Leader Setup's why so complex?

[Tosh Auer]

Hi guys,

This is my first post here so bear with me if this has been covered before. I have been reading through alot of past threads in relation to leaders and i am confused on a lot of people's leader setups. I am relatively new to popping and dont understand why so many people have 10' - 20' of leader/ twisted leader/ shock leader/ wind on whatever it happens to be. I cant think of anything worse then casting knots and wind on connections through your guides all day. I understand the need for a leader as a shock absorber and less visible to fish etc. Am i missing something??  As i said i am relatively new to this so please excuse any stupidity in this question.

Thanks in advance

Tosh

[Mark Harris]

Tosh, I would suggest you keep it very simple as many GT anglers do.  A single strand nylon shock leader leader of about 3 metres attached to your  braided mainline via a knot such as FG, PR or Mid.

Fishing does not get much simpler than that.

[Clem Henry]

Just as Mark said...

Some don't mind a knot traveling through the guides...some do (like me). I run a relatively short leader for this reason, there are just the usual pro's and con's to doing that.

[Brandon Khoo]

There are a myriad of different approaches to leaders out there and some are much more complex than others. I suppose it is very much a case of each to their own and what you are happy with. There is no right approach. The approach you are referring to comprises of hollow braid whereby the connection of the mainline to the heavier length of hollow braid is seamless before it is connected to a mono leader. It is actually a pretty smooth connection. I don't use it myself but I know people who do.

There are other very complex systems out there, some of which is my view have been developed for no other purpose than for the sake of individuality. To some celebrity Japanese anglers, that is important.

[Nick Bowles]

Hi Tosh, I think it is a big case of what you are confident in and what works for you. As fisherman we all have some strange superstitions and habits and this also goes to tackle set ups, gear etc. For me I use a very simple set up which is a short heavy leader that the knot sits outside the guides and I use a bimini in the braid and a yucatan knot to join the leader to the braid. Very simple and can tie it in about 2 minutes on the boat if I get smashed up. This has worked for me for the last 5 years and landed a lot of fish, but good friends I fish with often use other set ups so we always go back and forth with pros and cons and as Brandon said there is no right or wrong. I have a lot of reasons why I use it but for me it works for others it won't. Try a few and see what you like and lets you land decent fish!

Cheers,
Nick

[Tosh Auer]

Hi Guys,

Thanks very much for your replies. I am relatively new to popping compared to a lot on this forum(a handful of oversea's trips fiji, indo, vanuatu etc. and a bit of stuff around 1770 near where i live. I also dont have the budget for carpenter rods and stella's or saltiga's. I am running an Shimano Saragosa 18000F on a Daiwa Monster Mesh Max popping stick and generally like keeping things simple. Until now i have used a very simple leader setup similar to Nick's. Is there a minimum to leader lengths other than if to short fish will see your mainline. For me about 4 foot of heavy leader which remains out the guides has been my weapon of choice.

Thanks for all the advice.

Tosh

[Adam Gladwin]

I think I like Nicks idea about keeping it simple and being able to quickly tie in the boat.I come from a Jigging background and have lots of faith in my biminis,also like the idea of the double braid as a shock absorber.anyone have any idea on the gt knot compared to the Yucatan as far as strength is concerned?

[Mark Harris]

Tosh and Adam,

You will find many different views on this. Just find a method that you are comfortable with.

Nick's setup with a short leader which is cast with the leader outside the tip guide is something that clearly works well for him.

Others will tell you that a 3 metre leader cast through the guides is their method.

Try both and see which you prefer.   Both are simple set-ups. Rigging for GT Popping is not a complex issue.

Knot-wise, you should learn to tie least one slim friction knot which allows you to try the long leader option. Personally I find FG knots the easiest and no tools are required. Others will swear by the PR knot which requires a bobbin. Some use the mid-knot. All 3 are extremely reliable once you know how to tie them.  For the short leader option, there are many knot solutions.

[Aaron Concord]

Knot clearance, added stretch to the system to avoid the braid breaking from the strike or bending trebles/single hooks, disassociation of the braid from the lure and the advantage of having something that can take the punishment of the GT's teeth and tail scutes.........these are questions that need to be addressed when looking for a leader system IMO.

Out of desperation on a NOMAD trip in March 2001, I devised the twisted leader system for GT's.
It is just a beefed up version of castable wind-on leaders that Rod Harrison made popular in the early 00's.
I was sick of wrecking guide inserts and guide frames from the large knots that we were trying to use.
I could tie a Bimini. I could do a catspaw, so with this in mind, I twisted up heavier leader material to make a castable wind-on leader that had small connections.
Back then, it was all popper fishing as stickbaits had yet to come into this country, so the heavy twisted leader didn't really put any fish off in the rough water spots we liked to pop.

Surge forward 10 years and I'd prefer a single strand leader connected via a friction knot.
This allows for stretchy shock leader to still be employed for it's stretch, though the single strand also allows for a stealthier presentation when using poppers or stick baits.

Whatever system you choose, just learn to tie the knot/s very well!

[Luke Wyrsta]

As stated, everyone has their ideal method. I have several different setups that I use for different methods, lures and terrain.

What really has to hit home is what Aaron mentioned, find a knot you can tie well that won't fail unless it's pushed beyond it's capacity. User-error when tying a knot is not only humiliating but it could cost you a fish of a life-time - including up to $200.00 in GT hardware and other intangible costs!

Tie it well, throw it 60m plus and you are in the game.

[Mark Harris]

Tie it well, throw it 60m plus and you are in the game.

Love that. A perfect, concise summary of what to do to catch a GT

One great thing about GT fishing is that you really only need to master 2 fairly simple knots: braid to leader and leader to terminals or lure. So learn to tie (for example) an FG knot and a four turn uni knot, and it's game-on.

[Aaron Concord]

Rock,

I echo Mark's sentiments on your "tie well,throw it 60m plus and you are in the game" comment.........very well put indeed mate.

As a bit of a closet "knot-ologist" I try and learn every knot going.
Having said that, certain knots I can certainly tie more quickly with no error...........those are the ones that are GOLD when out in sloppy conditions and you've got to re-rig.
Anyone can tie a perfect knot with time, space and a few extra hands to help on dry land.
Try getting help to tie any knot out at sea when the bite is on.
It ain't going to happen!

So, to reaffirm, fart around with a bunch of leader and knot setups (most preferable BEFORE the big trip!!) to see what works for you and learn those handful of knots REALLY well!

Aaron.

[Tosh Auer]

Thanks very much guys for all the help. I think I'm going to trial an fg knot to about 3-4 metres of shock leader and see how I feel about casting it through guides after my upcoming trip to Vanuatu.

Thanks again

Tosh

[Luke Wyrsta]

Thanks very much guys for all the help. I think I'm going to trial an fg knot to about 3-4 metres of shock leader and see how I feel about casting it through guides after my upcoming trip to Vanuatu.

Thanks again

Tosh

Unless you are fishing under several metres of water in depth, might I suggest you start with a leader no longer than 2 metres. I think this will provide you a compromise and will help you cast most effectively.

[Tosh Auer]

Will experiment with a few different lengths and compare to my standard 3-4 foot leader remaining outside my guides.

Cheers