GT Strength - Cold water vs Warm water

[Andre van Wyk]

Ok, so here is a little something I'd like to hear all you GT guru opinions on....

There has been a little bit of talk here in South Africa, mainly amongst the flyfishing guys, about the strength of the GT's that we get locally on our North Easern Coast, compared with those caught in the tropical atolls of Seychelles and the genreal concensus seems to be that our local GT's, which are being caught in 21 to 24 degree water mainly, fight ALOT harder than those caught on the very warm, 26 to 29 degree, flats and reefs of the Seychelles Atolls.... Some true monsters have been landed in Seychelles, as you've seen from some of my other posts, and some fish in the 110cm Fork Length have been landed in the very extreme surf zones, fly casting off the beaches here... a few fisherman have done both, and claim the local colder water fish are MUCH stronger.... almost double in fact...

Now I've also heard tell that the GT's of Musandam are amongst the toughest anywhere on the planet... coming from serious popping gurus like David and Adrian, who claim these GT's to be the strongest they have ever encountered.... on their last trip the water was below 24 degrees I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong!).....

So what is your thoughts on this? I know that alot of other species certainly fight harder in colder water up to a point, beyond which it just gets too cold for them and they shut down....

Colder water is usually more well oxygenated, by your thinking could this be part of the reasoning?

Any thoughts? Agreements? Arguements? Anyone think I'm smoking my socks?
I unfortunately have not been blessed enough to catch large GT's in both the warm Seychelles Tropics and locally on our east coast in the cooler water so can only appeal to those who might have better knowledge to express their opinions on this...

Thanks for ya time... and if you have experience with other species too, maybe not just GT's.... Tuna, Kingfish.... anything....

Respect from the Dark Continent

Andre

[Brandon Khoo]

Andre - that is a very interesting post.

I'm not sure how much water temperature plays in the activity of a fish. If it is a case that colder water  has an impact, there is also a limit because I don't think anyone doubts that tropical sportfish are stronger and faster than those that live in the polar regions.

I am more inclined personally to think of it in terms of the location and the environment which the fish live in. While I have not fished Musandam and the Seychelles, the hardest fighting fish I have encountered around Australia and the Pacific region are at Shoalwater. Many of the GTs there are very heavily built and are thicker than what I have seen elsewhere and at least to me, I think this is a reflection of the current they live in. Shoalwater has 7 metre tides which haveto be seen to be believed. Having visited Shoalwater twice now in the past 12 months, I have no doubt that the average fish there goes harder generally than what I have encountered elsewhere. I know Damon Olsen from Nomad shares the same opinion as myself on Shoalwater GTs. Damon had two fish there this year which were around the 28 - 35kg mark which fought like 50kg fish.

I have also heard that the fish from Komodo are the same - that is, they are immensely strong for their size. Until I have the opportunity to visit Komodo and Musandam on at least a couple of occasions, I am loathe to make comparisons as they will not be informed. Thus far, I know of noone who has fished Shoalwater, Musandam and Komodo. I'd be interested in getting a view from Eric le Guyader who is as successful a GT fisherman as any and has fished many locations including Musandam and Komodo. He has been keen to get out to Shoalwater but has not been able to arrange it so far. I'll e-mail him to get his opinion.

I'd also be interested in the views of David and Rudy at LPB as to whether they find the fish fight harder in winter in New Caledonia. That would be a very useful barometer.

We had a debate on another site about six months ago which I inadvertently started about yellowtail kings and amberjacks. In this part of the world, few doubt the yellowtail is the king of the seriolas but in the US, there are many who believe the AJ is stronger.

[Santosh Shanmuga]

The best way to judge this is what Brandon suggested, find out how fight fight at different temps in the same place. LPB is a good place to check, as they fish NC yearlong if I'm not mistaken. It could be, like Brandon said, that the fish there are just stronger due to currents, etc. Mackerel in New Brunswick are much stronger than the macks in Florida, as they have to deal with the jetstream current, as it comes very close to the continental dropoff there...

[Jon Li]

GT in areas where there are strong current tend to be much stronger and that is the fact , they get a lot bigger too in such areas . It's pretty much like the fire fighters who train everyday , they tend to be bigger , stronger and have more stamina than ordinary blokes who work in the office but go to the gymn often .

As for warm or cold current , GTs tend to go deeper when the water is too warm but at the same time , tend to be docile when the water gets too cold . Each species has it's preference on the water temperature where they become active .

GT is semi nocturnal , they come to the surface at dawn n at dusk but stay in deeper water at mid day .

Jon .

   

[Jonas Holmsgard]

Hi guys,
I am not by any means a "GT-guru". Quite the opposite in fact, as I have only caught about fifteen GTs of decent size (18-35 kgs) The relevant issue here though is that half of them was caught in "warm" february waters in Shoalwater Bay and the other half in cold (almost scandinavian temperatures) only around 20-21 degrees in the Musandam. They all made me work really hard, but I think the strong currents in both venues are the main reason for the thick and strong fish. However, I have yet to catch a decent GT in a place without those extreme currents.
One thing I do know 100% is that ALL tropical fish in any terrain  fight ten times harder then any fish we have up here in really cold waters near the arctic circle - including salmon, halibut or any other species up here!
Among the strongest fish pound for pound was a couple of roosterfish I caugth in 30 degree water in Panama a couple of years ago. These specific fish was caught in "calm" water too... I have caught quite a few roosters and those two definately fought the hardest even though they were caught in by far the "hottest" water I?v? caught them... I guess you never really figure out this sport of ours!?

/jonas

[Andre van Wyk]

Very interesting and well thought out replies gentlemen, thank you!

I propose that someone sponsor me a trip to each and every known GT hot spot over the next 6 months and I'll do an in depth study on the matter!!!

Hahahahaha!

In all seriousness though, I'm sure the environment probably has even more to do with it than the water temp.... The GT's on our East Coast live in very much a rock and surf environment, with alot of big waves and swell, and their feeding zone is RIGHT IN THE SURF, up against the rocks... this is a tough environment for any animal to survive, and to be the aplha predator, you have to be tougher than anyone else... And these fish get big and tough.... the largest that I know of taken off the beach/rocks on live bait (bonefish) was over 60 kilos, and the largest on popper around the 55 kilo mark....Big, Thick, TOUGH fish...

The fish in Seychelles on the other hand, although the environment is pretty gnarly too, with 2 and 3 metre tidal movements, the fish were often, not always, but sometimes, significantly "skinnier"... Make no mistake, these fish are still GT's, and they will kick your ass, but the fish you catch inside the lagoons in the atolls, were't as tough as those caught on the outer reef edges which are hunting in the surf zone.....

Anyway, interesting I thought... something else to keep us thinking about anyway....

Janos - Mate, Roosterfish haunt my dreams.... I HAVE to hunt those things one day....
Hows Sverige these days mate?

[Peter Morris]

GT in areas where there are strong current tend to be much stronger and that is the fact , they get a lot bigger too in such areas . It's pretty much like the fire fighters who train everyday , they tend to be bigger , stronger and have more stamina than ordinary blokes who work in the office but go to the gymn often .

As for warm or cold current , GTs tend to go deeper when the water is too warm but at the same time , tend to be docile when the water gets too cold . Each species has it's preference on the water temperature where they become active .

GT is semi nocturnal , they come to the surface at dawn n at dusk but stay in deeper water at mid day .

Jon .

   

That does make alot of sense...
GT's that consistently fight against currents would be more Muscled up...
Same for Barramundi...Wild fish seem to fight alot harder than the impoundment caught fish as the saltwater fish are working against currents and tides.

Pete

[Jonas Holmsgard]

Hi Andre,

Sverige is rainy, cold, grey and expensive - just like you remember it 
Well, dreaming of the tropics and strong fish is one way to stay sane up here.

Roosterfish really are cool fish. They fight really hard, but clean with long, strong runs (mostly in open waters and they do not take you into the rocks) Therefore you can fish for them with lighter tackle then you would GTs of the same size. (my best rooster so far is only around 25 kg, but I ?ve seen them up to at least 40...) I have chased them on fly, but so far I have not caught any that way. They love topwater lures though - if you work them fast enough. Best of all - they are by far the prettiest fish I have ever caught. I have caght a few in Costa Rica, but I don?t think you can beat Coiba Island, Panama for both quantity and quality. The areas also have amazing fishing for Cuberas, all sorts of jacks, bluefin trevally, pacific snook inshore. (all lots of fun on fly and spinning tackle) 30 minutes offshore you fish for giant yellowfin, dorado, sails (still on poppers) plus both blue and black marlin should you wish. During the rainy season (may-dec) the wahoo fishing is also world class!! So far this is the most amazing place I have fished - perfect area for flyfishing/topwater with amazing diversity in a beautiful rainforest inland setting.

Let me know when you are coming to G?teborg. I?ll keep my promise and buy you a few beers!

/jonas

[Andre van Wyk]

Jonas,

My friend, you have fished my ultimate location man... I have dreamed of Coiba for many years... I lived in the Caribbean for 5 years, in Grand Cayman and was always looking to try and get myslef across there... but as a barefoot boat captain and dive instructor, I was penniless and never quite made it.... Cuberas and Roosters.... and a ton of Yellowfin on top to boot.... ahhhhhh man, pure heaven I reckon!!!

Tell you what, never mind that (expensive) beer in G'borg, i'd prefer a couple rum and cokes in Coiba!!!
Hahahaah - I wish!!!

Hopefuilly I'll be back in Sverige when the weather is a little better around the summer....

Tuk tuk!
Hej Do
A

[Jonas Holmsgard]

Andre,
As the US dollar keeps getting cheaper I am hoping to return to Panama soon. Tag along and the rum & coke is definately on me! 
Coiba is truly amazing! Hopefully I will soon be there for the third time...

/jonas

[Santosh Shanmuga]

Guys, that area of central America is just plain amazing. I have been waiting to go to Coiba also. I spent a week in Crocodile Bay, Costa Rica 3 years ago...Amazing fishing, landed a couple snook up to 33", but the main even were the Roosters and Sailfish. Between me and my dad, we landed close to 60 sails for the week...about 5 a day per person. And the roosters there are mean!

I had a bull rooster nearly dump me twice on my Tibor Billy Plate Tarpon Reel. He went close to 45 lbs. Another large bull did manage to spool me...

Great fishing there!
Who knows...we might meet somewhere one day.

If you see an Indian guy flyfishing, say hi. 

[Sachin Chaudhry]

I reckon there is a bit more going on than the water temp itself. Cooler water is denser so one would think that the fish itself would struggle to swin faster than say if it was in warmer water. Areas with heavier current tend to hold fish that fight longer. Have experienced this many times and sometimes on the same reef such as Solo in Fiji. I have found yellowfin in warmer water to be much more problematic that cooler weather fish. Does anyone think that the fish themselves may have genetic variations as most creatures do? This may explain why some Joe Pesci fish put in a Arnold Schwarzenegger fight.

[Brandon Khoo]

That should be Danny deVito when he says "so he got all the good genes and I got all the leftover crap"....

[Luke Wyrsta]

Andre,
As the US dollar keeps getting cheaper I am hoping to return to Panama soon. Tag along and the rum & coke is definately on me! 
Coiba is truly amazing! Hopefully I will soon be there for the third time...

/jonas

Sacrilege!!! How dare you mention a destination that is void of the GT ..... shame!!!!

[Jonas Holmsgard]

  Sorry Luke, I got carried away not remembering where in cyber space I had landed.
IF Coiba had GTs there would be no reason to travel anywhere else in the world.  Execept for bonefish, permit and tarpon of course
- ooops I did it again.

/jonas