Frictions knots for connecting your mainline to your leader

[Warwick Joyce]

Anyone who ties the FG knows as soon as it is tightened you know if it will hold or not.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Warwick.

Just on the one point I have snipped above... the main way I know if an FG is formed properly is seeing it dig into and grip the leader after the the big tighten. That does not happen with Fluoro.

Graham, never lose confidence!

Stu, thank you and that is a strong testament.

This must be the case in high poundage fluro, in the 50lb fc rock you can see the 30lb braid bite.
How close together are your wraps?
I might take some pics of knots with different lb for comparison later this arvo.

[Hayden Coleman]

Wow! thanks for the great replies. A good mate of mine says that you need a hard leader for the FG knot to work proply. I guess this statement depends a lot on the type of braid and thickness difference between the braid and mono. So far with the 150 ten x and 100lb Iron Braid(which is really 120 lb.. ive had it tested) i have not had one of the knots fail unless they were clearly shit to start with. Ive been able to snap the 10X at the hook before the not even looks like failing. Gotta hate getting whipped in the head with a bit of 150 lb.. lol.
I have been using a Resuto to finnish the knot and then also pulling the knot super tight by wrapping the leader round my foot n standing on it then wrapping the braid round my hand with a rag and swing on it hard as i can. What happens then is the leader near the resuto ends up with a mad wiggle in it! So i then grab the tail of the mono with pliers and pull it. This takes the wiggle out of the leader. I repeat this a few times until its looks good and tight, then cut the tail off.
So if i wanted to stick with the harder leader but just up the pounds a bit to say 180 or 200...where would i find leader like that? So far i havent been able to find anything heavy other then 10X. 

[Mark Harris]

Hi Hayden, I think your mate is definitely wrong. The whole principle of any friction knot is that is digs into the surface of the leader. Naturally, it will do that more easily on softer leader.

[Mark Harris]

So if i wanted to stick with the harder leader but just up the pounds a bit to say 180 or 200...where would i find leader like that? So far i havent been able to find anything heavy other then 10X.

Finding a hard mono leader to 200 lbs should not be that hard. The cheapo brands like Pioneer, Relix, Maguro etc all make it.
Jinkai is a good option - a lot of heavy trolling guys use this. Whilst it is not super hard it is not as soft as the premium Japanese shock leaders and a bit cheaper. You will find Jinkai at many online tackle stores in weights right up to 600 lbs.

[Hayden Coleman]

 Hi Mark..Yeh rite, i see your point. Although i have had a lot of sucess with the 10X and the FG knot. Also with 50lb FC 100 and 40lb braid. Im not sure why maybe it has something to do with the technique of tieing the knot. But based on what you guys have said, it seems that it is very important to have the strech of a soft leader so i will try tieing it with a 200lb.
Do you use crimps to your solid ring or tie a knot..?

Just red your last post... So if i find the hardest of the soft leaders ie; Jinki , pioneer ect in say 200lb and give that a try..
 

[Mark Harris]

Hayden, my usual set up is very simple - braid with FG knot to Leader which is uni-knotted to a swivel.

Braid -> Fg Knot to ->swivel ->split ring -> lure. No solid ring involved.

Some folks do crimp but I don't and prefer to trust in my uni knots.  With leaders 130 lbs and more I use a four turn uni knot.

[Sam Walker]

I've been trying the midknot out , on a mid-weight outfit for the mid sized GT's we get around Gove. YGK Nitlon PE4 and 60lb Black Magic leader, been out the last 3 days in a row and got a single GT each day, 8-12kg. So far I like it, fairly easy to tie and no tools needed.

[Andrew Susani]

Coincidentally I used exactly the same setup as Mark... but I have found that roughing up the end of the mono a tiny bit with 400 grade sandpaper, makes it easier to get a good tight "bite" on the half hitches of the FG.  Has anyone else tried this?

[Brandon Khoo]

There is no need to do that once you become experienced in tying the knot, Andrew although you have given me an idea re really hard mono.

Coincidentally I used exactly the same setup as Mark... but I have found that roughing up the end of the mono a tiny bit with 400 grade sandpaper, makes it easier to get a good tight "bite" on the half hitches of the FG.  Has anyone else tried this?

[Mark Harris]

Or perhaps that could even work on Fluoro?

[Warwick Joyce]

I'm not sure that would be a good idea, you need all the twists/loops all the way through the knot to pull tight. If you rough the leader you may find that the knot will bind at the start and not evenly right through. If its not even right through, loose loops will form and lead to knot failure.
Happy to be corrected though

[Brandon Khoo]

I was more concerned about whether roughing it up might damage the braid. You can see it when a FG pulls up tight.

I'm not sure that would be a good idea, you need all the twists/loops all the way through the knot to pull tight. If you rough the leader you may find that the knot will bind at the start and not evenly right through. If its not even right through, loose loops will form and lead to knot failure.
Happy to be corrected though

[Mark Harris]

If the sanding is very light and just takes off some of the shiny, slick surface of the leader, I don't see any major issues.  With soft, supple leader though, it seems completely unnecessary.

[Andrew Susani]

Yeah the sanding is very light, all it does is make the leader opaque and provide a little more friction between the friction wraps and the leader.  I do pull the half hitch twists up very tight every couple of twists anyway.  I find it looks like a better knot but I guess time will tell.

[Luke Wyrsta]

I think you could end up changing the refractive properties of the shock leader, and it's appearance in the water.

My personal opinion, is that if you don't have confidence in a knot without doing that, then simply don't tie it or use it. Just as much as heating the end of the tag to form a blob, if the fundamentals of the knot aren't right - it will simply fail.