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Jay Burgess

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The singles vs trebles debate
March 14, 2009, 11:12:42 PM
Over the past few weeks myself and my fishing partners have lost several good fish using treble hooks. One particular one occured today when I hooked a fish around 25-30kg in reasonably shallow water. Under heavy drag and PE10 line I felt the hooks come free less than a minute into the fight. I couldn't help but to think that if I had been using singles this may not have occured... but on the other hand I guess there's the chance it may not have hooked up in the first place. It's a catch 22 but I'm seriously considering the use of singles more often because quite frankly, I'm sick of losing good fish.

I'm interested to know what people use and their experience regarding hookup rates, retention rates etc. There is obvious benefits of both but does one outweigh the other? Thoughts..

Jon Li

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 14, 2009, 11:14:39 PM
I use treble on the belly n single at the tail , so far so good .

Jon .
It's not what you don't know that gets you into trouble , it's what you know for sure that ain't so . Mark Twain .

Dave Hygate

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 01:51:15 AM
I use treble on the belly n single at the tail , so far so good .

Jon .

My friends and I in Singapore are just back from 7 days in Maldives, and most of us used singles.  We had almost no fish striking the poppers failing to hook up, and if they did 'fall off' most of the fish grabbed the popper again!!

The guys using trebles did lose some fish and because of this I am now a singles guy!

TT

Brandon Khoo

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 08:05:58 AM
this is a topic that has been discussed on a few occasions. Do a search for the old threads
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Mick Cunningham

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 03:39:37 PM
hey jay maybe you should try this style ??  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ::)

Warwick Joyce

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 04:24:34 PM
You could always weld big singles together yourself ;) strength of a single but in a treble :D
I havent bought many high end trebles but the few I have the strength doesnt seem to be there like in high end singles.

I have also had a Queenfish launch 2m into the air with a popper that had 2 massive trebles on it and still failed to hook up. Another happened today but after inspection of the lure the teeth marks were all on the back so unless I had a back hook it wouldnt have made a difference if I were using singles or trebles.

In my view there is no less hookup rate and even if there was the retention rate, handling (ease of hook removal) and less damage to the fish wins the argument for me.
Give it a go Jay I recon you'll be sold after landing a few.

Luke Wyrsta

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 09:10:06 PM
All horses for courses  ;D I use both.

As Brandon mentioned, there has been in depth literature on the forum in the past - do a search.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 09:23:00 PM
I personally think that there has been a bit too much rhetoric in favour of singles. I've been using both for years now and my thoughts have been expressed in previous posts. I get the feeling that because it has been pushed really hard by some people in the industry that rhetoric has become reality. I have found it incredibly exasperating for a guide to comment that I dropped a fish because I was using trebles but when the fish is dropped on a single, no comment whatsoever is made.

There is no question whatsoever that single hooks work better for inexperienced anglers due to the amount of slack they permit to come into the line. With trebles, especially barbless trebles, you've got to ensure you keep the tension on fully at all times to the fish - and there will still be occasions when you drop fish on full tension - but that also happens with singles.

Singles definitely have a place today and I nearly always use them off the rear but my preferred rig is still to have a treble off the belly. The very large majority of the best GT anglers on the planet prefer trebles. It can't be because they don't know what they are doing.

If it swims; I want to catch it!

Travis Heaps

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 15, 2009, 10:45:22 PM
... The very large majority of the best GT anglers on the planet prefer trebles. It can't be because they don't know what they are doing.


As opposed to singles or baker rigs? 

My preference for a barbless Baker Rig off the belly and a single off the rear is based on my experience of missing as many strikes with this set-up as with trebles, dropping very few fish once hooked up and minimal to no extraneous damage to the fish caused by the hooks during the fight. 

The treble on the belly doesn't really fly with me, it obviously works but I can't see it being more effective than a baker rig.  Simple geometry means two of the prongs will sit very close to the body of the lure, leaving one exposed perpendicular to the body. However a baker rig will have two prongs exposed either side of the body, the advantage being that once hooked up there is greater gape to retain the fish in.

Brandon Khoo

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 16, 2009, 08:59:18 AM
yes, as opposed to singles or bakers and considering that the Japanese have been fishing this way for a decade and a half and that they design all the trebles and single hooks we use, the choice obviously works for them.

It isn't just the Japanese though. The boys at Le Poisson Banane who would arguably have as much expertise on GTs as anyone out there swear by trebles and they've used everything.

Do not misinterpret what I have written - the point I am making is that I believe the argument in favour of single hooks here has gotten a a little myopic and that a view seemed to be forming here to dump all your treble hooks in favour of singles. Luke stated he did otherwise and so do I. I am not even espousing that trebles are superior but that there is a clear place for them.

if you believe that the baker is the rig for you, the you go for it.

You may think that the treble hook sitting under the belly only has one hook exposed. Firstly, you don't need to rig it this way as you can opt to rig it with two hooks exposed. I, however, rig it the traditional way but I have observed quite clearly over nearly ten years that it is not always the exposed hook point which you refer to which is the one that hooks the fish and the reason for this is that GTs often pick the time to hit the lure at the point at which the lure is not moving (between pops) and at this point, the treble is hanging straight down.

This is the reason why another way or rigging (developed by the French or Spanish I think) of using an assist hook off the towing point of a popper is proving to be successful. Nomad have recently picked this up from their new guide, Glanville. If you continue to reel the lure constantly without stopping, the assist hook is nearly always running down the side of the body with little hook point exposed but when you stop, it suddenly drops straight down and it very exposed.

If your reason for using singles is also driven by the damage to the fish argument, I am inclined to agree that I have seen more damage done by trailing trebles than singles but but I would point out that the worst damage I have seen has been done done by a single. If this is a concern, you can of course opt to simply use one hook off the belly and a spinner blade off the tail.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Janelle O'Connell

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 16, 2009, 11:14:04 AM
The answer defintely varies depending on who you speak to.  We have gotten to the stage that when we are outfitting someone for a trip we will contact the charter operator to ask what they prefer.  The majority of the charters still say they recommend trebles. Some will only recommend barbless hooks for experienced anglers.  The vast majority, if not 99% of our overseas customers use trebles.


Greg Burt

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 16, 2009, 12:48:28 PM
As we all should know, Nomad have a "Barbless single hooks are to be used at ALL times" policy, so it's a "horses for courses" as Luke mentioned, but also 'when in Rome do as the Romans do' ;D
Greg 'FFF' Burt

Stephen Polzin

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 16, 2009, 03:17:56 PM
trebles all the way for me.  Never been able to see a worthwhile benefit in singles. Everyone's got different ideas, use whatever gives you confidence.
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Kasey Leong

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 16, 2009, 06:00:13 PM
Trebles for me too - and set the hooks HARD. I actually resort to pointing the rod straight at the fish and yanking horizontally so that the rod doesn't absorb the force. I discussed this with LPB and the rationale is, sometimes a big fish will clamp down on a popper and swim away with it, taking line. However they can btie down on it with such force that if you don't really strike like a madman the hooks just swing freely, and when the fish gets bored it can just open up and let the whole thing go.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I have yet to cause my braid to burst.

Either way though, dropping some fish is just part of the game, even though it sucks  :(
Watashi wa kawaii scon class hetadesu bakadesu JooNya Poop Poop

Warwick Joyce

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Re: The singles vs trebles debate
March 16, 2009, 06:35:30 PM
Your right Kasey, Its the ones that get away that will bring you back another day.