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Kasey Leong

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with all this talk of gargantuan GTs, I remain firmly of the view that any GT over 30kgs is a big fish and an excellent capture.

But is it.... Monster-Class?  ;) ;D ;D ;D
Watashi wa kawaii scon class hetadesu bakadesu JooNya Poop Poop

Brandon Khoo

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Yes, absolutely.

There seems to be a significant difference in how fish fight from different locations and at different times of the year. There can also be huge differences in how specific fish seem to fight.

I had one of our members here who recently went to Farquhar say that he found the fish that he encountered there didn't fight anywhere near as hard as the fish he encountered in New Caledonia. I have over many trips found that fish in NC fight simply fight harder than the ones in the Coral Sea on average but in mid-winter, they go insane there. It is at the point where Malcolm and I are literally afraid to go after GTs there in the middle of winter!

Obviously, some fish are simply in better condition that others. On rare occasions, you will get a GT that is shaped almost like a Pacu. I have only caught a small number of these over the years but on every occasions, the fish has given me an absolute belting fighting something like a 100% harder than a normal fish. I call these soul-breakers. The biggest fish I got shaped like this was in the low forties and I almost had to give up. There is a photo on the forum of me lying flat on the deck after this fish! One of our Singaporean anglers (Robin Loi, I think) got a really big fish that was this shape a couple of years back. I can't even imagine how hard that thing would have gone.

Interestingly, Pacu are regarded among the hardest fighting fish of all. I've never caught one but hope to one day.




Brandon,

Have you found some GT's fight rediculously harder than others....for reasons I am unsure of.

I remeber one fish at Elusive of around 30kg I got with Damon that they were calling for a monster as it fought so stupidly hard and really gave me a serving.I was seriously tired after that fish.

This one fought way harder than the one I caught a smidgen shy of 40kg........

Like you said many variables come into it.

Pete
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Graham Scott

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Very interesting discussion,
I mentioned some years ago that it would be nice to completely move away from weight as an indicator of size and use length (yes I know there are fat and thin fish...but as just put, weight isn't the sole indicator of either angler skill or GT strength).
Barramundi are no longer described by weight, only length, as is arguably Australia's most popular fish, the humble flathead. I caught my pb flattie a couple of weeks ago in front of the house, 88cm.
My personal view is weight was a reasonable benchmark before catch and release as weight is not an indicator of fight or skill, it's an indicator of the amout of food, which was the highest priorities a generation or so ago.

I am also very pleased with this thread as I won't be embarrased when I post some 15kg (sorry 100cm) GT's from Shoalwater Bay

Brandon Khoo

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I've been done over by 15kg fish at Shoalwater!  :'(
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Graham Scott

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Proof you don't need skill, this one caught in Shoalwater Bay on;
R2S dumbell
7 foot Ugly stick boat rod
Sealine bull 6000hi
65lb no name braid
80lb leader

One of the first GT's I ever caught...before I realized how difficult it is (and yes still using the sealine bull)

Mark Harris

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Some really insightful stuff cropping up in this discussion thread.

I am pleased to read I am not the only one who gets done over occasionally by a relatively small GT  ;) .

Brandon's points about the shape of fish and their conditioning mirrors my own experiences. I have long battled on about how GTs that live their lives in a strong current environment seem to be better conditioned and fight harder than those from a gentler, lagoon-type environment. I strongly believe that to be the case. Add to that the effect that the actual current can have when you are fighting the fish, and you have the toughest environment in which to catch GTs I think: very well-conditioned broad-shouldered (sometimes very round) GTs which turn into a strong current which is running away from you.

Not very long ago I caught a 40 kg class (sorry Graham, I mean 121 cm  ;) ) fish in exactly those circumstances and a minute or so into the fight I was convinced it had to be over 50, as were the crew as they watched what it did to me and the what it did to my rod.  The double whammy effect of a strong fish and a strong current can be enormous.

Brandon, I actually long to catch a real Pacu-shaped GT :).  Just had a flick through photos and this is probably the roundest GT I have ever caught. And from the state of me in the picture you can see how bloody hard it was!


Nick Bowles

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Morning, Hope everyone is well! I totally agree with Brandon and the comments in this thread. We are right in the middle of this with weights, lengths sizes, girths etc. It has almost become an obsession if you come to Southern Oman it is only a successful trip if you have caught a "50kg" GT, it is almost like the adventure of a trip and sport have been lost to some extent. We are very very lucky to be in a place that has amazing fish and yes there is insane fishing with enormous fish. But I always tell clients even when they get a small fish 10kgs that a GT is a GT and be happy that you have had a privilege of catching an awesome fish. As often there is a look of distaste at catching a small fish or a comment thrown that does not make me to happy. As an operator we don;t have 50kg GT on tap and have to work hard for fish and use all of our knowledge and a big portion of luck, so when we catch any fish we are happy and know we are doing our job right.

I think with modern techniques, unbelievable fishing equipment and experience we have been able to land bigger fish than what we could have done when we started 8 years ago. But also I think for us the focus is selling an experience and adventure rather than selling trophy fish. Oman is a magical place with history and an amazing culture, which is something special to enjoy along with the fishing, no one in GT fishing circles new about Oman till a few years ago when we started to catch GTs in Musandam Northern Oman and the flood gates where opened and now it one of the top destinations (at least in my biased opinion....) but as with everywhere there is a honeymoon period and this will fade over time as with everything new but we will continue to promote our sport and sustainability to ensure that we still catch good fish and provide a good service . There have been many queries about sizes, weights, pictures, camera angles and it has all raised doubts about a fantastic trip, rather than just saying it was a great trip we now get queries on camera angles, weights etc. This has taken away from the true reason for a fishing trip which is adventure and getting out on the water. If a trophy fish is caught then it is cream on the top of a great trip.

I think it is a great idea to post the measured lengths and possibly girth of a fish and readers can make their own decision on weight. I think if a fish is weighted then you can put the exact size. Personally I don;t like weighing fish as there is a big risk factor to the fish (especially hanging or with sling) and also it takes away time for taking photos of the fish with the client which at the end of the day is more important in my opinion and lasts forever. It is not easy to move a big fish around on a boat sometimes with current, waves, wind and then to put the fish safely onto a clients lap for pictures and then to release, this is all time sensitive to the fish.

I'll be fishing in Tokara next month and am very interested in Fukui-sans method on Big Dipper of weighing fish on a flat scale, this is an easy and accurate way of doing it with minimal damage to the fish and can be done as soon as a fish is loaded. We will try set up something similar next season to weigh trophy fish if the clients wants this rather than more pictures.

I have just finished a 5 day trip in Musandam and we did not get any big fish but we caught a good number and had a good bunch of guys on the trip and it was one of my best trips this year because it was good fun with a lot of banter, jokes, hard fishing, good food and most of all good experience! Plus we were done over more times by small fish than our last month in Southern Oman with all the big fish!! Just shows a GT of any size can humble any fisherman no matter how experienced or how new to the sport!

We will obviously keep posting fish we catch as they are amazing specimens and we are proud to have caught them but as I said before a GT is a GT and any size fish is worthy of taking the time to post about it and to also give a story not just pictures so we can all enjoy everyone elses adventures and learn new techniques or from other fishermans experiences.

At the end of the day I post pictures and try write full reports to give people an idea of what we are doing, how we are doing things and to try promote our sport. I don't post because we have caught "50kg" GTs, I post because we have done a trip, not all trips are successful but all trips should be an adventure and the good ol saying "a bad day on the water is better than a good day in the office!" is the best and easiest way to put it!

Cheers,
Nick



Mark Harris

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Excellent, intelligent post Nick and a bravo for you.

You guys who have put in the work and are now lucky enough to do this for living, are in a position to provide so many insights. You see more fish, more anglers and more equipment than the rest of us hobby sportsmen.

The obsession with big fish can certainly get a bit wearing, and I think the points have been well made already in this thread. Folks wanting some idea of the weight of a fish is though completely understandable, and I doubt that will ever change.

Over the years, I have been fortunate enough to fish with a lot of beginners and to play some part in them catching their first GTs.  My attitude to that has always been one of huge congratulations and very well done. It does not matter if the fish is 10 kgs.

Measuring is great and I now make a point of trying to get the metrics of any fish which is not unduly stressed.  That being said, the welfare of the fish always comes first in my book, and not just GTs.  I want to successfully release a tuna or grouper every bit as much as a GT.

I mentioned before that I really hope members here are not being put off posting their trip reports because they did not catch big fish.  I suspect some are. Quite a few reports do go up which elicit almost no comment/replies and that must be a bit discouraging.

Thanks for the insights again Nick. It will be very interesting to get your take on flat-bed weighing after you have seen the Big Dipper in action.
Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 04:21:54 PM by Mark Harris

Brandon Khoo

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Mark, here is one of those really broad pacu shaped fish. Pity I didn't get a side on picture as the fish was was quite extraordinarily thick-set
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Sachin Chaudhry

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Only way to know for sure is to weigh it but we know that is not an option all the time unless reliable scales are on the boat but on boat weighing in my opinion is not accurate and have seen examples of this on wahoo and YFT. If it looks big and gave the angler a hell of a fight then thats the reward right there. I personally feel that fish is around 45 to 50kgs but its all relative as I think once you get past the 30kg mark in certain terrain fish will do you over. Just my 2c

Mark Harris

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That looks like a real brute Brandon.  Was it New Cal?  The rounder they are, the more trouble you are in!

Brandon Khoo

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NC, Mark and this one hurt! Fish got me almost down to the metal in one run and then thankfully, it changed direction. It was so round it was a really odd shape when lying on the deck. I got a fish the next day that was at least 5cms longer but felt noticeably lighter.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Andre van Wyk

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Some really brilliantly thought out and explained posts in this thread... Brandon and Nick in particular.. well thought out, well explained, and from solid real world experience....

Thanks for sharing boys...

Of course all of us are out there to chase the biggest fish possible ( except perhaps Brandon in his mission for the smallest GT on the biggest lure!!  8) ) but this quest for big fish should never over shadow our primary quest when we fish... to enjoy ourselves... cause thats why we do it... otherwise we'd be playing bloody golf or lawn bowls or something equally ridiculous for our kicks...

Nick as you so brilliantly put, a 10kg GT is should still be seen as a trophy, to both experienced and inexperienced alike, as the pleasure and priviledge of tangling with these pitbulls of the ocean is one to truly be treasured, no matter what their size...

I am of course still on my quest for a Monster Class GT... and that will never cease... but inbetween, I certainly hope and pray I never lose the sheer mad crazy explosive joy I get from every single fish that crashes my lure... be it a popper, stickbait, jig, plastic, iron, fly, swimbait, bucktail or whatever else happens to be on the end of my leader....

To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth...

Mark Harris

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Of course all of us are out there to chase the biggest fish possible ( except perhaps Brandon in his mission for the smallest GT on the biggest lure!!  8) )

Ah yes! I had forgotten all about that. Brandon, it used to be that your avatar reminded us daily of this quest :)

Jay Burgess

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Of course all of us are out there to chase the biggest fish possible ( except perhaps Brandon in his mission for the smallest GT on the biggest lure!!  8) )

Ah yes! I had forgotten all about that. Brandon, it used to be that your avatar reminded us daily of this quest :)

Maybe Brandon needs to change his avatar to 'Miniature Class Anglers'  ;D