FG and PR Knots

[Brandon Khoo]

if you are not going to burn the tip, I think it would be a good idea to leave a short tag end on the leader to ensure that a tiny slippage isn't fatal. Until the criss-crosses bite in, there will always be a bit of slippage so you need to watch out for this.  I very rarely have to do that because I carry spare spools with pre-tied leaders on them.

I don't think two inches is even necessary for a PR knot. I've tested the knot down to a one inch segment and it didn't slip but I have to admit that I use about two inches myself - nice to have some safety margin. Obviously you will need to test your own knot to establish what you can get away with

[Jamie Moir]

2) burn over the tag of the leader and the tag of the braid with a lighter.

Turns out they're totally unnecessary, but if it makes you feel better about the know then go ahead!

Sportfishing mag did  a knot challenge awhile back, and the winner was an FG knot, but with a tapered mono tag!

Check the article here; Sports Fishing Knot Challenge

[Luke Wyrsta]

2) burn over the tag of the leader and the tag of the braid with a lighter.

Turns out they're totally unnecessary, but if it makes you feel better about the know then go ahead!

Sportfishing mag did  a knot challenge awhile back, and the winner was an FG knot, but with a tapered mono tag!

Check the article here; Sports Fishing Knot Challenge

LOL. I wouldn't go trusting any magazine article - as reputable as publication as they may be!

I think it's best to trust one's own preferences and ability to tie knots.

Never heard of a tapered FG, and have not seen one tied like that.

Not all knot tiers are made equal.

[Luke Wyrsta]

Doubled FG too...

[Gareth Branicki]

defiantly dont blieve in any knot being 100 percent brandon i put the braid breaking down to some wear and the the finish i put on the end of it . Brandon using the 80 lb solid which diameter is somwhere between pe 7 and 8  the half hitches on the briad look out of place and felt odd since i am using such a heavy leader 170 lb also when i have tried testing the half hitches there seem to be the first to go mayby need to tighten them up a lot more.
 
Peter i did use goves and tightend the half hitches  after the wraps till i was blue defiantly makes an improvement.

cheers

[Ken Best]

I like to pull my FG's up tight after the hitches around both leader and braid. Its a confidence thing I guess, I know it won't slip.
After this I do the hitches around the braid mainline with no mushroom.
I now use this knot for barramundi using 30lb braid to 60lb leader. A bit finicky to tie but works a treat.

Ken

[Jamie Moir]

LOL. I wouldn't go trusting any magazine article - as reputable as publication as they may be!

I think it's best to trust one's own preferences and ability to tie knots.

Never heard of a tapered FG, and have not seen one tied like that.

Not all knot tiers are made equal.

I didn't trust the mag, I did my own testing. Out the front of my house, hanging scuba weights in a bucket. I found that once I had the crosswraps done, the half hitches etc were completely irrelevant to know strength, right up to the point of only going a couple to stop the crosswraps from coming undone.

I agree its best that you learn how to tie a knot well and use it.

Just adding to Brandon's comment about anecdotal evidence that the mono tag end ball is unnecessary.

[Luke Wyrsta]

LOL. I wouldn't go trusting any magazine article - as reputable as publication as they may be!

I think it's best to trust one's own preferences and ability to tie knots.

Never heard of a tapered FG, and have not seen one tied like that.

Not all knot tiers are made equal.

I didn't trust the mag, I did my own testing. Out the front of my house, hanging scuba weights in a bucket. I found that once I had the crosswraps done, the half hitches etc were completely irrelevant to know strength, right up to the point of only going a couple to stop the crosswraps from coming undone.

I agree its best that you learn how to tie a knot well and use it.

Just adding to Brandon's comment about anecdotal evidence that the mono tag end ball is unnecessary.

Sure.

You may want to add a shock load to that test. A test such as yours is only one part of an adequate test.

[Mark Harris]

Do you find that burning the leader to a mushroom head necessary Brandon ? It's very tricky to do it on a rocky boat. The skipper in NZ didn't really bother with burning the leader and he said it doesn't really make much of a difference as long as the half hitches and wraps are tight.
Last thing you want to do is burn the mainline braid and have to redo the knot all over again 

Also is 2 inch of wraps on the PR knot sufficient ?

I think both burning the leader to the mushroom head and doing the final braid cut after the last half hitches is best done with a Bouz braid cutter. This little gizmo allows precision with fire in a confident way - very different to losing a normal lighter. And it is totally windproof for use on a boat. I am usually not one for fancy gizmos but I never go fishing without this one.

[Peter Childs]

Gareth, you don't have to crank up each half hitch itself, the idea is to set the entire knot after the half hitches are done (just keep them firm)!  You gotta remember the knot is designed to slip slightly (very slightly) in order to bite into the leader.

Luke, I have had one or two FG's "back out" without burning the end of the leader over, obviously not tightened enough.  This has followed repeated casting (Ie loading and unloading the line) without hookups (more intense pressure).  This hasn't happened to me with the leader end burned over. 

The way the knot is structured, if the first wraps on the leader are pushed toward the half hitch end of the knot (which is the direction of pressure the guides can exert on the wraps during casting) the knot can slide.  I've noticed, the longer the wrap section that is tied, the more prone these first wraps are to sliding, due to the fact that friction at the hitch end of a 'long' knot prevents the first wraps from being tensioned by the tensioning process!

As such, I've found a 'long' knot, potentially less reliable than a short knot (I preface that by saying an innadequately tensioned 'long' knot)!

For what its worth, I know tie about 1/2 inch of wraps in PE6 (3/4 inch in PE8), 8 full hitches (one way), 6 mainline hitches (alternating) and burn the leader end and braid tag (the braid tag is just to stop it fraying) - haven't had any issues since!

[Mark Harris]

I've noticed, the longer the wrap section that is tied, the more prone these first wraps are to sliding, due to the fact that friction at the hitch end of a 'long' knot prevents the first wraps from being tensioned by the tensioning process!

As such, I've found a 'long' knot, potentially less reliable than a short knot (I preface that by saying an innadequately tensioned 'long' knot)!

I noticed the exact same thing Peter. With PE8 and PE10 line, any more than 12 weaves/wraps in a FG seems to be superfluous as the first ones seem to slip. With lighter lines though, it seems to be more like 15.

[Luke Wyrsta]

Agreed. Mine rarely exceed 1.5 inches.

Brandon also showed me that he prefers a smaller FG.

[Gavin Ng]

so you guys are only doing 12-15 wraps for the fg? are you pulling them tight and making the braid gram in every 5 turns or so? I try to keep the tension on as much as possible when doing the wraps, but i am finding it difficult to get the whole knot to grab onto the leader.

after the half hitches, i will pull the leader and the braid in opposite directions, the braid then grabs into the leader, but only the last 2/3 grabs, the first part of the knot looks the same as originally wrapped. is this an issue? does the whole knot need to grab? if so, what am I doing wrong?

Cheers

[Brandon Khoo]

exactly what I was going to respond with. A shock load is different test altogether.
I actually tried this for a while using lighter gear and while it worked, I had one instance where a big strike saw me lose the leader and lure.
In any event, go with what you're comfortable using. If you trust it, by all means, use it but for me, I'll continue to have the little burnt knob.

LOL. I wouldn't go trusting any magazine article - as reputable as publication as they may be!

I think it's best to trust one's own preferences and ability to tie knots.

Never heard of a tapered FG, and have not seen one tied like that.

Not all knot tiers are made equal.

I didn't trust the mag, I did my own testing. Out the front of my house, hanging scuba weights in a bucket. I found that once I had the crosswraps done, the half hitches etc were completely irrelevant to know strength, right up to the point of only going a couple to stop the crosswraps from coming undone.

I agree its best that you learn how to tie a knot well and use it.

Just adding to Brandon's comment about anecdotal evidence that the mono tag end ball is unnecessary.

Sure.

You may want to add a shock load to that test. A test such as yours is only one part of an adequate test.

[Mark Harris]

12 weaved wraps for an FG yes Gavin. That's enough I believe. I tighten 'casually' every 3 weaves, so four times.

How many half hitches are doing before the BIG tighten?  I do 3 or 4 only then a gut-wrenching tighten before doing the rest of the half hitches and another big pull. If you do that the weaved section as well as the first few half hitches should tighten noticeably and really grip into the leader.

Different folks will have their own little variations on the precision of tying an FG but the principle is always the same.