PR knot unwinding when Casting

[Edward Wwen]

Hi,
I've been using the PR knot for quite a while now for jigging and a little bit for popping. Always successful in the past. On my recent trip all three of my spools with PR knot the part where I did the alternating half hitches finish on two and a uni knot with reverse wrap finish would unwind. Luckily the wraps were till on so i didn't lose my lure but it would unravel over time. My friend tied on a Tony Pena knot for me an it worked ok but it is bulkier. What's wrong with my knot!! I test my knots at home for any slippage or breaking signs and all held up to 35lbs of pull on scale with no slippage. My occlusion is that the "finish" locking part of te PR knots came unwound. Btw my knots were only 2-3cm long because I like them shorter for casting and they were all tied with hollow core braid. I need to learn howto do knot less connections but haven't had the chance yet.

[Courtland Babcock]

If I get stuck with a PR knot for casting I make sure it is outside the guides for casting. This typically requires a much shorter leader. I will not use a PR in flouro over #100 as it is too hard to seat the knots well. I use a 5 turn uni to finish mine without issue.

Try to learn some knot less connections that is the point of hollow and makes life a lot easier.

[Cameron Mundy]

Are you referring to the half hitches done on the mainline (Braid) or on the leader itself? Personally I don't bother with the hitches on the main line as they always work loose and don't add any strength to the connection itself.

[Edward Wwen]

If I get stuck with a PR knot for casting I make sure it is outside the guides for casting. This typically requires a much shorter leader. I will not use a PR in flouro over #100 as it is too hard to seat the knots well. I use a 5 turn uni to finish mine without issue.

Try to learn some knot less connections that is the point of hollow and makes life a lot easier.

Courtland,
I've actually did both. I've done the half hitches and I've done the finish with the reverse uni knot then I wrap the loop around 6 times. I've actually found that uni knot one easier to unravel I have no idea why. It seems  the part where you wrap the loop sticks out a bit and any awkward contact with the rod guides and It comes undone.
I'm not comfortable having that short of leader so my pr knot goes through most if not all the guides.
Do you know of a good video for a simple knot less connection. I need to switch to that it seems to b solution for casting. Jiggin I have never had any sort of problem at all.

[Edward Wwen]

Are you referring to the half hitches done on the mainline (Braid) or on the leader itself? Personally I don't bother with the hitches on the main line as they always work loose and don't add any strength to the connection itself.

I usually do half hitches in both. I'm not 100% sure what happene but what I do know was that the wraps done by PR bobbin were no longer followed by a series a half hitches rather the mono leader was exposed. When I pulled on the leader it would slowly unravel until there was nothing. The same thing happene with the reverse uni knot + wrap finish.

[Edward Wwen]

Some more information about te knots that came unwound;
1) JERRY BROWN HC 100 pr knot to 80lb Yozuri flurocarbon
2) jerry brown hc60 pr knot to 80lb Yozuri
3) seaguar threadlock HC50 to 80lb Yozuri
4)daiwa boat braid pe6 to 80lb Yozuri flurocarbon.

These were all from casting I had PR knots with all my jig setups and they were fine.

[Joshua Fifis]

If you can tie these knots then you will find it just as easy (if not easier) to do a hollow core splice. Just search it on YouTube, there are a heap of videos.

[Edward Wwen]

If you can tie these knots then you will find it just as easy (if not easier) to do a hollow core splice. Just search it on YouTube, there are a heap of videos.

Thanks that's encouraging.
Which one is easiest? Loop to loop, splice, etc.? Any links would be greatly appreciated! Or maybe they're supposed to be that long? What materials do I need?

[Chris Dennis]

How about the FG ? Even i can tie one 

[Cameron Mundy]

Its fallen out of vogue a bit but a great connection for hollow is to splice a loop in the main line which is very easy with either a splicing needle or even a doubled over piece of malin wire then catspaw the main line to either a wind on leader or a Twisted leader.

[Ian Cook]

You can always add a small drop of super glue just over the half hitches at the end of the knot where the tag is, once you have locked the half hitches down tightly and trimmed the tag off, that works for me and usually keeps it in place, just make sure the glue is completely dry before casting.

Cheers,

Ian

[Courtland Babcock]

If you watch from minutes 2-7 on this video:

you will see how to make an end loop splice. I am doing it for wind-on leader connection but it is the same principle. You would be working towards the end of your line. The 3-4 foot section I speak of would be going towards your spool.

Here is my PR knot video as well just to compare notes:

Twisty's right here:

[Edward Wwen]

I think I may have figured out what I've been doing wrong after watching your video. I tie it almost the exact same way.
1)rembeer the very end part of your video where you unwrap the braid  you didn't use. Ive done this before I finished the "holding knot" (e.g. The reverse uni knot with unwraps). Maybe that's been causing the problems?
2)the unwraps after the reverse uni knot, I think I haven't been doing the right way. When you are unwrapping should the loop getting bigger or smaller? Are you taking away braid from the side of the PR wraps of the side closer to the mainline? It is hard to tell in the video(s).
3) I haven't been burning the mono tag end out of fear of damaging the braid but I think that may be necessary for casting.

[Courtland Babcock]

I think I may have figured out what I've been doing wrong after watching your video. I tie it almost the exact same way.
1)rembeer the very end part of your video where you unwrap the braid  you didn't use. Ive done this before I finished the "holding knot" (e.g. The reverse uni knot with unwraps). Maybe that's been causing the problems?
2)the unwraps after the reverse uni knot, I think I haven't been doing the right way. When you are unwrapping should the loop getting bigger or smaller? Are you taking away braid from the side of the PR wraps of the side closer to the mainline? It is hard to tell in the video(s).
3) I haven't been burning the mono tag end out of fear of damaging the braid but I think that may be necessary for casting.

So tough to put into words but lets try.

The mainline- in theory- never moves once the first few wraps with the bobbin are made. The entire wrap back up and over the loose wraps are all coming from the "tag end" or bobbin. The knot is tied with the tag end.

When un-wrapping the uni the "loop" should get bigger as you are adding the line that was loosely wrapped- to the loop- as you wind it tighter against the bobbin wraps. In my opinion this is the most crucial step. Those unwinding wraps have to be as tight as possible for the knot to hold. If they are loose, the last 2 "un"wraps of the uni will tighten while the 3 others will just smoosh down. They will of course begin to loosen over the course of casting.

Burning is nice and the "nub" adds a bit of protection, IMO, but if you get to the point where the nub is holding it all together- it is still a bit off.

Some pictures are always good. Here is a finished one.

[Edward Wwen]

I think I may have figured out what I've been doing wrong after watching your video. I tie it almost the exact same way.
1)rembeer the very end part of your video where you unwrap the braid  you didn't use. Ive done this before I finished the "holding knot" (e.g. The reverse uni knot with unwraps). Maybe that's been causing the problems?
2)the unwraps after the reverse uni knot, I think I haven't been doing the right way. When you are unwrapping should the loop getting bigger or smaller? Are you taking away braid from the side of the PR wraps of the side closer to the mainline? It is hard to tell in the video(s).
3) I haven't been burning the mono tag end out of fear of damaging the braid but I think that may be necessary for casting.

So tough to put into words but lets try.

The mainline- in theory- never moves once the first few wraps with the bobbin are made. The entire wrap back up and over the loose wraps are all coming from the "tag end" or bobbin. The knot is tied with the tag end.

When un-wrapping the uni the "loop" should get bigger as you are adding the line that was loosely wrapped- to the loop- as you wind it tighter against the bobbin wraps. In my opinion this is the most crucial step. Those unwinding wraps have to be as tight as possible for the knot to hold. If they are loose, the last 2 "un"wraps of the uni will tighten while the 3 others will just smoosh down. They will of course begin to loosen over the course of casting.

Burning is nice and the "nub" adds a bit of protection, IMO, but if you get to the point where the nub is holding it all together- it is still a bit off.

Some pictures are always good. Here is a finished one.

Court land I think inunderstand everything you wrote. And the picture does help. Mines looks very similar but I think the part I got wrong is not putting enough pressure when doing the unwrap. I had no idea it was crucial during that part. The part where I did the unwraps /finishing knot seems to be "thicker"/"looser". The last unwrap really stuck out and I could with a bit of effort unwrap it very easily Meaning I didn't unwrap it tightly enough. That must be where I've went wrong. I like this finishing knot more than the Half hitches cause it is smoother through the guides. I hope that will fix my problem as I have some popping reels with solid braid.
 After the winter holidays I'm gonna tie a few following your advice and post my pics and you can let me know what you think.

Thanks so much brotha!!

Edit: just one part in still a little confused on. So you know how in the beginning make your first layer of the loose wraps then after that you spin back down towards your mainline with the bobbin with tension to make the second layer of tight wraps. Usually there is still some  "loose wraps" around the leader that you didn't make a second layer of tight wraps around. Do you unravel those "loose" wraps before tieing your finishing knot (e.g. Reverse uni knot + unwraps) or do you leave those "loose" wraps and tie your finishing knot with those loose wraps of braid and the leader? I hope this makes sense. If not I will take some pictures after I'm back from vacation.