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voodoo

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Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 12:17:37 PM
G'day , I've been doing some reearch on high end spinning reels and like the look of the Daiwa Dogfight.

 Now , I know that the preffered reels of many seems to be the Stella and I've also read alot about the Saltiga expedition range of reels, but not many people seem to rate the dogfight that highly. As a matter of fact, ive even heard a few people say that it's too highly priced and that is is not that good considering the price.

 I know that it may be a bit overkill for land based high speed spinning from around Sydney and north coast headlands, but is there any other reason that I shouldn't consider investing in what I reckon is a damn hot looking reel?

Andrew Poulos

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 12:29:59 PM
Hi voodoo,

No reason...because thats what I do with mine.....the only complaint is that for a reel costing that much, a drag upgrade may be needed if you are pushing it to the limit. But other than that, I love mine and it does a great job as is.....I use mine for chasing kings.....

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 01:08:05 PM
I think there are a lot more out there than people think. It's true that the majority of the popping fraternity use the Stella 10000 but don't forget the 10000 has been around a lot longer than the Dogfight.

I've got both the Dogfight and the 10000 and I prefer to use the Dogfight. That said, all my dogfight spools have upgraded carbontex washers. I find the reel more powerful than the 10000 but that is just a personal feeling. Conversely, there is no doubt that the Stella feels smoother.

I've got to get off this damn soapbox but I can't help it - it's disgraceful that we have to spend more money on a reel that is already so bloody expensive!!
If it swims; I want to catch it!

voodoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 01:14:33 PM
Thanks for the fast response.

 It's good to know that there are some people out there that rate it.

 Woudl still be interested to hear from anyone that has any arguments against it before I splash out on the purchase.

 I suppose Im not really looking for a comparative analysis of the reel against other top end models, but if any one has any particular complaints, i'd be happy to hear them as well.

 For the price you pay , you'd expect the 'smooth' not to be that much less than the 'smoothness' on the stella. I'd imagine that the action woudl be pretty good on both reels.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 01:21:03 PM
it's the gearing - the Daiwa has a huge main cog in it.

Good?! These spinning reels are the best money can buy!

There is nothing bad I can say about the reel and unless you're looking to go out the and fish it with a really heavy drag, you don't really need to do anything with the drag. It's blooody expensive and very well made - as it should be.

Why do I use it over the 10000? Realistically, probably more for cosmetic reasons than anything else! At that level, it doesn't matter.

If you do decide to get one of these and you're in Sydney, bring it over to my place and I'll upgrade the drag for you. Just give me some notice so I can get some more carbontex washers because I've used up every set I had!
If it swims; I want to catch it!

voodoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 02:13:29 PM
Cheers Brandon,

 I think your advice has pretty much sealed the deal for me.


Andrew Poulos

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 02:21:07 PM
The difference  that I heard as well was that other than the big thick main shaft was the gears and metal being stronger than that in the stella. Not that they stellas arent good, but over time, the dogfight was meant to last longer...and the daiwa was more waterproof....they look great too....problems against it..the only thing I heard was from one person having some bail arm problems but that was fixed. That was more of a one off problem rather than design flaw.

Luke Wyrsta

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 07:11:50 PM
The difference  that I heard as well was that other than the big thick main shaft was the gears and metal being stronger than that in the stella. Not that they stellas arent good, but over time, the dogfight was meant to last longer...and the daiwa was more waterproof....they look great too....problems against it..the only thing I heard was from one person having some bail arm problems but that was fixed. That was more of a one off problem rather than design flaw.

Andrew, this is not a response directed at you, merely directed at some of the claims...

What the Dogfighter, was meant or is meant to do means nothing, it simply doesn't have the track record of the Stella, we all know that the Stella is the choice of a majority of Japanese GT pros. I would also be looking at the track record of the other Saltigas which have been tarnished by problems & breakages. Is this model supposed to completey supercede one of these models and have the issues been addressed?

I don't think the waterproof comment is really fair - more waterproof, how and where? To this date i have never heard a word about any issues in regards to Shimano Stella waterproofness. I even dropped my Stella 20k spool to the bottom of the ocean once, got it back, and all it needed was a rinse with freshwater and a bit more grease on the bearings. I dismantled the spool completely 6 months later to find a near perfect condition.

If i were considering a Dogfight i would first be making sure that they have addressed the issues from the past, not simply making seemingly unqualified comparisons to a reel with a near perfect track record. Be careful, beneath the beautiful black paint could be a lemon! But we know that it can catch good fish but time will tell if the real issues arise.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 07:39:43 PM
Luke - to be fair, the Dogfight can't have the track record of the Stella. As a new reel, that just can't be the case. Time will tell as to its longeivity.

Josh, the one thing i think you should consider is whether the premium they want for the Daiwa is worth it. I bought mine abroad so i didn't pay the ridiculous prices demanded by Daiwa in Australia but there is a significant diference in price between the two reels locally. I've seen the Stella at around $950 locally (see motackle) but the Dogfight is still at best around the $1250 mark - and the dealers aren't supposed to offer any discounts. I've seen it as high as $1450 - which would have paid for the reel and the three spare spools I carry!

What i can tell you from my experience to date is that the reel does the job well - but no better than the 10000 and as I pointed out below, the reason for my preference over the 10000 is not performance based - its cosmetic! If I was looking at a $300 difference between two comparable reels, I know what my choice would be!
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Andrew Poulos

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 07:40:40 PM
Yep, I know where you are coming from Luke. I havent had as much experience with the reels to know, but its mainly been from people I have spoken too in various areas.

The breakages happened on a few reels where the owners put on the t bar handle which is only meant to be used with the overhead reels. This T bar and pushing the 4500s to the limit caused leverage issues and snapped a few at the stem. The dogfighter has brass inserts in the stem, but I don't know if they add to the structural integrity. I haven't heard of any such issues with the 6500 series of reels. Daiwa wont, or will give you a hard time if you try to do a warranty claim on a saltiga threadline that has had this t bar put on.
 
The waterproofness, was something that was meant to be better for the drags and the spool....never dunked mine so cant validate how much water gets in. There is a difference in the metal used between the 2 brands for the gears, and over time the daiwa was supposed to win out. Again, they havent been around long enough to prove it.

The dogfighter is the new kid on the block, and I chose to follow the different path based on people I spoke too, and lots of reading and research. I was going to start off with a spheros, then a beefed up spheros, to a stella, and then ended up going Daiwa. Im not questioning the stellas as they have a proven track record with these models or sound anti shimano as I have both brands.

Either way, both are exceptional reels, and I say alot of the  comments people make area bit like ford vs holden. These reels are in the top class of threadlines and perform as such.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 07:46:46 PM
I know one of our other members here broke a couple of the 4500s at the stem. I'd be interested to know whether he had the T bar handle on them. Tell you what, I'd be pretty damn pissed off if that happened to my reel irrespective of whether I had an aftermarket handle or not!! I'd be posting pictures of it everywhere if they refused the warranty claim because of that


Yep, I know where you are coming from Luke. I havent had as much experience with the reels to know, but its mainly been from people I have spoken too in various areas.

The breakages happened on a few reels where the owners put on the t bar handle which is only meant to be used with the overhead reels. This T bar and pushing the 4500s to the limit caused leverage issues and snapped a few at the stem. The dogfighter has brass inserts in the stem, but I don't know if they add to the structural integrity. I haven't heard of any such issues with the 6500 series of reels. Daiwa wont, or will give you a hard time if you try to do a warranty claim on a saltiga threadline that has had this t bar put on.
 
The waterproofness, was something that was meant to be better for the drags and the spool....never dunked mine so cant validate how much water gets in. There is a difference in the metal used between the 2 brands for the gears, and over time the daiwa was supposed to win out. Again, they havent been around long enough to prove it.

The dogfighter is the new kid on the block, and I chose to follow the different path based on people I spoke too, and lots of reading and research. I was going to start off with a spheros, then a beefed up spheros, to a stella, and then ended up going Daiwa. Im not questioning the stellas as they have a proven track record with these models or sound anti shimano as I have both brands.

Either way, both are exceptional reels, and I say alot of the  comments people make area bit like ford vs holden. These reels are in the top class of threadlines and perform as such.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Jon Li

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 07:54:17 PM
DogFight 6500 is nothing more than Z6000GT with #6500 spool + optional grip , all painted BLACK ! All cosmetic + more line capacity and still must be upgraded using carbontex to perform , I wonder what Daiwa will say should one of the drag upgraded reel happen to break ?

Daiwa did raise that question whether I use different drag washers when I broke my Z4500 when fishing YFTs , ask Eric Le Guyader how he broke his Z6000GT and another guy from Brazil who broke the handle . I think Luke can help dig out the threads from a European forum .

For me Stella 10000HG is still my choise for big GT but yes I find them to be a little too heavy and prefer my old '98 Stella 16000F but then you guys shouldn't have that problem .

Jon . 
It's not what you don't know that gets you into trouble , it's what you know for sure that ain't so . Mark Twain .

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 08:06:14 PM
Jon - hang on - they asked whether you had upgraded the drag to carbontex? Why?! Were they wanting to argue that the carbontex resulted in two much drag and that was why the reel snapped at the stem?! HUH?
If it swims; I want to catch it!

voodoo

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 08:49:14 PM
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

This is a truly high quality forum. 

Andrew Poulos

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Re: Daiwa Dogfight - what is it good for?
April 04, 2007, 09:56:17 PM
No worries Josh..

Some more info for you re saltiga range

6000 is medium capacity, lower gear ratio
6000GT is smaller capacity casting spool, high gear ratio
6500 Expedition is large spool, lower gear ratio, golf ball handle
6500 Dogfight is Expedition with high gear ratio