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Brandon Khoo

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 07:52:51 AM

Hi Peter

This is really hard to explain but I will try. I don't know if we are just playing with semantics here when we talk about rolling. When you work a gamma and it does that characteristic slash across the surface, the lure actually rolls to its side at the point it turns. As you continue to pull it through the water, it then slashes across to the other side. At the point it rolls, a predator underneath can actually see the sides of the lure.

If the lure doesn't roll, the gamma wouldn't have that sharp slashing action. When you have a direct connection, the action is sharper as you have a more direct connection to the lure so when you pull on it, it reacts directly. When you have a swivel, the lure will be permitted to continue to roll a bit more than if you have a direct connection.

All gammas roll but the bigger ones roll more in my opinion. You should see a 250! I actually believe the rolling action is one of the major factors in its success. As you would know, the only fish which turn to the side are those that are injured. I think the gamma mimics this very well.

I hope my explanation is understandable. As I said, its really hard to explain.


Brandon, do you mean that it is supposed to roll? Or do you mean that the direct connection prevents it from rolling?
I think tha Gamma 200 is rolling quite much (at least when I work it! :) ), where as the gamma 140 that Mr. Konishi is working in the Carpenter video doesn't seem to roll at all. It just wobbles which I do prefer over the rolling action.

Thanks,

Peter

I often use a swivel with Gammas just for convenience sake when changing lures. I do believe you get a better and sharper action by tying it directly on though. The reason for this is that the action of the gamma is such that when it rolls, a directly tied connection will see the lure react more sharply versus a swivel.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Peter Olesen

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 10:11:47 AM
Hi Brandon

Thank you! I understand...

But sorry: What I meant by rolling was that when I work the Gamma 200, it literally rolls 360 degrees. In the middle of the motion having the belly pointed towards the sky like a girl on the beach ;)

What am I doing wrong? Pulling too hard? The Gamma is under water during the hole motion. It's the same with all the hooks I've tried: Recorder 7/0, Recorder 6/0 and Owner ST66 5/0

Thank you for your kind help,
Peter
"If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter." Mark Twain

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 12:54:04 PM
If your lure is turning upside down, then what is happening is that you are not getting the Gamma swimming at all. What you are doing is getting the line too taut before pulling on it. Srface stickbaits need slack in the line when you oull on it.

What I would suggest you work on is in intentionally having a degree of slack line when you are pulling on the lure.

It isn't anything to do with the hooks.
If it swims; I want to catch it!

Kurt de Villiers

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 02:38:35 PM
Just to throw another one in the mix I run braid, Bimini, catspaw to 200lb mono single, swivel, 10 or 11 owner split.

Travis,

You mention Bimini-catspaw-200lb mono.....
For this to work, are you fishing with wind on leaders (Dacron spliced loop) like that in game fishing?

Regards,
Kurt

Travis Heaps

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 04:36:03 PM
Just to throw another one in the mix I run braid, Bimini, catspaw to 200lb mono single, swivel, 10 or 11 owner split.

Travis,

You mention Bimini-catspaw-200lb mono.....
For this to work, are you fishing with wind on leaders (Dacron spliced loop) like that in game fishing?

Regards,
Kurt

No Kurt, much like you catspaw to a twisted leader...I loop the mono, catspaw too it then trim the short end of the mono to a very short tag and melt the end to a smooth knob with a lighter.  Works well, caught plenty of GTs, no trouble when casting, let's me run single and I don't need to learn friction knots ;)

Kurt de Villiers

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 06:26:40 PM
What loop knot are you tying in 200lb mono?

Andy Rowe

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 07:10:33 PM
Hi Travis, sorry if I am missing something in the description.. so your burnt leader tag is doubled and pointing to rod tip rather than back to spool right?

Just to throw another one in the mix I run braid, Bimini, catspaw to 200lb mono single, swivel, 10 or 11 owner split.

Travis,

You mention Bimini-catspaw-200lb mono.....
For this to work, are you fishing with wind on leaders (Dacron spliced loop) like that in game fishing?

Regards,
Kurt

No Kurt, much like you catspaw to a twisted leader...I loop the mono, catspaw too it then trim the short end of the mono to a very short tag and melt the end to a smooth knob with a lighter.  Works well, caught plenty of GTs, no trouble when casting, let's me run single and I don't need to learn friction knots ;)
Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 07:25:32 PM by Andy Rowe
Set the ray to GeeT

Peter Olesen

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 07:11:33 PM
Ha ha - if the line was not slack, I wouldn't be able to get it under water at all.

Cheers

If your lure is turning upside down, then what is happening is that you are not getting the Gamma swimming at all. What you are doing is getting the line too taut before pulling on it. Srface stickbaits need slack in the line when you oull on it.

What I would suggest you work on is in intentionally having a degree of slack line when you are pulling on the lure.

It isn't anything to do with the hooks.
"If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter." Mark Twain

Travis Heaps

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 08:04:25 PM
Hi Andy and Kurt - here's a little write up i did of the knot I'm talking about.  Yeah Andy the tag is pointing back to the rod tip, I've never had it get hung up though.

http://www.gtpopping.com/forum/index.php?topic=3565.msg30395#msg30395

Kurt de Villiers

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 08:34:12 PM
just curious to what loop knot you manage to tie in 200lb that doesn't attempt to rip off your guides/eyes every cast...
i've tied several variations, and all seem rather 'intimidating as it passes through the last 3-4 eyes.

cheers on the thread link though,
regards
kurt

Mark Harris

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 08:38:11 PM
Peter,

Brandon has given some excellent advice there.  I also suspect you are pulling too hard.

Gammas are the most unforgiving of stickbaits and practice makes perfect. Just keep at it.

Personally, I don't like using them when there is chop in the water and/or a serious cross current - it all becomes too hard, for me at least.  At those times I reach for something much more forgiving like a Craftbait Realbait.

Ha ha - if the line was not slack, I wouldn't be able to get it under water at all.

Cheers

If your lure is turning upside down, then what is happening is that you are not getting the Gamma swimming at all. What you are doing is getting the line too taut before pulling on it. Srface stickbaits need slack in the line when you oull on it.

What I would suggest you work on is in intentionally having a degree of slack line when you are pulling on the lure.

It isn't anything to do with the hooks.

Peter Olesen

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 08:41:38 PM
Thanks guys - much appreciated!
"If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter." Mark Twain

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 09:31:22 PM
actually, it is a lot more compact than you might think. I had nothing to do so I decided to tie a couple and do a destruction test on them. The connection is strong as all hell. I've attached a photo of the connection next to a FG knot. The only issue I can see with it is the direction of the tag end and that it takes me longer to tie than a FG knot does



If it swims; I want to catch it!

Kurt de Villiers

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 09:37:09 PM
thats what i needed! Thanks.

its not a 'loop knot' you tie in the mono, its just a loop and the catspaw keeps it that way.
kind of similiar to how i join single strand wite to a fly leader tippet section... put a loop in the single strand, feed the tippet through the loop and then nail knot it.

cheers

Brandon Khoo

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Re: Leader Setup For Stickbaits
January 30, 2012, 09:41:31 PM
unless I've got it wrong, there is no loop knot per se. It's just a loop.
If it swims; I want to catch it!