Alot easier to tie on a rocking boat as well.

[Peter Morris]

Bernie,

Everyone has their preferences.
I like using twisted leaders as I like the idea of a longer leader.....But some go short,some use plaits,some use doubles and some dont.......Just find a system you like....and are confident with whatever knot it may be.

Pete

[Robert Palcak]

Hi Bernie

I also used to mainly game fish and in my opinion, plaits are the only way to go with mono.
With braid however, if you are tying a short double to attach to a twisty, I've found a bimini is the only way to go. Having said that, if you read through the Twisted Leader sticky thread, you'll see you can attach a twisty without a tied double... it's just doubled over for the catspaw part... then finished with a series of back to back half hitches... nice and neat and pretty strong.

I used to make up short wind-ons out of 170lb mono and 130lb hollow core braid and attached to the main line bimini... they were fantastic!... however, I then learnt the FG knot and now it takes me 5 - 10 mins to do an even neater connection with no loop to snag up on the stripper guide. I love the FG knot.... it's just a simple, single stage connection... ie, less to go wrong and smooth through the guides.

Cheers Rob

[Bernie Keys]

Thanks all.

Rob
I see you are from the home of the mighty CATS 
I was born & grew up down there.
We used to knock off Friday night, drive all the way to Green Cape, (for those who don'rt know, its a 12 hr drive) fish the Saturday, booze & sleep Saturday night, fish Sunday morning and drive home. Completely buggered at work Monday.....

Looks like I will be doing the same as you. I already have a few lighter wind ons I can use till I master the FG knot. Did you ever try plaits? (I knew there was something wrong with my spelling  , you know, knew the nose just couldn't pick it )

It was the same when I started Yellowfin & Marlin fishing. You don't know what you don't know  & most things are so obvious if you do know you can't understand why everyone doesn't know 

[Robert Palcak]

Yeh... go the cats!
It sucks living in Vic and wanting to chase Game fish. Portland is our only saving grace with the Tuna, anything else we have to drive/tow for friggin miles!... but hey, you do what you gotta do;D

Yes, I have tried plaits with braid, and they are OK, but they are a bitch to tie... ie, braid cuts into fingers a bit while keeping legs tight... and I believe the bimini is a neater knot and is much quicker to tie.

If you are going to use your lighter wind-ons... cool, but just make them up with Hollow Core Braid, not dacron. It's standard to use 80-130lb braid mainline for GT's and dacron in those breaking strains is way too bulky to cast.
Trust me, learning the FG isn't all that hard. I started using it for light leaders on baitcasters and that was tuff trying to do the cross wraps... when you do the knot on heavy mono(150lb+), it only takes a few go's to get it acceptable... after a dozen or so attempts, you'll do them quite well.

[Bernie Keys]

Boy is my face REALLY red

With the replies above, I started to think I was missing something so I went & reread the bit on twisted leaders etc.
Nope there is not all that there...then I looked at the dates. That can't be all there is. I was right I was missing the pages. The other forums (not fishing) I frequent have a slightly different setup with the pages. The "next" & "prev" buttons move pages NOT topics. I was only reading the first page.

Thanks for the replies it all makes sense now 
 
Can't wait till tomorrow when I can try a few things out...